Had a near incident today

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It seems as if everyone here has forgotten that there are road rage killings and random attacks by insane people all the time. I remember a while back, an old guy honked at a bunch of punks that were hanging around in a street that he had to drive down, who wouldn't let him through. This mob of people dragged him out of his car, and beat, kicked, stomped him to death right out in the street, in front of god and everyone, because he had the audacity to ask them to get out of his way.

Is it likely that a 350 pound scary looking guy who gets furious about a line cutter will drag you out of your car and inflict serious injury on you? No, it isn't likely to happen.

Does it happen? Lord yes, it happens. It happens at stores, and even school cafeterias. What is smart about assuming that everything will be fine?

If I had a brain fart and committed a social offense like this, and godzilla got out of his vehicle yelling at me, I would be preparing for the worst. screwing up in traffic is not justification for aassault, and I'm not going to risk being beaten, stabbed, or even shot because some unbalanced baloney loaf wanted to make an example out of me.

This guy was out of line. cutting in line is no big deal. If driver #2 did this because he saw some skinny little white guy in the driver's seat, it was racist and a violation of the skinny little white guy's civil rights.

Part of me is wishing that today he does that same stunt to a car full of bangers who get out and cut him up a little to teach him some manners.

You guys seem to be focusing only on the failures on driver #1, and entirely blowing off what he did right.

You are totally ignoring the fact that driver # 2 began the confrontation, and appeared to be ready and willing to escalate it to physical violence.

There is no room for racism in a concealed carry situation, but profiling isn't racist, no matter how much the profiled races scream about it.

For those who question the legal grounds, I would like to say that you are way off base. Driver #2's behavior verges on assault. Assault charges DO NOT allow for provocation as justifying it. If he had opened the door and even placed a finger on driver #1's flesh, that would be battery. At that time, with a yelling 350 pound behemoth grabbing a person by the shirt, any non-prejudiced jury would have to acquit.
 
Thank you all for your comments. "Over re-act?" I apologize and went to the back of the line. How is that over reacting? I move the gun and holster from view on the counsel and hid them. That was a positive reaction. Keeping the gun hidden in my right hand behind seat was a safety preventitive, not confrontational action. Also, if this "man" would have grabbed the door open he would have been right on me. I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to shake hands. I wasn't going to wait until he crushed my skull. There would have been no legal, logical reason for him to breach my vehicle! Any reasoable person would have had reasonable fear of great bodily harm considering his size, anger and ability. But still I would not at all wanted to be forced to shoot and deal with all that anymore.
 
This reminds me of a recent murder in amarillo where a man and his family were getting gas at a Sam's store and he was parked a few car lengths back waiting for a pump to open up that had the nozzle on the correct side. A lady pulled up, not knowing what he was doing, and pulled into an open spot and just stretched the hose over her car. The man confronted her for cutting in line and after a loud argument he chased her down the interstate and ran her off of the road, killing her in the crash. You never know a persons intent when they approach you. When you are smaller, weaker, or otherwise inferior to them I say use whatever means necessary to defend your life.
 
from the sound of it the guy just came up to you and told you that there was a line and you about pulled a gun on him. Maybe you shouldn't carry concealed

before you shoot somebody. Only way my pistol is coming out of the holster is if
I believe that im in immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm, or some

one else is. A man coming up to me telling me that I cut a line doesn't cut it.
 
Some of these comments are just bizzarr. The " man did not just "come up and tell me" I thought I made that clear! He emarched up shoulders shrugged, fist closed with blood shot eyes and an obvious fury and shouted at me. Then stared me down for a significant length of time in order to appear intimidating! Helllo!! Hence the ccapitalized words! You tell me I shouldn't have a ccw because I showed restraint and de esculated the situation with a non- confrontational attitude? What the '. I hope some you don't either wind up in a self defense scenirio it would be ashame to see a clp holder beat and shot with his own gun! And the use of the word man with quotations is because yes anyone who acts like that in public is less of a man. They have no class or patience.what if he acted like that towards a 30 year old house wife with a toddler in the car. This guy uses confrontation and intimadation towars the public when he gets "mad". Like charlie brown good grief
 
By the way Nhmarine, that is why I did NOT shoot him. Did you read mypost? Now if he Had open the door to attack then it would be different. Right?
 
One thing comes to mind, you could face prison for bringing a gun to an fistfight! Even if a fight would have escilated. The force he used wasn't equal to the force you were prepared to use. Alot of states would have hung you out to dry on that action. No matter how big he was. Carying a gun is only as good as the training of the person using it. Taking a ccw class only covers one part of personal defense. the first part is the person. When in a fight you still have to fight. One wrong pull of a gun and say by to your family for a long time! He had the best option, drive off!
 
