H&R Handi-rifle

I have several Handi/toppers and enjoy tinkering with them. However, I got a CVA Hunter in .35 Rem last year.

There is really no comparison. The CVA was under $200, has a better trigger than my D&T arms handi trigger job that cost $125, has free deadnutz scope base and rings, and a hammer extension thrown in for free.

The CVA, out of the box, is more accurate than the Handi, has a nice sythetic stock made for scopes with an ambidextrous cheekpiece. Workmanship and materials appear superior to the Handi.

CVA is not the best company to deal with, especially if you are trying to find a particular gun, but they beat remington/H&R hands down.

Forget the Handi if you can get a CVA.

(don't even consider the Rossi single)
 
At their price point it is hard to go wrong as long as it fires.
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That's exactly why their reputation has suffered over the last decade, along with H&R's poor handling of the situation.

The .35 Whelen models had headspace issues and 30-40% wouldn't fire reliably. Up to 10% wouldn't fire at all. H&R blamed Remington (most people were using Remington ammo). Remington blamed H&R. Finally, H&R ran a boat load of new barrels, and started replacing barrels for customers.

For about two years, the .223 Rem models (16" 'youth' model barrels in particular) had hit-and-miss headspace issues that caused light strikes and failures-to-fire. H&R blamed cheap import ammo. Customers balked, saying that ALL ammunition did it. Finally, after many headaches for owners, H&R repeated the .35 Whelen - they ran a bunch of barrels and started replacing them for customers.

Rinse and repeat the above for .30-30 barrels and .22-250 barrels.

Add a chambering that tore the rifles apart when used with full-power factory ammo (.500 S&W Magnum).

And for at least three years, nearly every centerfire chambering had issues with extractors slipping right over the cartridge rim. As usual, H&R blamed customers for improper maintenance and the use of cheap ammo. Customers disagreed, and really never got anywhere unless they sent the rifle in for some other repair (or 'accessory' barrel) and added the extraction issue as secondary.


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There is absolutely no reason to defend H&R for their steady cheapening of the product or repair service. Doing so is like arguing in favor of saving an automotive manufacturer that built such terrible cars that they were facing bankruptcy because the people saw the light and didn't want those lemons any more.
The only 'good' thing that they did was killing the now-sub-standard product line before it ruined the whole brand.
 
Mine is not your average, every day Handi Rifle. Chambered in 500 S&W, and topped with a Bushnell Trophy XLT Circle-X Reticle 1.75-4X Shotgun Scope on high, sight through rings.
I just can't get consistant accuracy out of it. I'm thinking it's the setup, and when I get time I will take everything off, and start with the factory open sights. But right now I might get two rounds to hold together pretty decent, and close to POA @ 100 yards, but the third round could go anywhere. Target frame, shot up my Caldwell Ultimate!:eek. Next target. Or not found at all!
500 S&W is a bit pricey to experiment with, and I don't know if the problem is the gun, the setup, or me. But before I violate my 1st rule with this one I'm gonna put it on a lead sled, factory sights, @ 50 yds to see if I have something to work with.
 
Cheapshooter, when I bought my .444 Marlin Handi-Rifle, it was a toss-up between .444 Marlin and the newly-introduced (to the Handi) .500 S&W.
The deciding factor was that .500 S&W was actually cheaper (theoretically) to reload after the first firing or brass purchase.
So, I shopped around, researched on my own, and came up with nothing. All .500 S&W Handis had sold out, and no dealer or distributor could get one for me.

.444 Marlin it was. ...And while I was trying to get my hands on the ever-elusive .444 Marlin brass, I started seeing the reports from .500 S&W owners about the Handis beating the crap out of themselves, and outright breaking - some after just 100-150 rounds.
It was a good idea, and an idea that would sell (and did). But the frame just can't take it. Some guys have been lucky, and have managed to put many hundreds of rounds through theirs without noticing any problems. But enough people have had issues with the .500 S&W barrels that I don't want to mess with it.

The H&R forum over at MarlinOwners, and the H&R 'rifle' forum over at GreyBeardOutdoors have dozens and dozens of discussions about .500 S&W headaches, should you ever want to waste a day on the internet and get depressed about something you own.

If you can get yours to shoot, I'd say keep it. But if it's giving you trouble, there's an alternative to breaking rule number one: Buy (or trade for) a used barrel or three. That way you don't have to sell the actual 'firearm', but you can get yourself into something different.



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For the record, I've broken rule #1 .... let's see ... umm ... one, two ... plus the pieces of crap ... three, four ... oh, and the .38 Special. Yea, at least five times, just this year. I hate selling firearms, but four of those that I sold just weren't working for me. It was better to turn them into something that I liked, than hang on to them for no good reason.

