Grizzly scenario
- Thread starter Duxman
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Mannlicher
New member
40mm Bofors
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
[repost]
Back in (I think) 1972 in Yellowstone Natl. Park, a grizzly dragged a girl out of a sleeping bag, carried her back into the woods and ate her. Made world wide news, including a big article in Life magazine. No one's sure why, but some think she may have been on her period and the smell of blood triggered the attack. A friend of mine, Jim King, was with the party of rangers assigned to track down the bear. As Jim told it, they were about 2 hours out with Jim bringing up the rear. He had an 870-P loaded with slugs. Grizzly have a nasty habit of attacking from the rear, and Jim said he just got "that feeling" and turned around just as the bear started its charge from about 20 meters. Jim told me he fired, with his first shot hitting the bear square in the chest. He said it knocked the bear back on his haunches, but it immediately got up and charged again. Jim put four more slugs into that bear before it finally dropped, almost at Jim's feet. I remember him telling me, "you know those stories about people needing a skivy change? Trust me, they're true!
" At any rate, an autopsy revealed human remains in the bear's stomach, but the biggest surprise was that it appeared that Jim's first shot basically ripped the bear's heart to shreds. That meant that the bear had continued to charge another 15 meters or so without a heart! Not to mention being hit 4 more times! Pure adrenalin! So, I don't think I'd bet all my marbles on any gun to solve the problem.
Back in (I think) 1972 in Yellowstone Natl. Park, a grizzly dragged a girl out of a sleeping bag, carried her back into the woods and ate her. Made world wide news, including a big article in Life magazine. No one's sure why, but some think she may have been on her period and the smell of blood triggered the attack. A friend of mine, Jim King, was with the party of rangers assigned to track down the bear. As Jim told it, they were about 2 hours out with Jim bringing up the rear. He had an 870-P loaded with slugs. Grizzly have a nasty habit of attacking from the rear, and Jim said he just got "that feeling" and turned around just as the bear started its charge from about 20 meters. Jim told me he fired, with his first shot hitting the bear square in the chest. He said it knocked the bear back on his haunches, but it immediately got up and charged again. Jim put four more slugs into that bear before it finally dropped, almost at Jim's feet. I remember him telling me, "you know those stories about people needing a skivy change? Trust me, they're true!
" At any rate, an autopsy revealed human remains in the bear's stomach, but the biggest surprise was that it appeared that Jim's first shot basically ripped the bear's heart to shreds. That meant that the bear had continued to charge another 15 meters or so without a heart! Not to mention being hit 4 more times! Pure adrenalin! So, I don't think I'd bet all my marbles on any gun to solve the problem.Wildalaska
Moderator
FWIW the bear in question that killed the two folks in Alaska was put down with a 350 grain Kodiak 457 magnum round fired from a 16 1/2 inch WWG Copilot...from a helicopter...
Went down with one shot, several others fired into it to make sure lights were out before the approach
WildgundropperAlaska
Went down with one shot, several others fired into it to make sure lights were out before the approach
WildgundropperAlaska
CarbineCaleb
New member
Antigrizzly dog
I think the dog idea is not a good idea. 99.99+% of grizzly encounters are not fights... bring the dog along - what are they going to do? Attack the bear, creating a problem where there was none. Recognize that even if we concentrate on grizzly country, millions of people visit there every year. And in parks throughout the US and Canada combined, I am sure it is well over 100 million visitors.
I think the dog idea is not a good idea. 99.99+% of grizzly encounters are not fights... bring the dog along - what are they going to do? Attack the bear, creating a problem where there was none. Recognize that even if we concentrate on grizzly country, millions of people visit there every year. And in parks throughout the US and Canada combined, I am sure it is well over 100 million visitors.
buffalo_bore
New member
The report said that they were attacked inside there tent, with an unused firearm found. That's pretty damn scary. All the guns in the world couldn't save those unfortunate souls.