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I don't know about Michigan. I do know there's been at least one case in Florida, a state where Castle Doctrine attaches to occupied vehicles, and where there is also a Stand Your Ground law, where a driver shot a road rager and was not charged.

Disparity of force, plus screamed racial slurs, as I recall. I don't recall anything about the dead road rager having been armed, just larger, younger, and aggressive.

So I'm not so sure some of the claims here about the inevitability of facing charges are on the mark.

That said, I agree with those who said that if the OP had time to prepare a weapon, he had time to drive off, and should have done so.
 
Pezo, I get what you're saying. In general walking up to someone's car in an ATM line is hazardous to one's health.

Back when i was in high school, a buddy and I were going out for the evening, so I stopped by an ATM to get some cash for...fruit juice...Got $, drove away.

Realized a few minutes down the road that I had forgotten my ATM card in the machine, so I turn around, but get stuck at a traffic light and there is a line at the ATM now. So my buddy gets out and goes running over to check for it b4 the card "disappeared." The lady at the ATM was very very scared. And the large gentleman (rather chivalrous) in the pickup behind her in line exited his vehicle with a tire iron and a .44 mag.

He hit the deck, and I got there a few seconds later - we explained and all was well, but he came very close to biting it that night.

Good control, decent prep, poor observation though:) - people take their lines very seriously
 
Pezo your right, sorry to insult you. I wasn't there to see what exactly happen. Thanks for sharing your story, makes everyone think what they would do in this situation and prepares them if this does happen to them.
 
Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Now you enhance your story with "bloodshot eyes" and "fist closed" and "obvious fury" when previously he just looked angry. You couldn't possibly tell that his eyes were bloodshot by glancing in your rearview mirror. While he was standing there "staring you down", why weren't you busy moving your car? Could it be because you were holding a revolver in your right hand?

It still sounds like a case of reaching for your gun when there were a number of better options, like paying attention and not being "out of line" in the first place. Try not to panic when the little kids dressed like zombies show up at your door in about 10 days. They're not there to eat you.
 
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The crystal clear clarity of 20 / 20 hindsight

Just a general comment; Lighten up Francis!

So far I've seen the OP accused of everything from drastically over reacting to blatant racism.

None of us were there.

What are my take aways from the OP's post?
Lock my doors
Be respectfully apologetic
Be prepared should the incident escalate, despite my best efforts to diffuse it.

Two out of three ain't bad.

Thanks for sharing; nothing like an angry mob with tar torches, pitch forks and scythes to keep you on your toes.
 
Archer9505,

You missed one... the most important one.... Leave before there IS a situation.

If you are aware of something that you believe is about to happen that is serious enough to warrant having a gun in your hand for ANY reason and you have a way out, the correct action is LEAVE.

I, for one, am part of no "angry mob" but I'm also not an "attaboy, way to go" back slapper either, when there were serious mistakes made.
 
Spacecoast, buddy READ my post. He was staring me down facing into the drivers window. I am sitting in driver seat. He marched up to my cargo van which does not allow use of the rear view. I saw him through my side view approaching. He made way to my drivers window. Why would he stop at the rear of my vehicle? As far as driving away? Its difficult sometimes admittely to type every detail in great perception. I had atm cars in front of me and a curb at the right. He was at the drivers window. So I would have had to steer towards and into his body to go that way. I could have backed up but would that not be potentially interpreted as trying to run him over. This man walked up to my window in a public place. I guess its my typing abilities or the "you woild have to have been there thing" because some of you just don't get it. Thank you to those who rea and tried to understand my story. God bless.
 
Good Point

If you are aware of something that you believe is about to happen that is serious enough to warrant having a gun in your hand for ANY reason and you have a way out, the correct action is LEAVE.
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Agreed.
 
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oops made a mistake and got in a line oops sorry mr, I will move and go to the end of the line, thank you for helping me out.

That stops most folks right there. Hard to be upset with a guy knows he did wrong and wants to correct it right away. No gun needed. Glad you didnt shoot him, some guys just look mean as heck, but they are teddy bears when you get to know em.
 
Pezo did not display his weapon; he defused the situation by apologizing and leaving; he admitted his error. For narrative purposes here, he made the politically incorrect mistake of identifying the other guy by race. I hope that he would not have fired if he had been pulled out of his vehicle because then he would be involved with the criminal justice system which would have left him ruined financially and emotionally even if he won. He probably would have lost his job and would have difficulty finding another. Why? Now his is controversial. So, when do you shoot is a difficult question, and the answer varies by situation.

