Gestapo live and well in Maryland

For the Record, Administrator Mode is definitely off-- (I'm so glad Rich came up with that! :))


Firstly, Geneb aluded to it, and I forgot to mention it, but any CITY is WITHIN a County.. even 20 years ago when you were a trooper, so your whole basis for arguing with the guy is really thin, isn't it?

Your ranting post really made me laugh though....You claim that you couldn't take his "Getapo Ways..." Hahahaha.. the guy pulled you over because your car didn't have a plate! What is so "Gestapo" about that???
Then, after you started mouthing off, he asked you to sit in YOUR car! OOO, the gall!!

Save the "Boston Tea Party" rap for the kids at the conspiracy chat room... you are not in trouble because your freedom was threatened, you are in trouble because you acted like a smarty pants.

Now, somewhere in your first response to my post, you made the statement that your LE training included the idea that:

"The best way not to have an argument is to avoid one."

Well, I guess you forgot your training. Rather than testing an LEO (on his knowledge and temperment) in the middle of a traffic stop that could involve a felony (stolen car), you probably should've at least waited until after the conclusion of the warrant check and vehicle registration. Keep in mind that the Oklahoma bomber was caught because he was driving a car with no plate... or do you consider him an upstanding gun owner, since he stood up to authority??

TFL is full of responsible gun owners concerned about the future of our right to keep and bear arms. Why you think that somehow means we whould back you up for disobeying and antagonizing an LEO I don't understand.

If an ATF agent shows up at your house to check a serial number or something, are you going to get into a gun fight or are you going to show him the gun he wants to see? For ALL of our sakes, I hope you'd show him the gun. If your guns are legal, as I'm assuming your car was, and you just play along nobody gets hurt, arrested or maligned.
Inconvenienced? Hell, yeah! Maybe if you'd've had your license plate like you should have, you wouldn't have inconvenienced that cop by putting him in a position to have to pull you over!

Not only can I not bring myself to feel at all bad for you, it bothers me that you came here looking for sympathy! you were wrong-o-rama. I really hope you don't loose your right to own firearms over it. That is wrong. Show me a petition to and I'll sign it, put it to a vote and I'll vote against it, but I'm not going to tell you that you were (at all) in the right.

Just to keep things polite here, I'm emailing you :).

Everyone Else,

Let's use this unfortunate incident as a learning opportunity:

Everything is not about guns! A Traffic stop, is just a traffic stop..Especially an obviously righteous stop (ie- there was no plate!). You will be much better served in your life (as will our entire cause) if you don't become a "one issue person". Avoiding Pepsi products becuase they have donated to HCI is one thing, Picking up a glass of Pepsi that your future mother-in-law puts in front of you at Thanksgiving Dinner and hurling it through a plate glass window is quite another!
Keep things in perspective. Be true to your beliefs, but be smart. Choose your battles carefully.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 28, 1999).]
 
Gotta admit that reading about ex-cops and current cops copping attitudes towards one another reminds me what's wrong with Law Enforcement today... (as if the good 'ol boy system doesn't have it's problems).

Too much power instilled in one civil servant's often flawed judgement so that he is willing to make even a fellow officer's life a living hell over something that shouldn't even be a crime in the first place.

I hope current LEs reading this (# something) can envision themselves in Guttsmokes place 40 years from now when some snot puffed out with power and pride pulls *them* over according the letter of the law, and because they CAN.

Don't go to the Chief, Guttsmoke. Send your attorney to get a status report on how the investigation is going on the reported theft of your front license plate.

You're the victim, twice over. Find out what the cops are doing to track the theft of your stolen plates (you've got the state tax receipts, right?)...Or is license plate theft one of those redefined not-crimes because it's much easier to generate revenue from those who have had their plates stolen?
 
(administrator mode still off)


IRONY ALERT:

I am ROTLMAO!!!

Where did these words come from??

"I've decided to live outside the law [until] it is better defined""


If you guessed that they came from Guttsmoke, 4 days before his troubles, you would be a big winner!

www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32170


Have we determined that the plates were stolen yet? ;)


[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 28, 1999).]
 
According to the initial report on this thread we know that only the FRONT plate was missing.

When was it determined the front plate WASN'T stolen since the rear plate was apparently valid? Is he guilty till proven innocent for a missing taxed BUMPER STICKER?

Would you as an LE consider the missing plate a crime committed by the diver, and the driver an automatic smartass for bringing up shared LE experience?

Or would your opinion on the matter depend on *subjective* things such as how bored you were, if you had a headache, whether or not the car looked just like the one that punk in high school drove that stole your date for the prom - or on a profile run on TFL on his politics?

