Glock Safe Action Unsafe?
- Thread starter Nathan
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I pretty much hate Glocks, but they are a weapon that does what they are designed to do and I can't say anything bad about them. My hatred is from ergonomics, not function.
I've managed to carry guns with no manual safeties for DECADES and have never had a problem. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you're ready to shoot..........
This suit SHOULD be a loser. The attorney SHOULD be able to walk into court, lay down 4 pieces of paper, then go to lunch:
1) The owner's manual for the pistol.
2) The commonly accepted rules for safe firearm handling.
3) The moron's training records showing that he has safely qualified with that pistol (X) number of times and he and pistol were found in good working order.
4) The moron's department policy for safely handling firearms.
I carry a 1911 in a Serpa everyday and haven't shot anything I didn't want to. Yes!!!!!!!! Let's blame everything but the moron who pulled the trigger....... It seems to the "Murican way these days..........
Lots do. At least 2 state agencies issue them where I am.
I would have no problem doing this if all 1911's had the built in internal safeties that a Glock had.
-The Glock firing pin is under no tension when the gun is "ready". Tension is -created when the trigger is pulled, so the gun is never really "cocked" for any length of time, unless you hold the trigger partially back all the time. The 1911 hammer is under pressure when "ready" and only held by the sear notch, which could be disengaged in a drop.
-The Glock has a firing pin block safety (drop safety) that disengages when the trigger is pulled. Some 1911's have it and some don't.
-The Glock trigger has a safety that must be disengaged by whatever is pulling the trigger for the trigger to be able to move rearward. The 1911 has no such thing.
-The length the trigger on the Glock has to travel to achieve a discharge is MUCH farther than that of the 1911. The length of travel and building pressure give you a remote chance to realize something's wrong when re-holstering the Glock vs. the 1911.
You see the common theme. Keep you dang finger off the trigger. I get your point, but you're trying to compare apples to watermelons............
They have several........... at no extra charge and with no moving parts to wear/replace.
^^^^^^^^^^ This sums it up^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Cheaper and more sure result to settle as opposed to taking your chances with a California jury or either of the defective design theories.
Guy leaves a loaded Glock 21 in an Uncle Mike's nylon holster in the backseat with his unrestrained 3yr old and then has the nerve to sue Glock for defective design. He needs a good old fashioned Puritan shaming.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
He did end up paralyzed, losing his job, nearly got prosecuted for endangerment and lost his kids, and it took eight years to get a settlement that I imagine was light. I would not wish any of that on anyone.
i accept the premise that an external safety is a great idea, that a trigger should be a bit heavier, that the thing needs other measures to keep it safe for use by careless people.
Don't fart around with a gun like that. You guys probably realize that he fired it with the back of one of his other fingers.
How in hell can he sue glock? he either bought it and ignored common safety procedures that were outlined in the manual, or he was issued the thing and ignored common safety procedures and training provided by his department that were specific to the pistol.
That was a moment of carelessness that cost him a lot of trouble.
Don't fart around with a gun like that. You guys probably realize that he fired it with the back of one of his other fingers.
How in hell can he sue glock? he either bought it and ignored common safety procedures that were outlined in the manual, or he was issued the thing and ignored common safety procedures and training provided by his department that were specific to the pistol.
That was a moment of carelessness that cost him a lot of trouble.
I think that an optional manual safety or a heavy trigger would have been an important addition.
It works for the M&P, right? It could be done for the glock. If they start losing suits, it will probably because of the decision to not provide optional safety features.
Legal situations are complicated and god knows what will wind up happening after thousands of hours are expended making the decision, but there is a possibility that the lack of an external safety, in this case, was more at fault than the guy forgetting to unload his chamber and magazine.
Myself, before I started farting around like that I'd field strip it and handle the slide alone.
It works for the M&P, right? It could be done for the glock. If they start losing suits, it will probably because of the decision to not provide optional safety features.
Legal situations are complicated and god knows what will wind up happening after thousands of hours are expended making the decision, but there is a possibility that the lack of an external safety, in this case, was more at fault than the guy forgetting to unload his chamber and magazine.
Myself, before I started farting around like that I'd field strip it and handle the slide alone.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Looking for a settlement is what is really going on. The amount will be secret. It happens all the time.
The discussion of what is safe is really irrelevant as folks shoot themselves with everything and sue about everything.
It's all about happy lawyers.
That being said, as a professional - I would be embarrassed to bring this suit. However, if I got enough I would overcome that. Cynic!
The discussion of what is safe is really irrelevant as folks shoot themselves with everything and sue about everything.
It's all about happy lawyers.
That being said, as a professional - I would be embarrassed to bring this suit. However, if I got enough I would overcome that. Cynic!
