Get the right CCW weapon

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I don't like the "dont draw within 30 feet" comment. I am not a LEO but a lot of the LEO training footage I have looked at on the interweb and such seems to show ways around a close advancing target; such as stepping back or using your "weak" arm to hold the suspect at bay for the few seconds it takes to get your gun out of the holster. Reaction time is also a big factor; while I doubt many of us are regular lone rangers unless the bad guy has zeroed in on you as a threat I highly doubt they will have the time to mentally process what is going on and close the distance of 30 feet in time to not get lit up.
 
I don't understand the advice that if your "attacker" is within 30 feet, do not attempt to draw a concealed handgun and fire it.
What is the alternative? Let an attacker get to hand-to-hand range? First, as other posters have noted, most gunfights occur at closer ranges than 30 feet [see the NYPD SOF data].
Further, if you are restricting shooting distance to greater than 30 feet, in many jurisdictions you are not legally permitted to use deadly force because you would not have a reasonable basis for fearing for your own safety, unless an attacker more than 30 feet away was pointing a gun at you.
 
This is a dead post. The guy came on the FL and started a rant on tactical bla bla. There is no one right way to train, as whatever could happen is completely unpredictable. You need to become as proficient as possible with your self defense weapon, have an educated and alert mind, and react to the threat at hand with immmediate decisions. Know the law, know your gun, know yourself, and let the rest fall into place.
 
Its easy to go to the range and practice a quick clear and fire under X amount of time. Its a completely different situation when you are not ready for an attack. Attackers don't stop and say I am about to rush you with a knife, or gun, or whatever. It will be a deliberate attack at your most vulnerable time. So at 30 feet, which is a long distance for an attack, you have to have your recognition, reaction, draw and fire time under 1.5 seconds.
Say what you will, brag about how quick you can fire in your backyard, but in the real world chances are you will be dead.
I can find many instances where individuals were successful in defending themselves with a handgun in close quarters. But look at the overall statistics and you will find that for every successful defense there are about 1000 deaths.

Here is an intersting article...
http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/articles/non-firearms-defensive-tools/don-t-bring-a-gun-to-a-knife-fight/

So argue with me, call me stupid or "A troll". (lol, I like that one) but if people will at least think about what I said and consider it during their training, then its a helpfull statement.
 
Darren, bring a training contact type weapon, I will bring a blue gun, and you can attack me. Then we will see if you would have disarmed me, or I would have shot you while avoiding major injury.

My money would be on me.

Training matters.

Your advice, as initially given, was horrible. Your revision is somewhat better.

Again, who trained you?
 
But still you would be expecting it, if it was a set up scenario. In real life you would not have that luxury. Even in a set up scenario THE AVERAGE PERSON who carries a handgun would not have time. So your proposal would not reflect accurate data.

I am in Springfield, and would be more than happy to arrange a time when you could come down and shot with us on our private tactical ranges. We try to simulate, as close as possible, real life scenarios.

And I will always stand behind my statement...If you are not trained in QCB situations with a handgun, Do Not Draw if you attacker is within 30 ft until you have defended the initial attack.
 
Darren, your “30 foot” idea is a bit off. It started in LE training and began at 21 feet, and then some time back extended to 33 feet. It is based on a dedicated attacker who advances on an officer while the officer's weapon is holstered and under retention. The attacker will get to the officer, if the LEO is stagnant and simply try’s to draw his weapon without moving off the attack line, before the officer can clear holster and fire. Action beats reaction every time! This was intended to teach LEOs the importance of the "flanking" step, weak hand strikes, ect. and in no way meant to tell the officer not to draw, rather to become fluid and GTFO the line! From concealment, the distance is a bit grater, but the principals of movement and defensive strikes still apply. I think you were given a grain of information without an explanation as to the purpose behind the information. Train to move while you draw, shoot and reload, fights are fluid!
 
Darren, a couple things...

1) For every successful defense, there are thousands of deaths? And you say the statistics bear this out? You are saying you have statistics that thousands of people, who are carrying guns, and who attempt to draw those guns, are killed by contact-weapon armed bad guys for every successful person who draws a weapon? Please provide your evidence, as this claim seems preposterous on its face.