It's all about subjectiveness, and POWER.

So yes, it is finally all about guns.
 
(AMSO)

Maybe I missed something, but it seemed to me that nothing had been established about the car, the driver, the plates or anything else at the time that Guttsmoke refused to comply with the officers (basic, standard, reasonable, etc...) request.
The officer had not had a chance to check the registration or the license when Guttsmoke insisted on being arrested.

Now, AFTER the car and individual had been checked and if the individual hadn't made the situation even worse by continuing to rant, I would have been inclined to release him with a stern warning about his behavior and a citation for improper display of plates (or whatever the specific statute would be in MD). I would know that if the guy got his plates taken care of, the judge would in all liklihood have dismissed the charge.

All this is assuming that the car and driver came back clean, but that is a big assumption, especially if the person is being beligerent.

Maybe the font plate was stolen.
Maybe it rusted off.

Who knows, but lets try to keep in mind that we are only getting one side of the story here. Human nature is what it is, and yet I think we can agree that, based only on what he has admitted, Guttsmoke didn't make things easy for the LEO.

I still don't think Guttsmoke should've been charged with a serious crime for his actions (at least not what he has told us), but I am convinced that he went into the situation with a big chip on his shoulder and he had it knocked off rather forcefully.
 
Guttsmoke--remain calm, dignified, and collected (please note that I said remain, not get) and push this thing as far as possible to get ride of that piece of feces playing at being a cop. Go to the feces supervisor, and that person's supervisor, all the way to the top--please document all answers to inquiries. If that doesn't provide suitable recourse, please go to the D.A.'s office. If that doesn't do any good, please try the local press. Please, this guy has absolutely no business serving the public. Please note that I used the term public--not civilians.

Unfortunately I've run acrossed this same type of "LEO". I'm not going to go into the whole thing--just a few highlights. No, I didn't get arrested-- as a point in fact--I never even saw him for 11 months. Somehow I, according to the feces I had to deal with, disobeyed his order. (Obey and order--yeah, Gestapo in the topic seems to fit.) So when the flashing lights of a cruiser showed in my rear-view mirror a mere 100 yards later--I pull over as any lawful member of the public does. This cop tells me her boss (feces) via radio told her to cite me for "failure to obey". I ask her if she'd like to ask me any questions--she says "no, if you have anything to say, you may say it in court". I say "OK", she gives me the ticket.

This happened in Black Hawk, CO. For me, about an hour drive from my home town. In order for me to fight this ticket ($25.00 by the way) I would have to appear in court a couple of months later. I think I did nothing wrong, I'm going to court. As this was the 1st cite for me, little did I realize this first court date is nothing.

A 2nd court date was set up for a couple of months later. At this court date, I was told I must 1st talk to the D.A.--ok let's talk. I go into see him, he just sort of looks at me--doesn't say anything. I say that I was told I must 1st talk to him--he then asks me then if I want to plea. No, I don't want to plea--I want the bogus ticket dropped. I ask "Do you want to know what happened", he answers "No, I already know what happened--it's all here in the police report". I say "OK, lets go see the Judge". Little did I know that I couldn't go see the Judge for 2 reasons. 1) I was issued a citation not a summons. 2) If I wanted to go see the Judge my citation would have to voided, and then reissued as a summons. I had them reissue the ticket on the spot. Yes, I then get to go in and see the judge. Well, when we get into court, the judge asks me do I accept the plea the DA has said we've agreed to--at this point I look at the ceiling and count to 5. "No sir, we've agreed to nothing". He looks at the DA a little funny and asks him whats going on. DA answers that I rejected said plea and a court date is needed. At this point I ask somewhat naively "Aren't we at court?". The Judge answers nope we'll all need to come on back again.

Next court date--snowed out, the clerk was nice enough to call the day before and set up another court date. 11 months from the original citation date.

Court date--at last. Mine was the 3rd case to be heard. 1st two were represented by lawyers.

The people present their case--officer feces. I get to cross examine him, 1st time I've even seen his face. After my questions of officer feces, the Judge tells me he thinks my case has been fully presented to his satisfaction. I say "I've spent about a year at this--I'm not even close to done yet". I recall the citing officer, then I call myself. Judge again pretty much warns me I've won the case "shut up". No, I've never been able to give the facts from my perspective--everyone in court is going to hear them regardless whether I win or lose the case.

I win, found not guilty. At which point the Judge uses 10 minutes of court time, on the record, to 1st jump the DA for not knowing the facts of the case and then coming down really hard on officer feces.

