Lord Grey Boots
New member
Does anyone know how easy and how much $$ it is to put a new combination lock on a safe? I got a lead on a gov't surplus safe, but it doesn't have the combo dial on it.
Gun safes?
- Thread starter Beav
- Start date
I would also like to know about putting a new combination lock on a safe. In reference to government surplus; I bought a four drawer file cabinet that was used at the Nevada Test Site. It has the US Atomic Energy Commision name plates and all that. It is a pretty much standard size four drawer file cabinet but weighs as much as a safe. It got away from me coming out of the bed of my pickup and broke the concrete on my porch. The dial for the lock is also missing, this must be standard proceedure. It was not only for secure materials but is also fireproof. I am sure it once contained all kinds of top secret documents at area 51 complete with flying saucer blueprints, alien autopsy records and the like.
Monkeyleg; You will have to excuse me, I have been single for over 10 years. I have my reloading benches set up in the living room and cases of ammo all over the floor.
Monkeyleg; You will have to excuse me, I have been single for over 10 years. I have my reloading benches set up in the living room and cases of ammo all over the floor.
Does anyone have one of the safes from http://www.costco.com/frameset.asp?...d=10011256&log=
that cost $850.00 delivered that nate haler suggested ? This looks like a pretty good deal. Thanks for any more information someone may have on these safes.
that cost $850.00 delivered that nate haler suggested ? This looks like a pretty good deal. Thanks for any more information someone may have on these safes.
CARman-
Yep; maybe I can help you.
It is a Cannon safe; used to be on their website; or catalogue; nt both. Check by dimensions; under American Eagle logo.
Very similar, but less deep than the one at www.libertylock.com by 2 inches.
Keep in mind that Costco provides ONLY curbside delivery; getting it in or up steps is YOUR responsibility. Need AT LEAST a double-axle 'fridge hand dolly; much easier. Seen it done.
Let me recommend Brian or Maureen at Liberty again.
Yep; maybe I can help you.
It is a Cannon safe; used to be on their website; or catalogue; nt both. Check by dimensions; under American Eagle logo.
Very similar, but less deep than the one at www.libertylock.com by 2 inches.
Keep in mind that Costco provides ONLY curbside delivery; getting it in or up steps is YOUR responsibility. Need AT LEAST a double-axle 'fridge hand dolly; much easier. Seen it done.
Let me recommend Brian or Maureen at Liberty again.
What I learned about safes...
Spent a loooong time looking for a safe, and finally bought one about a year ago. I decided NOT to go for a fire-rated unit that was all spit polished and gold plated. Instead, I went for safe rated in terms of burglary rating - how long it takes a knowledgeble person, with the appropriate tools, and diagrams / drawings to break into the safe in question.
I ended up going with a unit that is referred to as being a 'Plate' safe - all sides, top, bottom and door are made of plate steel. In my case, everything but the door is 1/2" plate, the door is 1" plate. That's 1" of SOLID steel in the door, and 1/2" of SOLID steel everywhere else.
When I checked with all the 'name brand' safes (Liberty, Cannon, etc.) I found that their construction consisted of dry-wall sandwiched between two thin sheets of steel, typically 10 GA (0.120") or less thick per sheet. Having drilled through stuff like this before (ever do body work on a car?), I knew there wasn't much security provided by something so thin. Yes, the dry-wall is a fire barrier, but...
Dry-wall fire barriers do their job by trading off moisture for temperature. So, add heat to dry-wall, and you get steam, until all the water has cooked off - then you get the heat. This steam has to go somewhere, and in the case of a safe, the steam goes inside. Then, presto! your safe is now a sauna. All the stuff you have in your safe is now mush, and likely worthless. Metal will quickly rust, wood warps, and paper materials turn to crud.
Here are the recommendations that I can make for a safe:
1) get a plate safe - most protection for your $$$
2) get the biggest one that will fit inside your house that you can afford
3) put it in the basement (cooler in a fire, and no risk of it falling through the floor)
4) bolt it to the floor so it can't tip when you open the door, and so a thief can't drag it out and open it at their leisure
5) have a professional move it in - note, I'm talking about safes that are measured in TONS, not pounds
6) conceal it, like in a closet or other space - don't show it off - all it does is advertise that there's something VALUABLE inside
7) the most tender spot on a safe is one of the sides or the top - protect those areas where possible with walls or other obstruction
8) REMEMBER: a safe only buys time, and deters those who are in for the quick grab. If you look for bugulary ratings, you'll find that safes exist for protection from explosives
Aloha!
Spent a loooong time looking for a safe, and finally bought one about a year ago. I decided NOT to go for a fire-rated unit that was all spit polished and gold plated. Instead, I went for safe rated in terms of burglary rating - how long it takes a knowledgeble person, with the appropriate tools, and diagrams / drawings to break into the safe in question.
I ended up going with a unit that is referred to as being a 'Plate' safe - all sides, top, bottom and door are made of plate steel. In my case, everything but the door is 1/2" plate, the door is 1" plate. That's 1" of SOLID steel in the door, and 1/2" of SOLID steel everywhere else.