I guess I'd carry a .454 Super Redhawk Alaskan, when mobile.
And a 12 gauge slug gun in camp.
I guess I'd carry a .454 Super Redhawk Alaskan, when mobile.
And a 12 gauge slug gun in camp.
Skeetin'870
New member
Good old sbe with a 3 1/2' shell that would stop the thing at close range. Or a .500s&w those are nice and big. Or 7mm mag for longer range
Limeyfellow
New member
There about 4 to 5 deaths caused a year by Grizzly bears which really isn't that many considering the sheer amount of people living in bear country. Its just one of those unfortante events. Usually when they go into tents like that they are looking for food and probrobly smelt what the couple had in the tent which is one of the reasons you want the food in a locked thick metal box away from you. Take care of garbage. Fire helps to keep them away as they can sense that from some space away. I guess they find it easier to smell than the roots that make up most their diet. Unless its a specially trained dog, its best to leave them at home. They will cause more problems than it is worth usually. Of course stay off bear paths, and try and alert bears your in the area so not to shock them. You can also set up a tripwire with an alarm if you felt the need too and that sound will usually scare of the bear without having to shoot it. If you do come in physical contact it helps to play dead and hope they leave you alone but if they start to try and eat you, you really have to fightback.
As for arms a good 12 gauge shotgun full with slugs helps and I tend to also use a .45 caliber pistol, but I must admit I haven't been more than a couple of times in bear country. The most I ever had attack me was a rabid bobcat.
Most the deaths happen where hunters accidently startle the grizzly, or sometimes to protect a carcass. Its very unusual for them to predate on humans and when they do they normally have rabies and such, much like you'll find in other species.
As for arms a good 12 gauge shotgun full with slugs helps and I tend to also use a .45 caliber pistol, but I must admit I haven't been more than a couple of times in bear country. The most I ever had attack me was a rabid bobcat.
Most the deaths happen where hunters accidently startle the grizzly, or sometimes to protect a carcass. Its very unusual for them to predate on humans and when they do they normally have rabies and such, much like you'll find in other species.
Grizzlies 4 - People 2
I have pictures and some where the news stories (its all on the net) of a griz that decided several years ago in Alaska that hunting hikers was lots easier then anything else and got 1 or 2. State Dept of the Interior flew up to look for a missing hiker and when they landed the griz charged them from the brush. The bear took 7 (SEVEN) rounds from a .375 H+H mag before giving up. Even then it took 2 to the head to finish! A picture shows the shooter holding up the bears paw and its bigger then the span of his chest! They found well chewed pieces of the missing hiker and the hiker’s .38 spl revolver (!!!!!??? ). The hiker had put 2 or 3 rounds from the .38 into the bear before becoming kibble. That bear is supposed to be now stuffed and mounted in the airport to greet and caution Alaskan visitors.
Don't forget the more recent self proclaimed "grizzly expert" from (where else?) Kalifornia who was doing video in Alaska with his girlfriend acouple of years ago. He was making a living selling the film and on the net taking donations talking about "brownies" as Alaskans call grizzlies. The guy was one of those "bears are big soft teddy's" and refused to carry any firearm around his "friends". WEll guess what apparently (?) the "friends" decided enough friendship and started to eat him. His girlfriend tried to save him by hitting the griz on the head with a frying pan (!! ), had guts I'll give her that, but the griz had her for desert!! Thing is he was videoing at the time and when he dropped the video camera the sound kept being recorded! Scariest thing I have ever heard!! Still gives me the willies at night some times....
].12 ga slugs in a Mossberg 500A pistol grip on a sling carried ALL the time!
S+W .44 mag revolver for backup!!
Although when camping in Washington State with our much less aggressive brown bears and occasional cougar (Go Dogs!) I am totally comfortable with a Colt Delta 10mm 180 gr soft points under my arm, again ALL the time. More afraid of two legged predators than any Washington animal. Kalifornian mountain lions though are making a human hunting come back recently as well!