After the Judge is done--making sure not to jump in before he is done--I ask if I could get a copy of the record of the trial to give to officer feces boss. He tells me that won't be necessary as he will have both the actual DA and officer feces boss in his office later that day.

Yeah, this was a real pain in the butt over an incorrect citation that would have cost me $25.00. The ticket would have meant nothing to me as that would have been the 1st--it was a matter of principle. The gas, and time away from my business were the expenses that I had to lose in order to make my point. Luckily I am and was able to afford to hold to my principles; however, for most, fighting this citation wouldn't have made economic sense. I believe that was what officer feces was banking on.

One last point, Rob have you ever been a member of the Black Hawk City Police? The reason I ask--you sound an awful lot like officer feces to me.
 
Rob I must confess I am confused on a few things in your post(s) but I am certain of one thing I hope you aren't a cop. If you are please tell me where you patrol and I will make sure I never pass through your area. The thing you confuse me most about is that you keep stating that I got in the officer's face i.e. mouthing off. Again I keep reading over my post and I don't know how you came to this conclusion. Asking a question in a mild tone is mouthing off. Handing over all my credentials without malice is mouthing off. If you think so then beleive me your the one with the problem. Or maybe your psychic you know something the rest of us don't in which case you should be in Las Vegas making millions instead of terrorizing the public. With your way of thinking that you should NEVER question so called authority. If a bunch of LEO's show up and say they have a search warrant you shouldn't ask to see it because your MOUTHING off. My signature of living outside the law is a statement on our society today. Government has so many laws that it is impossible to live within the law. Additionally, when you think you have the inaliable right to do something the law says no. Rob you may be laughing but I'm hoping you see the light for all our sake's. One last comment if the ATF comes to my door they will NOT get in without my Lawyer being there. Of. course I guess you don't beleive all the horror stories of how they have confiscated propety without due process or killed family pets or caused women the miscarriage. But hay if it did happen the bastard's probably deservered it because they might have asked a question and that was mouthing off. Rob what part of civil service don't you understand. To the rest of the thread I forgot one important part of my story I was wearing my NRA-ILA hat that day. Maybe I was unconscienously mouthing off or showing a chip on my shoulder.

------------------
"Solidarity is the Key"
 
I'm sorry to keep posting but so many questions are being asked I forget to answer them before I punch the post botton. Oh wait a minute you guys are asking me questions are you being a "Smartpants". A little humor. I never question the front plate bit we both agreed it was missing I never questioned the law regarding displaying plates. I only asked about jurisdiction merely for my own edification.If I was coming from Virginia and had past into Maryland then noticed a Virginia cop trying to pull me over I would have pulled over immediately, as I did, but I still would have asked about jurisdiction. Never did I get a citation nor a warning for the initial stop. In Maryland Baltimore city is an incorporated city and is NOT part of the county. Matter of fact that has been a area of political stink for years. The initial stop has seemed to gone by the way side no report theft or otherwise ( to my knowledge) PS I found the tag. Finally the thing that scares me the most wasn't my arrest but there refusal to allow me to call my lawyer and to continue to try and brow beat me into answering their questions. Over 2 hours before I was allowed to call my lawyer. That's the scary part. My rights as a citizen were being violated with their refusal to allow me contact with the legal world. That's the Gestapo part. Refusal to seek competent legal advice, all the time threaten me to answer their questions or else. That's what is really bothersome.

------------------
"Solidarity is the Key"
 
Hey Lucas,
Thanks for doing that.

When an LEO and a civilian ;) meet for official reasons, it is the LEO who HAS to be the one that is courteous and respectful. It should go both ways but never forget what you're being paid to do.

Has anyone seen that "amazing video" where that state trooper pulls this guy over in an SUV, and the SUV guy goes completely mental? Yelling, screaming, waving his arms, insulting the troopers mother etc., then tears up the ticket and throws it out the window. The trooper remains calm, collected and courteous at all times and then gently tells the guy to get out of his car and pick up the ticket or he'll write him another one. This further enrages the guy, but he does it. The guy finally calms down and leaves. I've never seen anyone behave in such a professional manor, as did that peace officer.




------------------
To be or not to be-that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them.
 
Lucas,

I've read many of Rob's post and I find that he in no way represents the officer in your story. He obviously is focusing on the fact that GS disobey an order to get back in his car and then demanded to be arrested. GS has stated that his major problem besides the officer's attitude was the fact that he was denied access to legal counsel.

It appears to be a bad situation turned worse by an over aggresive officer and a retired LEO that expected better treatment.
 