When I checked with all the 'name brand' safes (Liberty, Cannon, etc.) I found that their construction consisted of dry-wall sandwiched between two thin sheets of steel, typically 10 GA (0.120") or less thick per sheet. Having drilled through stuff like this before (ever do body work on a car?), I knew there wasn't much security provided by something so thin. Yes, the dry-wall is a fire barrier, but...
Dry-wall fire barriers do their job by trading off moisture for temperature. So, add heat to dry-wall, and you get steam, until all the water has cooked off - then you get the heat. This steam has to go somewhere, and in the case of a safe, the steam goes inside. Then, presto! your safe is now a sauna. All the stuff you have in your safe is now mush, and likely worthless. Metal will quickly rust, wood warps, and paper materials turn to crud.
Here are the recommendations that I can make for a safe:
1) get a plate safe - most protection for your $$$
2) get the biggest one that will fit inside your house that you can afford
3) put it in the basement (cooler in a fire, and no risk of it falling through the floor)
4) bolt it to the floor so it can't tip when you open the door, and so a thief can't drag it out and open it at their leisure
5) have a professional move it in - note, I'm talking about safes that are measured in TONS, not pounds
6) conceal it, like in a closet or other space - don't show it off - all it does is advertise that there's something VALUABLE inside
7) the most tender spot on a safe is one of the sides or the top - protect those areas where possible with walls or other obstruction
8) REMEMBER: a safe only buys time, and deters those who are in for the quick grab. If you look for bugulary ratings, you'll find that safes exist for protection from explosives
Aloha!
One comment on "fire proof" safes. A lot of people have fire senarios in their mind that are absolute worst case senarios. I agree that in a worst case senario, a fire safe very well might not protect your stuff. But most house fires are not worst case senarios from the standpoint of safe fire ratings. First of all, most of us do not live in an area where there is no one to fight the fire. Most of us live in an area where a fire department will respond in a reasonable time frame and begin fighting the fire. If you don't, to me, this is all the more reason to take whatever steps possible to protect against fire including using a fire rated safe. Second, few of us have houses that will completely contain the fire gases allowing the room to reach fantasic temperatures. The windows will shatter, doors will be open etc. allowing some of the super heated products of combustion to escape. Yes it will still be hot, but not thousands of degrees hot. Of course if you have a huge fire load right next to the safe with direct flame impingement on the safe itself that is another story. I would guess that most of our safes will just be exposed to the fire gases. And this is all assuming that either the house is fully involved in fire, or the fire occured in the same room as the safe.
I really don't know what materials are used in safe construction but I would venture a guess that the fire material in a safe is not drywall but is sheet rock. Sheet rock is the same material used as a fire barrier in buildings. For example in the attic spaces of commercial buildings, sheetrock is hung to try and prevent fire spread. An example might be a strip mall where a fire breaks out in one business, and gets into the attic space. A sheetrock fire wall shoud be hung in between the various businesses so that the fire will not spread along the entire attic space. These barriers are time rated. In other words they might be requred to have a 30 minute fire wall in the attic. Extensive testing has determined how long these barriers can contain fire until they break down. This testing has shown that this is the best material to use for the job. So, I believe that it will also work in a safe. No, it won't be 100% reliable, yes it can break down given enough time and enough heat, but I feel it is well worth it. Any safe can be comprimised given enough time and the right tools. Same with the fire protection aspect of the safe. Nothing is fool proof, but we can try to come as close as we can.
I really don't know what materials are used in safe construction but I would venture a guess that the fire material in a safe is not drywall but is sheet rock. Sheet rock is the same material used as a fire barrier in buildings. For example in the attic spaces of commercial buildings, sheetrock is hung to try and prevent fire spread. An example might be a strip mall where a fire breaks out in one business, and gets into the attic space. A sheetrock fire wall shoud be hung in between the various businesses so that the fire will not spread along the entire attic space. These barriers are time rated. In other words they might be requred to have a 30 minute fire wall in the attic. Extensive testing has determined how long these barriers can contain fire until they break down. This testing has shown that this is the best material to use for the job. So, I believe that it will also work in a safe. No, it won't be 100% reliable, yes it can break down given enough time and enough heat, but I feel it is well worth it. Any safe can be comprimised given enough time and the right tools. Same with the fire protection aspect of the safe. Nothing is fool proof, but we can try to come as close as we can.
Some good posts, 444 and djsjd.
A question: is it safe (no pun intended) to store jugs of powder in a gun safe? I really don't know where to go with them, since both our basement and our garage are usually pretty damp. I've got a Goldenrod dehumdifier in my safe, but can't see that setting itself on fire. But, then, what do I know?
A question: is it safe (no pun intended) to store jugs of powder in a gun safe? I really don't know where to go with them, since both our basement and our garage are usually pretty damp. I've got a Goldenrod dehumdifier in my safe, but can't see that setting itself on fire. But, then, what do I know?