And don't forget our eco nut friends have forced the reintroduction of wolves across the mid western states in the last five years. They should start racking up a score soon as they get organized!!
I have pictures and some where the news stories (its all on the net) of a griz that decided several years ago in Alaska that hunting hikers was lots easier then anything else and got 1 or 2. State Dept of the Interior flew up to look for a missing hiker and when they landed the griz charged them from the brush. The bear took 7 (SEVEN) rounds from a .375 H+H mag before giving up. Even then it took 2 to the head to finish! A picture shows the shooter holding up the bears paw and its bigger then the span of his chest! They found well chewed pieces of the missing hiker and the hiker’s .38 spl revolver (!!!!!???
). The hiker had put 2 or 3 rounds from the .38 into the bear before becoming kibble. That bear is supposed to be now stuffed and mounted in the airport to greet and caution Alaskan visitors.Don't forget the more recent self proclaimed "grizzly expert" from (where else?) Kalifornia who was doing video in Alaska with his girlfriend acouple of years ago. He was making a living selling the film and on the net taking donations talking about "brownies" as Alaskans call grizzlies. The guy was one of those "bears are big soft teddy's" and refused to carry any firearm around his "friends". WEll guess what apparently (?) the "friends" decided enough friendship and started to eat him. His girlfriend tried to save him by hitting the griz on the head with a frying pan (!!
), had guts I'll give her that, but the griz had her for desert!! Thing is he was videoing at the time and when he dropped the video camera the sound kept being recorded! Scariest thing I have ever heard!! Still gives me the willies at night some times....].12 ga slugs in a Mossberg 500A pistol grip on a sling carried ALL the time!
S+W .44 mag revolver for backup!!
Although when camping in Washington State with our much less aggressive brown bears and occasional cougar (Go Dogs!) I am totally comfortable with a Colt Delta 10mm 180 gr soft points under my arm, again ALL the time. More afraid of two legged predators than any Washington animal. Kalifornian mountain lions though are making a human hunting come back recently as well!
And don't forget our eco nut friends have forced the reintroduction of wolves across the mid western states in the last five years. They should start racking up a score soon as they get organized!!
"first shot basically ripped the bear's heart to shreds. That meant that the bear had continued to charge another 15 meters or so without a heart!"
A heart shot isn't a "stopping" shot on anything, and is not to be recomended. Even deer that are heart shot take off like you lit a fire under them. It's not a surprise to anyone that's hunted that a heart shot bear doesn't drop dead at the shot. Breaking the spine, on larger animals, or a head shot are stopping shots. Broken leg, shoulder or hips bones slow them down some.
Never heard of a bear with rabies. Do they get rabies?
Something that surprises me, is the wanting there to be a "reason" for the bear to predate on people. True, it isn't common in the greater sceme of things, but there isn't anything that's so special about humans that make bear magicaly avoid us at any cost. We flatter ourselves to think there HAS to be some reason or circumstance for a bear to attack a human. Maybe the ones that do, just decide they WANT to. Do they need any more reason than that? They are career predators. They do this for a living. Kill and eat stuff. Sometimes they try something different, and sometimes they realize how easy people are (usually).
I live in grizzly country, but have had no trouble with them. In this area there are commonly 2 to 4 "incidents" a year between bears and people. Some involve shooting, some don't. I take my dogs when out and not actually hunting, and always carry a Browing 1886 carbine, and a Ruger 45 Colt with heavy 325 gr loads.
A heart shot isn't a "stopping" shot on anything, and is not to be recomended. Even deer that are heart shot take off like you lit a fire under them. It's not a surprise to anyone that's hunted that a heart shot bear doesn't drop dead at the shot. Breaking the spine, on larger animals, or a head shot are stopping shots. Broken leg, shoulder or hips bones slow them down some.
Never heard of a bear with rabies. Do they get rabies?