Double Naught Spy
New member
No, he probably fired it with his trigger finger in normal firing position. I would further speculate that it was probably a sympathetic constriction of his trigger finger (and hand) as he attempted to pull on the light with his opposite hand.
This is assuming he wasn't just farting around, shot himself in the foot, and is blaming the gun for his gross negligence.
There is no reason a light cannot be mounted onto the load gun, assuming you keep your finger away from the trigger.
I did a little bit of handling my own glock, assuming that he was putting on a light and pointing the thing at his feet. I couldn't really do that with my trigger finger in firing position. One of the positions that looked plausible was grasping the slide in the fist with a finger in the guard, the slide against the palm, pointed downward as he tried to force the light onto the rail.
That's what it looked like to me. I obviously may be wrong, but I did experiment with it and that seemed to be a likely scenario.
That's what it looked like to me. I obviously may be wrong, but I did experiment with it and that seemed to be a likely scenario.
Did you do this with your pistol pointed down at your foot, with your finger on the trigger, etc?
I simply could not hold a pistol in my right hand, in a normal handling position, and put a device onto the rail at the back of the frame. With it pointed downwards I could only do it with my hands wrapped around the slide with my fingers on the back.
It sure seemed to me that I need a table to do that sort of thing, or at least a lap.
Wethepeople01
New member
Glock still makes a fine duty weapon! Trigger control is essential. Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until ready to fire. Simple. I tend to fault the shooter and not the weapon in cases of "Glock Leg". Poor souls.. I carried G22 on duty and off for years. No problems whatsoever. (Knock on wood!). Today, as a civilian, I must admit that I like the added external safety in the form of a lever safety or backstrap. Better safe than sorry. With enough range time and practice, disengaging the safety is a no brainer.
I ran across what I thought was a pretty fair description of how to operate a GLock in some fiction. Hero hands his lady a Glock (because she'll need it soon), and explains it to her this way...
he drops the loaded mag and shows it to her..
"This is the gas tank"
Inserts the mag and cycles the slide..
"the engine is now running"
He points to the trigger..
"this is the gas pedal"
Where's the brake?"
she asks..
"There is no brake!"
The car comparison got my thinking, it only works at certain points, but one of them is that on the semi auto pistol, the manual safety is sort of like the shift lever of an automatic transmission. You can pull the trigger (step on the gas) but when you are in park (safety ON), you don't go anywhere (shoot), until you move that lever.
Here's another couple points to consider, first, the idea of doing ANYTHING to a loaded gun. The ONLY time its right to work on a loaded gun is when you are doing it to clear a round stuck in it. Otherwise, unload it, then do whatever.
Is there REALLY a possible tactical situation requiring one to be able to attach a light to a pistol without clearing the chamber FIRST??
Second, it is possible that maybe he didn't pull the trigger because of attaching the light, directly. Possible that he fumbled, slipped, nearly dropped the gun, grabbed it, and pulled the trigger accidently during that, and isn't remotely going to admit it.
More than one person, even a famous sports figure, has had GLocks go off when they ALMOST dropped them, and grabbed the gun to prevent it.
he drops the loaded mag and shows it to her..
"This is the gas tank"
Inserts the mag and cycles the slide..
"the engine is now running"
He points to the trigger..
"this is the gas pedal"
Where's the brake?"
she asks..
"There is no brake!"
The car comparison got my thinking, it only works at certain points, but one of them is that on the semi auto pistol, the manual safety is sort of like the shift lever of an automatic transmission. You can pull the trigger (step on the gas) but when you are in park (safety ON), you don't go anywhere (shoot), until you move that lever.
Here's another couple points to consider, first, the idea of doing ANYTHING to a loaded gun. The ONLY time its right to work on a loaded gun is when you are doing it to clear a round stuck in it. Otherwise, unload it, then do whatever.
Is there REALLY a possible tactical situation requiring one to be able to attach a light to a pistol without clearing the chamber FIRST??
Second, it is possible that maybe he didn't pull the trigger because of attaching the light, directly. Possible that he fumbled, slipped, nearly dropped the gun, grabbed it, and pulled the trigger accidently during that, and isn't remotely going to admit it.
More than one person, even a famous sports figure, has had GLocks go off when they ALMOST dropped them, and grabbed the gun to prevent it.
turtlehead
New member
Only a fool would work on a loaded weapon. His guns should be taken from him and he should be fired. He is a danger to himself and others.
Yup, don't work on a loaded gun and keep your d@mn fool finger off the trigger.
*I remember a few years back where a police department officers were having accident discharge with Glock pistols.........tuned out they would (re)holster their pistols with a finger on the trigger!
*I remember a few years back where a police department officers were having accident discharge with Glock pistols.........tuned out they would (re)holster their pistols with a finger on the trigger!
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