With reference to Sentry safes. I bought mine from Wal-Mart and while most of the ones I looked at had only 3 to 5 locking lugs, I found one model that had 12 locking lugs and weighed 375 pounds. It isn't the largest safe around, but for $475 it was too good a deal to pass up. Tohelp negate the lack of weight, I lined the bottom of the safe with 1 pound lead ingots that brought the weight up to over 400 pounds.
My only complaint is that the safe is too small. It barely holds 8 long guns and my collection of handguns (over 15 and climbing), and as a result I will have to get another safe. What a shame//
My only complaint is that the safe is too small. It barely holds 8 long guns and my collection of handguns (over 15 and climbing), and as a result I will have to get another safe. What a shame//
M1911Owner
New member
Regarding the question earlier in the thread about how much weight a residential floor is designed to safely support, the live-load design requirement in most residential building codes is 40 pounds per square foot. This spec assumes that a 40 psf load is spread out over the entire floor, so a point load can be considerably higher than that. Still, the weight of a bathtub full of water requires reinforcement beyond what is used for the rest of the floor, so I would think that some of the heavier safes being discussed here are getting beyond what residential floors are designed to safely handle.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Sturdy Safes
www.sturdysafe.com
I'm in the market for a safe and have done alot of research. My budget is $1700. For $1650 delivered I'm buying a 34 cubic foot fire lined safe (about 29 cubic feet interior) with 8 guage steel with no welded spots and 1/4" door, commercial grade combo lock, and ceramic and wool 90 minute fire resistant protection and weighs 750 lbs so it's manageable to move and can be bolted down to prevent theft. It's designed to be very break-in proof with many features that the others don't have. It's 5' x 3' x 2.5'. It has a 20 year warranty. It will give me peace of mind for my valuables from theft or fire.
In comparison, the Cannons, Liberties, Sentry's etc. of the world offer thinner metal (usually 10 or 12 gauge), drywall fireboard insulation (which is near worthless and makes the safe 10% heavier = harder to move), and cheap combo locks for about the same price.
I briefly looked at Browns, but I don't have the $4,000 required to get a Brown, so when I saw the pricetag I stopped looking....
For my $1700 the Sturdy is the best money can buy.
Do your homework and I think you'll agree.
www.sturdysafe.com
I'm in the market for a safe and have done alot of research. My budget is $1700. For $1650 delivered I'm buying a 34 cubic foot fire lined safe (about 29 cubic feet interior) with 8 guage steel with no welded spots and 1/4" door, commercial grade combo lock, and ceramic and wool 90 minute fire resistant protection and weighs 750 lbs so it's manageable to move and can be bolted down to prevent theft. It's designed to be very break-in proof with many features that the others don't have. It's 5' x 3' x 2.5'. It has a 20 year warranty. It will give me peace of mind for my valuables from theft or fire.
In comparison, the Cannons, Liberties, Sentry's etc. of the world offer thinner metal (usually 10 or 12 gauge), drywall fireboard insulation (which is near worthless and makes the safe 10% heavier = harder to move), and cheap combo locks for about the same price.
I briefly looked at Browns, but I don't have the $4,000 required to get a Brown, so when I saw the pricetag I stopped looking....
For my $1700 the Sturdy is the best money can buy. Do your homework and I think you'll agree.
Look good. I liked this page:
http://www.sturdysafe.com/sturdy_002.htm
Shows the postmortem of one after a real house fire. Bet that dude has another one bolted down in his new place already!!!
http://www.sturdysafe.com/sturdy_002.htm
Shows the postmortem of one after a real house fire. Bet that dude has another one bolted down in his new place already!!!
I have a Cannon Safe picked it up for $1,050. It will hold 30 long guns (single shots I am guessing) and has two shelves so it is extra tall. I also have the electronic lock and it is great.
Getting one shipped is tough since they are heavy. It also cost me $250 to have mine delivered and then taken down a flight of stairs to my basement. They used a mechanical lift that only took 2 guys. My safe is around 800 lbs.
Cannon's have a great warrenty. Check them out...
Getting one shipped is tough since they are heavy. It also cost me $250 to have mine delivered and then taken down a flight of stairs to my basement. They used a mechanical lift that only took 2 guys. My safe is around 800 lbs.
Cannon's have a great warrenty. Check them out...
http://www.libertysafe.com/safe_Lincoln.lasso
Maybe Liberty is building them different now?
http://www.libertysafe.com/fireprotection.lasso?page=5
I feel confidant that most of the stuff in my safe would survive if my house went up.
Near worthless? Really? Why does it work then?
http://www.libertysafe.com/fireprotection.lasso?page=4
Sargent & Greenleaf Group II are cheap? What is considered high quality? LaGard and Mosler locks can be compromised with auto-dialers.
I think a decent Liberty or Cannon would fare ok in the average fire or burglary. If someone wants what's in my safe, they will get it even if the safe is slightly better. Maybe Sturdysafes are better, but the Cannons and Liberties are nice too. Sturdysafe has a really crappy website too. Not very much info and no prices.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Sturdy's are better than the mainstream
The most helpful safe buying info I've ever found on the net.
http://www.sturdysafe.com/sturdy_005.htm
I'm getting a 35 cu ft. safe with 90 minutes fire protection from ceramic and wool blankets, with 7 gauge hardened steel and commercial grade combo lock for $1850 delivered! IT's much more heavy duty than any liberty safe and much less expensive.