Something that surprises me, is the wanting there to be a "reason" for the bear to predate on people. True, it isn't common in the greater sceme of things, but there isn't anything that's so special about humans that make bear magicaly avoid us at any cost. We flatter ourselves to think there HAS to be some reason or circumstance for a bear to attack a human. Maybe the ones that do, just decide they WANT to. Do they need any more reason than that? They are career predators. They do this for a living. Kill and eat stuff. Sometimes they try something different, and sometimes they realize how easy people are (usually).
I live in grizzly country, but have had no trouble with them. In this area there are commonly 2 to 4 "incidents" a year between bears and people. Some involve shooting, some don't. I take my dogs when out and not actually hunting, and always carry a Browing 1886 carbine, and a Ruger 45 Colt with heavy 325 gr loads.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
You guys will beleive anyhting
WildwhatatalltaleAlaska
black bear 84
New member
I wonder what the firearm was and how much time, if any they have to repel the attack, it is my theory that there should have been some time while the bear is killing one person for the other to shoot at the bear.
The case of Timothy Treadwell (author of Among Grizzlies) and Amie Huguenard that were killed and eaten by a Grizzly in October 2003 in Alaska’s Kaflia Bay demonstrated that there was plenty of time for a gun to have been used (no gun was available) thanks to a video camera left on that recorded the panic struggle of both people (on sound only) and the subsequent feeding noises that the bear was making.
Bears, being nocturnal, mostly attack when people are sleeping and secured in their bags. I always advocate the use of an early prevention system, and a kit capable to repel an attacking bear.
In the picture you can see my kit, consisting of a screaming siren that is attached with Para-cord to the perimeter of the campsite. Also the newer addition of the Driveway Patrol Infrared Sensor, available thru Heartland catalogue and in the $30.00 range.
The Colt Anaconda in .44 Magnum will be okay to repel an attacking black bear. If I were camping in Alaska I will want to upgrade to a .45 Casull or one of the Bowen Custom revolvers.
Also I think that having a Marlin 450 or 45-70 with custom loads will not be too much out of line when camping and hiking in Grizzly territory.
The flashlight is not the regular Maglite 3 “D” that output 39 lumens but a special modification I do that outputs 951 lumens, making it the most powerful flashlight in the world. (I am selling my modifications to members of this Forum)
I have camped in the wild for many years and I have had a few encounters with black bears. They can be very unpredictable and you never will know when they will decide to make trouble for you.
Better be prepared.
Best regards,
Black bear 84
__________________
The case of Timothy Treadwell (author of Among Grizzlies) and Amie Huguenard that were killed and eaten by a Grizzly in October 2003 in Alaska’s Kaflia Bay demonstrated that there was plenty of time for a gun to have been used (no gun was available) thanks to a video camera left on that recorded the panic struggle of both people (on sound only) and the subsequent feeding noises that the bear was making.
Bears, being nocturnal, mostly attack when people are sleeping and secured in their bags. I always advocate the use of an early prevention system, and a kit capable to repel an attacking bear.
In the picture you can see my kit, consisting of a screaming siren that is attached with Para-cord to the perimeter of the campsite. Also the newer addition of the Driveway Patrol Infrared Sensor, available thru Heartland catalogue and in the $30.00 range.
The Colt Anaconda in .44 Magnum will be okay to repel an attacking black bear. If I were camping in Alaska I will want to upgrade to a .45 Casull or one of the Bowen Custom revolvers.
Also I think that having a Marlin 450 or 45-70 with custom loads will not be too much out of line when camping and hiking in Grizzly territory.
The flashlight is not the regular Maglite 3 “D” that output 39 lumens but a special modification I do that outputs 951 lumens, making it the most powerful flashlight in the world. (I am selling my modifications to members of this Forum)
I have camped in the wild for many years and I have had a few encounters with black bears. They can be very unpredictable and you never will know when they will decide to make trouble for you.
Better be prepared.