One of them, though, I do wish I could have kept. But, at the time, I had to pay for a limited production Kimber that appears to be #17 of a 630-unit limited edition. It has been in my family since it was new, my brother needed some cash, and I needed to make the transaction happen very quickly without pulling more than $500 from savings. For the smoothest, sexiest 1911 I've ever had my hands on, it was worth 'ditching' that Ruger P94 (that I'd only had for 2 weeks! :eek:). At the very least, I did get a good price for it.
I wish I still had the P94, but it was worth it to make sure that Kimber stayed in the hands of someone that would appreciate how sweet it is.
 
I really like my .308, it's "handy". It's a short gun with a normal barrel length.

I had a 30-06 with a muzzle break. The one and only time I fired it without hearing protection, I dropped rifle. My ears rang for days, weeks maybe.
 
I've had mixed results with H&R.
Could not get a .38-55 to work with lead & could not get the H&R people to understand it. "But, nobody will shoot lead through those, they're a HUNTING rifle!"
Finally just had them re-barrel in .30-30 & sold it.

Could not get a .45-70 to shoot with a number of lead handloads.
Sold it.

Had good luck with a synthetic .22LR Sportster, after having my gunsmith re-engineer the trigger. Still have it, shoots great.
Bought a 20-gauge as a gift to a nephew, the hinge had to be relieved, he could barely get it open.
Once addressed, nice little shotgun.
Denis
 
On one of Ibmikey's trips to Texas, he left me with one in 45/70 with nice open sights on it. I have shot it some, and handles the lighter loads I prefer through it nicely. I have shot both jacketed and lead with no problems and accuracy is acceptable.
I hate to see any serviceable firearm bite the dust, but who knows..maybe they will become sought after in future years like some other brands have.
 
FrankenMauser, after reading some of the reports of problems with the 500 Handi I decided if I can get it to shoot somewhere close, I would get dies, and a mold, and handload a bit lighter cast bullet loads. I can reduce the punishment on the gun a bit, and still have a fun "big bore" shooter, and possibly a short range, hard hitting deer gun.
The frame doesn't appear to be stretched, the barrel locks up tight. No obvious indications on the brass. I just don't want to bother getting 500 S&W dies if I can't get it to at least put some kind of group together.
On the addotional barrels, I have heard they are down to what's in stock on new onew. Also, it appears they aren't like T/C Contender, or Encore barrels. They say you need to send your frame for them to "fit" another barrel.
 
Sounds like a plan.
I actually need to give up on something that I've been doing: Pushing for max velocity with a 437 gr bullet in .444 Marlin.
Once the load hits about 1,900 fps, it is brutal on the shooter, from a 6 lb rifle. It's pretty hard on the scope, too. I can't imagine it's very good for the rifle. :rolleyes:

On the addotional barrels, I have heard they are down to what's in stock on new onew. Also, it appears they aren't like T/C Contender, or Encore barrels. They say you need to send your frame for them to "fit" another barrel.
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I would be looking at pawn shops, gun shops, local ads, local auctions, internet classifieds, and internet auctions, if I was in the market for H&R barrels. Barrels are not easy to find, but there are a lot out there.

H&R wants WAYYYY too much for an accessory barrel, now (if they even have what you want). A few years ago, you could get a new barrel for the cost of the barrel, plus about $40 (which covered shipping, fitting, and a new fore-stock).

But, a couple years ago, though, they started nickel-and-diming, and demanding the complete rifle from most people that inquired - which triples shipping costs. So the price went to $200-240+ per barrel (depending upon the cost of the barrel that you wanted) ... when you could buy a COMPLETE Handi-Rifle for the same price.

I was pretty irritated when I found out about it, because I had been saving some money for a while, in order to get a handful of barrels all at the same time: .35 Whelen (iron sight), .223 Rem 16" ("youth"), .243 Win (iron sight / "youth"), .30-30 (iron sight), and maybe a shotgun barrel. That should have been close to the $420 I was quoted right after I bought the .444 Marlin model. But with the new fee schedule and policies, I was quoted over $1,200 when I was finally ready to do it. :eek:

When I started looking around to see if I was the only person to be blind-sided by the new fees, I found that most people were simply buying complete rifles (or 'combo' sets) for the barrels that they wanted, and then selling the frame for $75 or so.

Any decent gunsmith can fit a barrel to your frame, or you can use some of the low-tech options like soda can shims and a pillar file.
 
When I started looking around to see if I was the only person to be blind-sided by the new fees, I found that most people were simply buying complete rifles (or 'combo' sets) for the barrels that they wanted, and then selling the frame for $75 or so.
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Does anyone here have experience switching barrels for handi-rifles without any fitting? My understanding is they must be fit. There may be some leeway in the shotguns and low pressure rounds, but I wouldn't want to mess with the higher pressure rounds and a bad fit.