As it was explained by their safe expert Steve at Study.... A few high points:
Fire proofing:
The fireboard is simply not as effective as ceramic wool and glass blankets that Sturdy uses. As others have pointed out on other posts, fireboard has a high moisture content and when it gets hot it releases moisture to retard the fire. So, your guns and papers may not burn, but they'll be soaked in the sauna inside the safe until you can open it, which may not be for hours or days (remember your plastic dial will be melted away and you may need a locksmith to open it. even if your dial isn't plastic, the firemen won't let you near the safe until it's completely safe and everything is cooled down).
The UL fireproof "rating" is not very realistic. They cook the safes for exactly 30 minutes, 45 minutes, or 90 minutes and then immedaitely hose them off until they are cool and then openned immediately to cool the interior. The safes pass this "test" but it's not very realistic, mainly because in a total burn down the temps will exceed 1200 degrees AND the fire may burn longer than 30/60/90 minutes AND safe won't always be hosed off immediately. The interior of the safe may well reach unacceptable temps and REMAIN there for some time.
Per Liberties site: "Liberty safes are tested and certified by Omega Point Laboratories, an independent, nationally recognized company which conducts fire tests simulating home fire conditions. In an Omega Point fire test the furnace temperature builds to 1200°F, typical home fire intensity, in ten minutes and is maintained there, exposing the safe to the full heat and intensity of a simulated home fire during the test. The test is over when one of the nine computer monitored temperature probes inside the safe rises 275°F above the ambient temperature - paper chars at 402°F . The results are a rating that is a real measure of a safe’s fire endurance under conditions simulating a house fire, not just a factory test. Simply put, Liberty safes are built to pass a rigorous, realistic, fire test. That’s why a Liberty Safe with a 45 minute Omega Point fire rating can achieve a one hour and twenty-nine minute rating when a competitve fire testing method is used. For more information on fire testing, visit Omega Point Laboratories at www.opl.com or Underwriters Laboratories at www.ul.com. CAUTION: All safes are susceptible to heat and fire damage when exposed to high enough temperatures for extended periods of time. Thus, no safe is actually “fire proof,” only fire resistant."
Sturdy uses different testing methods that accurately reflect REAL fires. Using ceramic and wool makes the safe significantly more fire resistant at 2300 degrees (rather than the less realistic 1200 degrees), no moisture from the heat, and reduces the weight of the safe by around 10% or more, making it easier to move and less expensive to ship. Just bolt it to the floor for burglary protection.
From Sturdy: Sturdy Fire Safes are made with a first layer of heavy steel (7 or 8 gage). The second layer consists of a 2300 deg. U.L. listed ceramic wool. The third layer is a U.L. listed 1000 deg. glass blanket. The fourth layer consists an inside sealed steel liner. Which compresses the two insulating blankets to a total thickness of two inches or more throughout the safe.
Check out the total burndown at www.sturdysafe.com under firesafes. This guy's papers and plastic gun box and ammo were all fine after he lost everything in a total burndown.
Liberty uses thin steel. I bet yours is 10 or maybe 12 gage. You can punch through it with a screwdriver or a fireax rather easily and peel it open like a tin can with a crowbar and an axe. My Sturdy safe is 7 gage, which is significantly thicker. It would require significant effort to punch through it with any common implements and you wouldn't be able to peel the metal away.
You asked if "Sargent & Greenleaf Group II are cheap? What is considered high quality? LaGard and Mosler locks can be compromised with auto-dialers." Sturdy uses Sargent & Greenleaf also, but there are several grades. I bet your safe has a residential grade. Sturdy uses the commercial grade with is significantly stronger and more durable. Per Sturdy: "All combination boxes used on gun safes today are made of a pot metal-type alloy. STURDY GUN SAFE'S combination tongue (dead-bolt) is made of solid brass which makes it 30 to 40 times stronger than the cast pot metal deadbolts. Sturdy does not rely on the strength of the pot metal combination box for the needed strength. Instead, Sturdy Safe installs a combination deadbolt reinforcement. This makes the combination box even stronger than it's dead bolt. It also helps protect the lock system from undue force and helps eliminate the need for shear pins and clutches inside the door, which are responsible for most accidental lock-outs. Be sure the combination box has a deadbolt reinforcement in the safe you buy. STURDY GUN SAFE uses a commercial grade Sargent & Greenleaf combination box. Most gun safe manufacturers use a S & G combination box made for residential use which is not made for a heavy-duty application. Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot differentiate between the two. Therefore it is important to know that the heavy-duty Sargent & Greenleaf commercial combination box model number is "6730"."