If one reads government crime statistics, he sees that some ethnic groups make up a large per cent of the nation's prison population despite their having minority status. This sad fact glares when homicide statistics are examined. I have no doubt that discrimination by the majority over the last 130 years is the primary causitive factor. That said, the wise man will be observant yet practice restraint.
 
That stops most folks right there. Hard to be upset with a guy knows he did wrong and wants to correct it right away. No gun needed. Glad you didnt shoot him, some guys just look mean as heck, but they are teddy bears when you get to know em.
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Good god, people. Now this dude is a "teddy bear" in disguise as an angry monster who's jumped out of his car and is loudly and angrily confronting a poor,confused dork of some sort that just cut in an atm line? If it had been betty white, maybe the teddy bear would have been okay with her cutting in line? maybe a cute teenage girl?

The one fact that we know, at least as reported, is that this guy left his vehicle in a threatening manner, and reacted inappropriately in a situation that didn't justify it.

For some reason, it isn't setting well with you guys as a group that this fella in the van made a mistake, was confronted by a hostile person who did not make his intent clear, and he did the smart thing, by putting his hand on his weapon, in case the guy who may have just left cell block 9 was actually there to steal his money and van, and shoot him in the back of the head. It was an atm, near a bank, and even in broad daylight, there are robberies and murders at banks.

No, everything about this doesn't seem kosher to me, but NOBODY was shot at and the weapon was not displayed. No threats were made. a peaceable resolution was reached. Congrats to the op for not doing all the stupid things, such as pointing the gun in his face and going mel gibson on him.

It could have gone very differently. This guy might have spent his entire childhood being beaten up and thrown to the back of the lunch line, bulked himself up because he was sick of being picked on, and suddenly recognized a random person as the foot ball star that used to flush his head in the toilet.

Rage incidents happen quickly. They escalate, and take a long time to cool down. It is referred to as "explosiveness," because these people ignite, and they go off the scale in a matter of seconds. HE MAY HAVE BEEN FACING THIS.

If this dude had showed up at someone's front door screaming that your dog pooped in his yard, would you consider that grounds to start thinking about the shotgun in the closet? If he confronted the guy in front of him at starbucks for ordering 8 cups of coffee, would it be acceptable?

Stop ignoring the very real fact that there was a perceived threat, and every one here, I believe without exception, would have perceived being confronted in that manner as a threat. A police officer after the donut shop shooting in seattle saw a large guy walking up behind his car, got out and drew his gun, and shot a guy who had killed a bunch of cops.

Jeeze louise. This guy is probably going to die next week, because he was taken to task for what may or may not have been an overreaction, and will stop carrying his gun with him just as the newest serial killer strikes in his hometown. A guy who drives from one atm to another cutting throats when people **** him off.

As a person, I'm kind of ashamed that I'm having to defend this guy for exercising his legal right to carry, and using good judgment in first, concealing his weapon, second, making sure it is accessible, and third, de-escalating the situation to the best that he could. He didn't do anything to provoke this situation. Another member of society who appointed himself the atm traffic guard brought it about.

BTW, in case anybody was wondering, if I had seen this situation develop, MY pistol would have been in my hand the second driver 2 left his vehicle. When I heard the shouting, I probably would have opened my door left my seat, staying behind my door. If driver #2 had then exposed a weapon, you know what? All bets are off. I very possibly would have dropped him if he pointed it into the van. It could have been a gang hit on a narco cop. The situation as I would read it from farther back in line would be that there was no excuse for driver #2 to do what he did, and that driver #1 was in probable danger. A displayed weapon would have brought that thing into the area that I, and probably LE personnel would think deserved intervention.
 
briandg, I agree with a lot of what you said until the last paragraph. The OP made an understandable error, and the other guy over-reacted to create what the OP perceived as a very real threat. In these days of carjackings and Castle Laws, the aggressor opening the car door could very easily be construed as an attack, and the disparity of force between a muscular 300-pounder and a skinny 160-pounder is very real. The problem is that it will cost you the price of a lawyer to do the construing, but broke is better than dead for most people. Preparing for defense while you take steps to de-escalate the situation is a reasonable course.

In the last paragraph, though, you say that you would have intervened in certain circumstances.

It could have been a gang hit on a narco cop.
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The problem is that it could also have been a cop making a narcotics bust. It is close to impossible to know what is going on between two strangers. As much as you might hate to do so, it probably is wise to stay out of other people's fights.
 
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