getting a new squirrel gun...

was browsing the www today, & found a recipe for 25 ACP, using #3 buck shot at .250" in the 25 ACP... loads will cycle the lil autos, might be something worth experimenting with in the revolver for squirrel & rabbits ??? would have to see how the accuracy is...

I use soft lead round balls for gallery loads in 32 & 38 S&W, & accuracy is OK at closer distances...

I think it was BPI that had nickelled lead shot, which would likely not be what I was looking for, but I also found some plain lead...

hoping to hear the project Blackhawk arrives at Cabelas either Friday or Saturday :)
 
Last edited:
Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.
Click to expand...
Hey Bob, that is good enough to use for a sig line.

Magnum Wheel Man, interesting projet. I am thinking you are going to have to make a new cylinder, are you going to keep it a six shot or maybe go for seven or eight? Your other project you reduced from 10 shot to eight so maybe that is within you skills. Just a thought.
 
BILL... yes, thanks for clarifying... #3 buck would be .025"

JT... it will be at least 8... might even be able to fit 10 rounds in the Blackhawk cylinder ???
 
Last edited:
Nothing more dangerous then a gun nut with a lathe and milling machine.

Wished I'd never read this post, now I have to buy a Ruger Single Six.

I wont go into the dumb stuff I tried, I'd be committed.

But this project shows merit.
 
thanks KRAIG... I'll keep posting, as the build begins, but should actually ( barring any unforeseen issues ), be one of the easier conversions we've done
 
got a call, my revolver is in... so I'll pick it up this afternoon... probably shoot it ( in 357 ) this weekend, to make sure everything is "right" to start with, then it'll go to my machinist on Monday to begin the conversion...

he doesn't have any stainless cylinder stock right now ( I think I've run him out :o ) but we'll start doing some measuring & see how many chambers the Blackhawk cylinder will hold... also need to get a finish reamer from PTG yet...
 
ordering a ft of 1.75" round bar 416 stainless from McMaster Carr this week, for the cylinder ( & a couple extras ), as well as the 25 ACP finish reamer
 
the 416 stainless Cylinder Stock, & 25 ACP reamer are on their way ( as well as 100 boxer primed brass cases in 7.62 X 54, as part payment for my machinist buddy ;) )

things will start happening pretty fast after the cylinder stock gets here, likely on Monday
 
I'm picking my new squirrel pistol tomorrow.
 

Attachments

  • Buck Mark Plus Stainless Black Laminated UDX.jpg
    Buck Mark Plus Stainless Black Laminated UDX.jpg
    51.9 KB · Views: 41
Magnum Wheel Man,

Are you going to keep the cylinder the same length? I would be extra work and machining but wanted to ask. I had a Ruger convertible 45 and we discussed the freebore in the cylinder before bullet reaching the forcing cone and rifling. No real concensus on whether this was a good or bad thing.

If you wouldn't mind sharing your thinking on this.

Thanks!
James
 
JT... that's a good question... my experience in the past, is jacketed bullets won't suffer much by the cylinder leade, but cast bullets may ( this is often dependent on velocities ) ... I'm hoping to be able to fire both well in this gun

from a looks point of view I hate short cylinders in bigger frames, however since this is ( hopefully ) a 50 yard "minute of squirrel" gun, this is
what we've discussed so far... my machinist buddy is concerned about the volume of gas in a 25 ACP cartridge, & his experience on small cartridges in cylinders just over their cartridge length, is lower velocities, barrel length, for barrel length, over longer cylinders ( talking specifically 22 LR ) because the barrel cylinder gap is just off the case mouth, thus there is more pressure bleed off...

what we have determined, is that both the cylinder throat diameter, ( which is one of the reasons we've already slugged the barrel liner ) & a smaller than normal barrel / cylinder gap will be critical to being able to fire normal pressure factory ball ammo reliably in this gun... by keeping the cylinder longer, we are using a cylinder that is nearly identical to the length of an auto pistol barrel, which is typically only 2" in the 25 ACP guns... the bullet should have full auto pistol velocity by the time it hits the forcing cone... by tightly controlling the chamber throat diameter, cylinder gap, & forcing cone's shape, we are hoping to keep cast bullet accuracy above average, as well as jacketed bullet reliability ( my builder buddy is quite conservative, but he's concerned that if there was too much pressure bleed off, on a cartridge with so little gas volume, that the jacketed bullet may stick in the barrel ) I'm less conservative, & look at even CB caps & the Colibri & Super Colibri ammo I shoot in antique revolvers, some of which only use priming compound, the bullets don't lodge in the barrels... but they are not FMJ bullets either... by using factory pressures, & soft to medium cast bullet hardness, I'm sure we will not see enough bullet deformation to effect accuracy... with the tight tolerances & specially shaped forcing cone we are using in this build

the gun will be heavy for this caliber, & shortening the cylinder would cut down on the weight, but we are hoping we have thought out how to have it shooting great with a full length cylinder...
 