As far as warranty, Sturdy offers repair or replacement after fire or burglary for 20 years. The door has exterior pins and is also removable for easy transportation so the whole safe doesn't need to be shipped (no, a burglar cannot remove the door, nor would removing the pins do any good when it's locked). The others offer warranties, but what good is a warranty if you safe has FAILED to protect your stuff from fire or theft?
Liberty, Cannon, Sentry, etc. all cut corners by using cheap fireboard (what is it about $10-20 a 4x8 sheet?) and thin metal and residential grade locks, spend money on advertising rather than production. It's probably fine for your stuff and for light duty fire protection and unsophisicated burglars, but for the same or less money you could buy a Sturdy safe with thicker steel, commercial lock, and REAL fire protection.
The most helpful safe buying info I've ever found on the net.
http://www.sturdysafe.com/sturdy_005.htm
I'm getting a 35 cu ft. safe with 90 minutes fire protection from ceramic and wool blankets, with 7 gauge hardened steel and commercial grade combo lock for $1850 delivered! IT's much more heavy duty than any liberty safe and much less expensive.
As it was explained by their safe expert Steve at Study.... A few high points:
Fire proofing:
The fireboard is simply not as effective as ceramic wool and glass blankets that Sturdy uses. As others have pointed out on other posts, fireboard has a high moisture content and when it gets hot it releases moisture to retard the fire. So, your guns and papers may not burn, but they'll be soaked in the sauna inside the safe until you can open it, which may not be for hours or days (remember your plastic dial will be melted away and you may need a locksmith to open it. even if your dial isn't plastic, the firemen won't let you near the safe until it's completely safe and everything is cooled down).
The UL fireproof "rating" is not very realistic. They cook the safes for exactly 30 minutes, 45 minutes, or 90 minutes and then immedaitely hose them off until they are cool and then openned immediately to cool the interior. The safes pass this "test" but it's not very realistic, mainly because in a total burn down the temps will exceed 1200 degrees AND the fire may burn longer than 30/60/90 minutes AND safe won't always be hosed off immediately. The interior of the safe may well reach unacceptable temps and REMAIN there for some time.
Per Liberties site: "Liberty safes are tested and certified by Omega Point Laboratories, an independent, nationally recognized company which conducts fire tests simulating home fire conditions. In an Omega Point fire test the furnace temperature builds to 1200°F, typical home fire intensity, in ten minutes and is maintained there, exposing the safe to the full heat and intensity of a simulated home fire during the test. The test is over when one of the nine computer monitored temperature probes inside the safe rises 275°F above the ambient temperature - paper chars at 402°F . The results are a rating that is a real measure of a safe’s fire endurance under conditions simulating a house fire, not just a factory test. Simply put, Liberty safes are built to pass a rigorous, realistic, fire test. That’s why a Liberty Safe with a 45 minute Omega Point fire rating can achieve a one hour and twenty-nine minute rating when a competitve fire testing method is used. For more information on fire testing, visit Omega Point Laboratories at www.opl.com or Underwriters Laboratories at www.ul.com. CAUTION: All safes are susceptible to heat and fire damage when exposed to high enough temperatures for extended periods of time. Thus, no safe is actually “fire proof,” only fire resistant."
Sturdy uses different testing methods that accurately reflect REAL fires. Using ceramic and wool makes the safe significantly more fire resistant at 2300 degrees (rather than the less realistic 1200 degrees), no moisture from the heat, and reduces the weight of the safe by around 10% or more, making it easier to move and less expensive to ship. Just bolt it to the floor for burglary protection.
From Sturdy: Sturdy Fire Safes are made with a first layer of heavy steel (7 or 8 gage). The second layer consists of a 2300 deg. U.L. listed ceramic wool. The third layer is a U.L. listed 1000 deg. glass blanket. The fourth layer consists an inside sealed steel liner. Which compresses the two insulating blankets to a total thickness of two inches or more throughout the safe.
Check out the total burndown at www.sturdysafe.com under firesafes. This guy's papers and plastic gun box and ammo were all fine after he lost everything in a total burndown.
Liberty uses thin steel. I bet yours is 10 or maybe 12 gage. You can punch through it with a screwdriver or a fireax rather easily and peel it open like a tin can with a crowbar and an axe. My Sturdy safe is 7 gage, which is significantly thicker. It would require significant effort to punch through it with any common implements and you wouldn't be able to peel the metal away.
You asked if "Sargent & Greenleaf Group II are cheap? What is considered high quality? LaGard and Mosler locks can be compromised with auto-dialers." Sturdy uses Sargent & Greenleaf also, but there are several grades. I bet your safe has a residential grade. Sturdy uses the commercial grade with is significantly stronger and more durable. Per Sturdy: "All combination boxes used on gun safes today are made of a pot metal-type alloy. STURDY GUN SAFE'S combination tongue (dead-bolt) is made of solid brass which makes it 30 to 40 times stronger than the cast pot metal deadbolts. Sturdy does not rely on the strength of the pot metal combination box for the needed strength. Instead, Sturdy Safe installs a combination deadbolt reinforcement. This makes the combination box even stronger than it's dead bolt. It also helps protect the lock system from undue force and helps eliminate the need for shear pins and clutches inside the door, which are responsible for most accidental lock-outs. Be sure the combination box has a deadbolt reinforcement in the safe you buy. STURDY GUN SAFE uses a commercial grade Sargent & Greenleaf combination box. Most gun safe manufacturers use a S & G combination box made for residential use which is not made for a heavy-duty application. Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot differentiate between the two. Therefore it is important to know that the heavy-duty Sargent & Greenleaf commercial combination box model number is "6730"."