2) Springfield, where? If Missouri, that's 225 or so miles from where I live. This makes it a relatively high amount of effort... but that doesn't mean I won't do it. If you can provide me with a verifiable facility (IE one with a verifiable address, affiliated with a reputable training organization that will vouch for them), and they will vouch for you, then I'll find a time in the next couple weeks where I will drive to Springfield and test your theory.

If you are talking Illinois or Massachusetts, then you are out of range. But another TFLer might be able to test your theories, in such a case.
 
Oh, another thing, Darren... you say a realistic scenario would involve a completely unsuspecting "victim." In that case, all "realistic" attacks will take place well inside 30 ft, making your theory untestable.

Bit of a problem, that.
 
Darren,

The article brings up some good points, but basically it comes down to "do what you have time to do" ... I sure as heck am not going to wait around for an attacker to close the distance. If the perp is already there, then you have no choice but to parry and then draw when you get the chance ... it is a matter of doing what you have time to do.

But look at the overall statistics and you will find that for every successful defense there are about 1000 deaths.
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As for this claim of 1000 to 1 ... I'd like to see a reference to the study that gave you this data. Those are indeed long odds and would merit consideration.

Bottom line is that if someone comes at you with a knife and they are at contact range, you had better be REALLY good at your open hand responses, otherwise you are going to get hurt really badly. The article you mentioned makes it sound like your average Joe is going to be able to parry and counter ... if you think that CCW's are being optimistic, THAT same criticism holds true in spades for the open hand defense against a knife.

Saands
 
if people will at least think about what I said and consider it during their training, then its a helpfull statement.
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I thought about it, and in my opinion, your ideals are still bogus.

People do train at close range, I mean toe to toe. Its common to teach push/jab with your none firing hand to the face of the attacker, as you draw and shoot, holding the pistol/revover close to the belt and rocking back.

I'm not driving to Springfield MO. But if anyone is interested I have a range, I can put on deministrations and I can work with you a bit, and you can see for yourself Mr Roberts is totally OFF BASE.

Where did this 1:1000 number come from?
 
Unfortunately, kraig, you are a lot farther from me than Springfield would be... Or I would say we should shoot some video.

And you could probably help a lot with my rifle skills.

The tyranny of finite time and funds...
 
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By the way, Darren - back on page one, your argument was the attacker would disarm the shooter and use the gun against him.

On this page, you are now arguing knife attacks.

What's with the switch? Is he stabbing and slashing us, or taking our gun?
 
Darren, I just have to ask...what personal experience do you have with an attacker?

Also that 1.5 seconds in 30 feet means they are already up to full speed when reaching the threshold. I've tested this myself and from a dead stop to 30' took 2.5 seconds.
 
Still thinking way too much. Also without any reliable data to sustantuate your "theory"! In the first place, most attacks are with a distance closer to 30 inches than 30 feet! Maybe you're confusing CCW for personal defense with some sort of LE, or combat scenario.
 
The OP (and others) would do well to realize that if one wishes to suddenly appear on this board as a new member, utterly unknown, and dispense "professional advice" as if from The Temple Mount, make some outlandish claims without any supporting data, and then expect to be taken seriously (with the majority of his grand total of 13 posts being in this one thread)

...then he may well be met with a certain amount of healthy skepticism. And rightly so. :)

Lesson learned?
 
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why carry?

Darren, If you feel this way, why even carry at all? I carry a P3AT and understand that it is basically a "belly gun ". I don't believe you can start at 30' and get to me before I can get it from my front pocket into your belly. I ain't as good as I once was, but I am as good 7X.380 as I ever was. LOL!
Merry Christmas Everybody
 
The OP (and others) would do well to realize that if one wishes to suddenly appear on this board as a new member, utterly unknown, and dispense "professional advice" as if from The Temple Mount, make some outlandish claims without any supporting data, and then expect to be taken seriously (with the majority of his grand total of 13 posts being in this one thread)

...then he may well be met with a certain amount of healthy skepticism. And rightly so.

Lesson learned?
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Taken from the OP:
3. Knock down power -
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Just the use of that erroneous cliche proves suspect of the actual knowledge of the poster.
 
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