Last edited:
Magnum Wheel Man,

Thanks for the thoughful reply! Sometimes you just have to actually build the thing to find out.

I was getting some impressive velocity numbers from 45 ACP out of the convertible I had (sold to my son so I still get to shoot it every now and then). But I was also using magnum pistol powders (H110 & AA#9). I always wondered if the long cylinder lead didn't also contribute to the extra velocity. We also discussed if the bullet contacting the rifling at velocity may damage the rifling over time. No one that had shot a convertible reported any.

This has also got me thinking about a 357 Mag Dan Wesson I have. It had an 8inch barrel when I bought it. I later bought a 4 inch barrel from EWK. Barrel liner you are using for your build would have to be turned or ground down to the correct diameter and threaded on both ends (4 inch barrel tube measures .527 in. diam) and a new cylinder made. Probably have to remain a 6 shot if you wanted to be able to change back to 357 Mag when you wanted. I also kicked around in my head the idea of 25 ACP inserts to place in the existing 357 Mag cylinder. Probably a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

Thanks for keeping us up to date.
James
 
Interestingly, my other fabricator buddy suggested doing rifled chamber inserts, instead of converting the gun... on this I want to build a solid/ accurate hunting grade gun...

but I do have an antique 30 Rimfire revolver ( I won't keep any antique guns if they are not at least "shootable" & there is really no 30 Rimfire ammo )

the same guy that's building this revolver made me a set of rifled chamber inserts out of an old 22 lr barrel... that fit tight into the 30 rimfire chambers & the stock cylinder throats... they are held in place by friction fit, & a little sleeve retainer, which could be polished out later if someone wanted to remove the inserts... I shoot super colibris in the gun, & they hold 4" or so groups at 25ft... not too bad for an antique spur trigger gun...

rifled sections of the chamber inserts are only 7/16" - 1/2" long, but must be enough to get the bullet spinning... it doesn't seem to touch the inside of the 4" 30 caliber barrel
 
I have always read that the .25 is inherently extremely accurate when fired out of a long barrel, and I believe it has something to do with the ratio of its proportions (bullet to case).

Sadly, it's gotten a bad rap because it has pretty much been restricted to small vest pocket autos of varying quality.

This project sounds like it has some pretty good potential.
 
I am thinking you are right that you would never get the accuracy you want with only rifled inserts. Would be rotating 6 different barrels. Inserts would have to be held in the cylinders some way to offset the torque applied by the rifling otherwise they would spin, a problem you solved with the sleeve retainer.

A revolver that can shoot 410 shotgun shells could probably make rifled inserts work but you would still have 6 different barrels so accuracy would never be ideal. Off topic,,, I know but if I had one of these I would be tempted to try.

Best of luck with your project and let us know how it comes out.
James
 
my buddy came over to shoot on Sunday... brought me a little ( very little ) present... a couple 55 grain ( after lubing ) flat point .251 bullets... apparently while he was waiting for parts, ( & he's been on a mold building phase right now, for himself ) he's made me a 5 cavity mold, & the bullets look pretty nice... not sure if they'd function reliably in the pocket autos, but look like they should work well in the revolver :)

... Big Brown truck just brought my 1.75" round rod 416 easy to machine stainless this morning... cylinder work will begin today... he already started the 2 piece jig he uses to build & time the cylinder, the test cylinder base ( part of the 2 piece jig he builds ) has 8 ratchet teeth cut, once he knows the stock hand will work ( or if he has to make a new hand ) he'll start cutting the matching ratchet teeth in the new stainless cylinder stock...
 
Last edited:
Good & Bad news today ...:confused:

initially the test fixture wasn't cycling at 8 shots, then my buddy noticed that the gun has somewhat of a factory defect, ( which is what it must be, as the gun looked as if it had only fired the factory test case ) the slot that the cylinder stop pin goes through the frame was oversized, & it was binding... a small block, or a thicker than stock cylinder stop pin, at the area it goes through the frame would be the permanent fix, & after looking at it, he made a new hand, & the gun's test cylinder now cycles perfectly with 8 index spots, but the cylinder stop pin needs some attention, as we'll be looking for a bank vault tight lock up ... so I'll stop by tonight & we'll explore our options on tightening up the cylinder stop pin, then, he'll cut the 8 ratchet teeth on the stainless cylinder tomorrow... we'll still waiting on the 25 ACP reamer... but there is still other work to do ( like getting the liner installed, & the balance of the new cylinder work done )
 
Last edited:
I wish I were there, unless it was in the Winter, to observe. It sounds like a real educational endeavor.

Yes, I have been to Apple Valley for a few weeks in the Winter. How do you folks stand it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top