As far as warranty, Sturdy offers repair or replacement after fire or burglary for 20 years. The door has exterior pins and is also removable for easy transportation so the whole safe doesn't need to be shipped (no, a burglar cannot remove the door, nor would removing the pins do any good when it's locked). The others offer warranties, but what good is a warranty if you safe has FAILED to protect your stuff from fire or theft?
Liberty, Cannon, Sentry, etc. all cut corners by using cheap fireboard (what is it about $10-20 a 4x8 sheet?) and thin metal and residential grade locks, spend money on advertising rather than production. It's probably fine for your stuff and for light duty fire protection and unsophisicated burglars, but for the same or less money you could buy a Sturdy safe with thicker steel, commercial lock, and REAL fire protection.
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leadcouncil,
You spew a load of crap with no proof.
My dial is not plastic
What does that have to with anything? HMMMM? And this would be different with your safe? Yea, ok...
Really, like what? There is nothing on their crappy website that explains their testing procedures.
More bs from a bs artist. Tell you what, you and I can split the cost of a Liberty safe and you can try to open it it with an axe and a screw driver. If you can't do it, you buy the rest of the safe. If you can, I'll buy the other half. Sound fair?
Wrong again.
You might want to do some research before you spew a bunch of lies. Your last post is so full of bs, I don't even wish to cover each point.
I never said Sturdy safes are bad. Although you think just about all other safes are junk with no proof. List some examples of Cannon or Liberty safes failing either by fire or burglary.
If I didn't know better, I'd think you worked for sturdy. You seem to have info that their website doesn't list. Where did you get this bogus info?
You spew a load of crap with no proof.
My dial is not plastic
What does that have to with anything? HMMMM? And this would be different with your safe? Yea, ok...
Really, like what? There is nothing on their crappy website that explains their testing procedures.
More bs from a bs artist. Tell you what, you and I can split the cost of a Liberty safe and you can try to open it it with an axe and a screw driver. If you can't do it, you buy the rest of the safe. If you can, I'll buy the other half. Sound fair?
Wrong again.
You might want to do some research before you spew a bunch of lies. Your last post is so full of bs, I don't even wish to cover each point.
I never said Sturdy safes are bad. Although you think just about all other safes are junk with no proof. List some examples of Cannon or Liberty safes failing either by fire or burglary.
If I didn't know better, I'd think you worked for sturdy. You seem to have info that their website doesn't list. Where did you get this bogus info?
leadcounsel
Moderator
625:
I'm not lying about anything and I selected Sturdy after a year of extensive research on the topic and saving my money for the purchase.
Hey, I don't care what you buy and doubt you'll buy a different safe as I understand that you already have one. I'm just trying to inform people that there are options and that people can buy a much better safe for the same or less money.
To counter your specific points:
1: Granted, your dial may not be plastic, but is it a commercial or residential grade? Commercial grade locks are up to 40 times as strong and durable and harder to crack, and therefore significantly more expensive. PROVE that liberty safe locks are NOT residential grade. From Sturdy's website: "STURDY GUN SAFE uses a commercial grade Sargent & Greenleaf combination box. Most gun safe manufacturers use a S & G combination box made for residential use which is not made for a heavy-duty application. Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot differentiate between the two. Therefore it is important to know that the heavy-duty Sargent & Greenleaf commercial combination box model number is "6730"."
2: Fire protection of the Sturdy safe is FAR superior than the Liberty safe. The Liberty offers two sheets of fireboard (the stuff used in housing construction that is basically moist drywall, used in the barrier between your garage and interior living space). It works by baking off the moisture, which is contained inside the safe (making it a sauna for the goods inside and ruining papers and rusting metals). It offers a whimsical 75 minutes of heat/fire insulation for fires of 1200 degrees. Sturdy offers more expensive and effective ceramic and wool and glass blankets with 2300 degrees for 90 minutes. Thats about twice as hot for 20% longer. AND, it doesn't release steam and moisture into the safe!
Fire protection for Sturdy is explained here and is much better than the 1200 degree 75 minute protection your safe offers, and they have PROOF of their safes' performance after a TOTAL burndown. Even the papers and plastic boxes survived:
http://www.sturdysafe.com/sturdy_002.htm
"...The second layer consists of a 2300 deg. U.L. listed ceramic wool. The third layer is a U.L. listed 1000 deg. glass blanket...."
I've also had lengthy conversations with their safe expert Terry who will explain the differences. The fact that he spends TIME on the phone is meaningful to me because it demonstrates their willingness to customer service.