I just wish someone made a single shot that was just a bit nicer. I would consider the CVA offerings, but can never seem to find them. Even on gunbroker, the legal Ohio Deer cartridges are rare.
 
Many, if not most, barrels will fit and lock up correctly. There's always the odd one tho. Fitting info is found in the stickies in H&R/NEF forum over at go2gbo.com (the graybeard website). It is not complicated and can be done by anyone that has a bit of ability with his hands. It mostly has to do with whether the parts latch together correctly. Worst one I ever had I had to put a .003" shim in the hinge hook to take slack out of the hinge. Remember to drive pins out from RIGHT to LEFT, and you will need a dummy pin to reassemble the trigger group. GW
 
I read this carefully and perhaps I missed it.

H&R was aquired by Freedom Group, same outfit that runs Remington. The plant in Gardner Mass closed. Most employees let go. The guns were then built in NY in the Remington plant. The quality took a dramatic hit. The same exact thing happened with Marlin. I got two of Rem/H&R and the sight base fell off one. The metal finish was poor. The triggers actually seemed pretty good (better) and the laminated stock no worse than the old birch/beech.

IMHO, what,who killed the H&R was Freedom Group. Not Ruger. They ran the quality into the ground. The H&R was never an alternative to a bolt gun. It was different and there is now a crappy import, CVA or some such filling that nitch. Those junky imports do sell. There is a demand beyond low cost. It is and was a very useful firearm.

Handy, says it all. Rifles, shotguns and slug guns - a versatile platform. Light and quick, one shot for those with the confidence and skill.

Prior to the buy out, neither Marlin or H&R were in any financial distress. Freedom Group just made offers and purchased the companies for their own reasons. They still make Marlin levers and some other H&R model of little merit.

I miss the H&R, but life goes on. I still have a few. I hope the Remlins improve, that would be another tragic loss.
 
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Try viewing it this way- The company tried to keep the Handi competitive, and in doing so progressively lowered production costs till they couldn't remove any more.

That went hand in hand with the decline in quality.

The gun was not profitable, regardless of how much they cheapened it.

It didn't die because quality declined, quality declined because the maker couldn't keep a profit on the gun.

Sales lowered before quality did.
The market preferred cheaper repeating alternatives.

Too many people were looking at $350 for a single-shot vs $350 for an accurate bolt-action, and choosing the bolt-action.
Denis
 
Try viewing it this way- The company tried to keep the Handi competitive, and in doing so progressively lowered production costs till they couldn't remove any more.
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NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! This is all 100% wrong. Remington purchased H&R and immediately the quality dropped. No step by step involved. Over time, quality actually came back up a bit as they figured out how to build the guns (better and faster). But real quality is not in freedom group's dna.

The gun was dropped for reasons know to freedom group. I assume you are right, profit margin for resources tied up. They had no problem in Mass but then over 100 years of practice, may make a difference. Not to mention pride.

There are two different companies here, why do you use terms like "company"? Who are we talking about? What time period?
 
NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! This is all 100% wrong. Remington purchased H&R and immediately the quality dropped. No step by step involved. Over time, quality actually came back up a bit as they figured out how to build the guns (better and faster). But real quality is not in freedom group's dna.

The gun was dropped for reasons know to freedom group. I assume you are right, profit margin for resources tied up. They had no problem in Mass but then over 100 years of practice, may make a difference. Not to mention pride.
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My opinion differs.
From my point of view, quality was going downhill before Remington ever came into the picture. ...A time during which Marlin (H&R 1871's subsidiary) was also in decline, as far as quality. Sure, quality took a major hit when Remington moved production, but it was already sliding.

H&R and Marlin were both in their own production facilities, still using their "experienced" employees, and had no influence from Remington. ...Yet they were both letting quality slip, and putting too many 'lemons' on the market.


Regardless of our opinions, what it comes down to is that H&R/Remington no longer viewed the single-shot line as profitable. That could mean that they were unhappy with a 30% profit margin, when they really wanted 50% profit; or it could mean that they were getting squeezed to 15% profit, rather than 20%. Only the company executives know the answer to that one.
Unless you talk to them yourself, the best answer will come from people like DPris - the guys that are in the loop, and have been for many years.
 
i thought marlin was going downhill for awhile before the remmy thing anyway. seems to be a unpopular opinion anyway. the budget rifles killed the handi. why would you buy a single shot when you could have a bolt action repeater like a axis, or ruger american for almost the same cost? before that they lost sales to the stevens 200 and mossberg budget guns.
 
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