Best regards,
Black bear 84
__________________
"first shot basically ripped the bear's heart to shreds. That meant that the bear had continued to charge another 15 meters or so without a heart!"
In my hunter's education class they specifically discussed how to handle a "grizzly situation." They noted that the grizzly's heart is very large, and can continue to pump blood for several minutes, even if it takes a direct hit. Their recommendation was to break down the bear's mobility thru a shoulder shot.
Also, do a lot of side-stepping. This will force a bear to stop and readjust its charge, as they charge in straight lines towards their target.
Finally, when coming up on a bear, do not make direct eye contact. Making eye contact assumes an aggressive posture to the bear. Look at him out of the corners of your eyes (unless its too late!) and slowly back away.
In my hunter's education class they specifically discussed how to handle a "grizzly situation." They noted that the grizzly's heart is very large, and can continue to pump blood for several minutes, even if it takes a direct hit. Their recommendation was to break down the bear's mobility thru a shoulder shot.
Also, do a lot of side-stepping. This will force a bear to stop and readjust its charge, as they charge in straight lines towards their target.
Finally, when coming up on a bear, do not make direct eye contact. Making eye contact assumes an aggressive posture to the bear. Look at him out of the corners of your eyes (unless its too late!
) and slowly back away.Firepower vs. Barehands
From MS NBC today:
NAIROBI - A 73-year-old Kenyan grandfather reached into the mouth of an attacking leopard and tore out its tongue to kill it, authorities said Wednesday.
Peasant farmer Daniel M’Mburugu was tending to his potato and bean crops in a rural area near Mount Kenya when the leopard charged out of the long grass and leapt on him.
M’Mburugu had a machete in one hand but dropped that to thrust his fist down the leopard’s mouth. He gradually managed to pull out the animal’s tongue, leaving it in its death-throes.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
“It let out a blood-curdling snarl that made the birds stop chirping,” he told the daily Standard newspaper of how the leopard came at him and knocked him over.
The leopard sank its teeth into the farmer’s wrist and mauled him with its claws. “A voice, which must have come from God, whispered to me to drop the panga (machete) and thrust my hand in its wide-open mouth. I obeyed,” M’Mburugu said.
As the leopard was dying, a neighbor heard the screams and arrived to finish it off with a machete.
M’Mburugu was toasted as a hero in his village Kihato after the incident earlier this month. He was also given free hospital treatment by astonished local authorities.
“This guy is very lucky to be alive,” Kenya Wildlife Service official Connie Maina told Reuters, confirming details of the incident.
Too bad that Bear expert was not as brave as this 73 year old grandfather - he might be alive.
From MS NBC today:
NAIROBI - A 73-year-old Kenyan grandfather reached into the mouth of an attacking leopard and tore out its tongue to kill it, authorities said Wednesday.
Peasant farmer Daniel M’Mburugu was tending to his potato and bean crops in a rural area near Mount Kenya when the leopard charged out of the long grass and leapt on him.
M’Mburugu had a machete in one hand but dropped that to thrust his fist down the leopard’s mouth. He gradually managed to pull out the animal’s tongue, leaving it in its death-throes.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
“It let out a blood-curdling snarl that made the birds stop chirping,” he told the daily Standard newspaper of how the leopard came at him and knocked him over.
The leopard sank its teeth into the farmer’s wrist and mauled him with its claws. “A voice, which must have come from God, whispered to me to drop the panga (machete) and thrust my hand in its wide-open mouth. I obeyed,” M’Mburugu said.
As the leopard was dying, a neighbor heard the screams and arrived to finish it off with a machete.
M’Mburugu was toasted as a hero in his village Kihato after the incident earlier this month. He was also given free hospital treatment by astonished local authorities.
“This guy is very lucky to be alive,” Kenya Wildlife Service official Connie Maina told Reuters, confirming details of the incident.
Too bad that Bear expert was not as brave as this 73 year old grandfather - he might be alive.