As far as the testing goes, Liberty’s website says they heat them up, then cool them down and open them.
In a REAL fire, your valuables will be left in an unopened safe for an undetermined amount of time. IN the fireboard protected safe, that means they will bake in a sauna and be saturated with water for who knows how long. Moisture will damage papers, electronics, and metal on guns. The Sturdy safe is rated for higher temps for longer time and releases NO moisture into the safe.
3: Burglary protection: Liberty safe is 10 gauge steel (some models are less with 12 guage), 3.571875mm thick. Sturdy 7 gauge steel is 4.7625mm thick, or 25% thicker. Thinner gauge metal, such as 10 or 12 gauge, can be punched through with a fireax or screwdriver, whereas the 7 gauge steel that MY safe is made of cannot. In theory, with repeated axe strokes, someone or a pair of burglars could just carve out an opening with a fireax, and peel 10 or 12 gauge open with some pry bars and take your goods out through the side and a 1' opening. Sure, this would be noisy, but what if you're on vacation or gone for the evening? Don't know about you, but I'd rather have my valuables protected by 7 guage than 10 (or 12) guage.
I don’t know whether you bought a Liberty or how much you paid, but here’s a comparison from the website against the Sturdy safe that I bought.
Liberty:
10 gauge steel, 35 cubic feet, fireboard fire insulation, 75 minute 1200 degree protection, 960 pounds, S&G group II lock (residential grade) for $2100 (not sure if this includes delivery; if not, add about $300 for delivery).
Sturdy:
7 gauge steel, 35 cubic feet, ceramic wool and glass blanket 90 minute 2300 degree fire protection, 875 pounds, S&G commercial grade lock for $1850 delivered.
Liberties BEST safes are only 10 gauge steel. All of their safes offer only fireboard construction, and to get a Liberty safe NEAR the Sturdy characteristics in fire protection would cost over $3000!
Sturdy is CLEARY the better product in every respect. It’s got 25% thicker steel, 20% longer fire protection at 90% greater heat, a stronger and better combo lock, and lighter weight for easier moving, for much less $.
Why buy residential grade when you can buy commercial grade for less?
On google there are nearly 12 million hits for "FIRE SAFE FAILURE." As for listing failures on fire safes, I'm not interested in spending any more time on this point. Could be that there are NONE. Could be there are MANY. Could be that failures are not published on the website due to confidentiality settlements with safe companies where lawsuits are settled between the owners and the safe companies.
All I can say is that I bought a significantly better product that Liberty can offer for significantly less money and I'm 100% confident in the product and satisfied with the product and the service. That's all that matters.
I'm not lying about anything and I selected Sturdy after a year of extensive research on the topic and saving my money for the purchase.
Hey, I don't care what you buy and doubt you'll buy a different safe as I understand that you already have one. I'm just trying to inform people that there are options and that people can buy a much better safe for the same or less money.
To counter your specific points:
1: Granted, your dial may not be plastic, but is it a commercial or residential grade? Commercial grade locks are up to 40 times as strong and durable and harder to crack, and therefore significantly more expensive. PROVE that liberty safe locks are NOT residential grade. From Sturdy's website: "STURDY GUN SAFE uses a commercial grade Sargent & Greenleaf combination box. Most gun safe manufacturers use a S & G combination box made for residential use which is not made for a heavy-duty application. Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot differentiate between the two. Therefore it is important to know that the heavy-duty Sargent & Greenleaf commercial combination box model number is "6730"."
2: Fire protection of the Sturdy safe is FAR superior than the Liberty safe. The Liberty offers two sheets of fireboard (the stuff used in housing construction that is basically moist drywall, used in the barrier between your garage and interior living space). It works by baking off the moisture, which is contained inside the safe (making it a sauna for the goods inside and ruining papers and rusting metals). It offers a whimsical 75 minutes of heat/fire insulation for fires of 1200 degrees. Sturdy offers more expensive and effective ceramic and wool and glass blankets with 2300 degrees for 90 minutes. Thats about twice as hot for 20% longer. AND, it doesn't release steam and moisture into the safe!
Fire protection for Sturdy is explained here and is much better than the 1200 degree 75 minute protection your safe offers, and they have PROOF of their safes' performance after a TOTAL burndown. Even the papers and plastic boxes survived:
http://www.sturdysafe.com/sturdy_002.htm
"...The second layer consists of a 2300 deg. U.L. listed ceramic wool. The third layer is a U.L. listed 1000 deg. glass blanket...."
I've also had lengthy conversations with their safe expert Terry who will explain the differences. The fact that he spends TIME on the phone is meaningful to me because it demonstrates their willingness to customer service.
As far as the testing goes, Liberty’s website says they heat them up, then cool them down and open them.
In a REAL fire, your valuables will be left in an unopened safe for an undetermined amount of time. IN the fireboard protected safe, that means they will bake in a sauna and be saturated with water for who knows how long. Moisture will damage papers, electronics, and metal on guns. The Sturdy safe is rated for higher temps for longer time and releases NO moisture into the safe.
3: Burglary protection: Liberty safe is 10 gauge steel (some models are less with 12 guage), 3.571875mm thick. Sturdy 7 gauge steel is 4.7625mm thick, or 25% thicker. Thinner gauge metal, such as 10 or 12 gauge, can be punched through with a fireax or screwdriver, whereas the 7 gauge steel that MY safe is made of cannot. In theory, with repeated axe strokes, someone or a pair of burglars could just carve out an opening with a fireax, and peel 10 or 12 gauge open with some pry bars and take your goods out through the side and a 1' opening. Sure, this would be noisy, but what if you're on vacation or gone for the evening? Don't know about you, but I'd rather have my valuables protected by 7 guage than 10 (or 12) guage.
I don’t know whether you bought a Liberty or how much you paid, but here’s a comparison from the website against the Sturdy safe that I bought.
Liberty:
10 gauge steel, 35 cubic feet, fireboard fire insulation, 75 minute 1200 degree protection, 960 pounds, S&G group II lock (residential grade) for $2100 (not sure if this includes delivery; if not, add about $300 for delivery).
Sturdy:
7 gauge steel, 35 cubic feet, ceramic wool and glass blanket 90 minute 2300 degree fire protection, 875 pounds, S&G commercial grade lock for $1850 delivered.
Liberties BEST safes are only 10 gauge steel. All of their safes offer only fireboard construction, and to get a Liberty safe NEAR the Sturdy characteristics in fire protection would cost over $3000!
Sturdy is CLEARY the better product in every respect. It’s got 25% thicker steel, 20% longer fire protection at 90% greater heat, a stronger and better combo lock, and lighter weight for easier moving, for much less $.
Why buy residential grade when you can buy commercial grade for less?
On google there are nearly 12 million hits for "FIRE SAFE FAILURE." As for listing failures on fire safes, I'm not interested in spending any more time on this point. Could be that there are NONE. Could be there are MANY. Could be that failures are not published on the website due to confidentiality settlements with safe companies where lawsuits are settled between the owners and the safe companies.
All I can say is that I bought a significantly better product that Liberty can offer for significantly less money and I'm 100% confident in the product and satisfied with the product and the service. That's all that matters.
Dude, you are a complete joke!
Liberty uses carbon steel.
Their better safes use 3/16 steel which is considerably thicker than 10 gauge which you falsely claim they use on all of their safes and it's also thicker than your 7 gauge sturdy safe. (Another lie from you)
You know nothing about steel. You think you can get through even 12 gauge carbon steel with a screw driver!!! I almost fell out of my chair from laughing so hard when I read that.
Nobody is arguing that sturdy doesn’t make a decent safe. Get it, chief? Hello?
If sturdy lies to their potential customers like you claim they do, why would I want anyone to deal with them even if they have nice safes?
Liberty uses carbon steel.
Their better safes use 3/16 steel which is considerably thicker than 10 gauge which you falsely claim they use on all of their safes and it's also thicker than your 7 gauge sturdy safe. (Another lie from you)
You know nothing about steel. You think you can get through even 12 gauge carbon steel with a screw driver!!! I almost fell out of my chair from laughing so hard when I read that.
Nobody is arguing that sturdy doesn’t make a decent safe. Get it, chief? Hello?
If sturdy lies to their potential customers like you claim they do, why would I want anyone to deal with them even if they have nice safes?
leadcounsel
Moderator
You’re right, liberty uses carbon steel. Good for you! It also uses 10 and 12 gauge in all but their MOST expensive safes, which cost more than $3000! For $3000-4000 you can get a Brown safe, far superior to any safe company.
As far as using a fireax to cut a hole in your safe, I’d be glad to come over and demonstrate. Yes, anyone can punch a hole through 12 carbon steel with an axe. If you’re so confident, take an axe to the back of your safe and give it a few good swings.
If you wanted a safe with the same thickness of steel that Sturdy uses in a Liberty safe, you would have to buy an “entry level” Presidential series Liberty safe for a cool $3200 for a 25 cubic foot, or $3800 for a 40 cubic foot safe, or maybe you’d prefer the Magnum series for $4300! Have fun!
As far as using a fireax to cut a hole in your safe, I’d be glad to come over and demonstrate. Yes, anyone can punch a hole through 12 carbon steel with an axe. If you’re so confident, take an axe to the back of your safe and give it a few good swings.
If you wanted a safe with the same thickness of steel that Sturdy uses in a Liberty safe, you would have to buy an “entry level” Presidential series Liberty safe for a cool $3200 for a 25 cubic foot, or $3800 for a 40 cubic foot safe, or maybe you’d prefer the Magnum series for $4300! Have fun!
See, your problem is you need to educate yourself before you bash other companies, otherwise you just look foolish. I wasn't here to bash any companies, that was all you. I just had to set the record straight. Your posts are full of lies. Finally you admit you are wrong about something and it comes with a lengthy explanation. Just admit you are wrong and move on.
P.S -- What happened to your screw driver theory? I'd love to watch that.
P.S -- What happened to your screw driver theory? I'd love to watch that.