I've found that being "nice" to a cop will get you a whole lot further with him than being a dick. Treat him like you would like to be treated, and if he ends up being a dick, then decide intelligently whether to retaliate.

I go out of my way to say "hello", "how's it going", "what's that? a Glock 17?" to any cop I come within talking distance of. When I'm on my motorcycle I make a point to wave to cops or give them the "thumbs up".

I judge cops like I judge people...by their actions, not the uniform they wear or the color of their skin. Let them judge you by your actions. Be an example of class, dignity, and intelligence, don't stoop for anyone. Sometimes just remaining silent is all it takes to make that statement, other times you may just need to tactfully point out that a person is being rude or unprofessional. Be their talking mirror.

Do onto others, as you would have them do onto you. Hmmm, what a great verse.
 
The story that I am reminded of is the one which involved an Off duty LEO ( I think he was a supervisor) who was pulled over by a patrolman. The whole thing was taped by a camera in the car and recorded by a tape recorder onthe patrolman. I've seen/heard the footage. It is a joke. The Off duty guy gets out of his car, tries to tell the patrolman how to do his job, ends up shoving him and getting pepper-sprayed and wrestled into custody. The off-duty cop had a big chip onhis shoulder, he resented being pulled over, and he showed his ass. He also got everything he deserved, as I recall.

You guys who are saying that the officer should have remained calm might know more than I do about this situation, but it doesn't look to me like he lost his cool at all. Did he pistol whip Guttsmoke? Did he pepper spray him? Did he tear off the front plate and hide it? The guy was investigating a suspicious vehicle, and the driver insisted on being arrested... so be it.

Now, Guttsmoke, you remember that you were wearing your NRA Hat ?? Sheesh, if you were going to contend that your treatment was a result of you being pre-gun, I would've thought you'd do that in the first place. I'm certainly not going to change my tune because of that insignificant fact.

As Crash pointed out, my issue is with your behavior versus the behavior of the Cop. The Cop was aparently polite and respectful until you questioned his ability to do his job. He was still treating you fairly when you insisted on bing arrested. Fine, what is he supposed to do? Back Down? What precedent that would set? At that point, for all he knew, you had stolen the car and had a SKS in the back seat.

Let's put aside Guttsmoke's one man crusade for freedom and the American Way, and look at this from the cops point of view. How could he know that Guttsmoke wasn't dangerous to him? Gutt was beligerent. Gutt refused to obey his reasonable request. Gutt insisted on being arrested. Baltimore is not exactly the cleanest most crime free town.

Remember, I personally am not saying that the final action on the officer's part (the arrest) was what I would do. I can tell you that most LEOs wouldn't have donw anything at all in that situation (not even a ticket for the plate) if the individual is polite and respectful.

Like I said earlier, people should choose there battles carefully. Was this incident worth what it is going to cost Guttsmoke? It sure wouldn't have been to me!! In fact, if I was under the impression that an officer was out of his jurisdiction, I'd shut-up, take the ticket and fight it in court. But that is me, I am not running around with a chip on my shoulder looking for a confrontation.

Please keep us posted.
 
(donning the flame proof suit)

Rob,

The discussion about over-aggresive/"us vs. them" mentality LEO's evidently is one of your hot buttons (very hot). Toughen up unless we are talking about your conduct as an officer specifically. Otherwise there is no need to defend the LEO profession, just as there is no need for me to defend what I do as long as I am ethical and moral about it.

Your attitude toward Guttsmoke is condecending and devisive, not up to par with what TFL is about, and certainly not up to par with what, I believe, your standards of conduct are.

Guttsmoke has every right to question this cop, if he did not have that right, then we live in a police state, and a dictatorship.

If we are living in a police state and value personal freedom, we need to fight it, and not at the ballot box. Take it to the streets through civil disobedience, and if it came to it, all-out rebelion.

Guttsmoke never insisted that he be arrested. He left that up to the officer by calling his bluff and standing on the principles that he believes in.

Ivan hit it on the head when he stated that police, many times, are revenue agents for the state/county/city they work for.

What's a license plate anyway, but a reciept for taxes paid. And why pull someone over if you're not enforcing the collection of monies that we "owe" our government?

That Guttsmoke was denied legal access and questioned repeatedly without legal council says nothing good about those LEO's who were involved.

------------------
John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..."
 
(AMSO)

John,

For the record, I am not really defending the cop, I am criticizing Guttsmoke. He opened h is actions up for comment, if he wants me to stop, I'll stop.

My "Hot Button" is the tendancy for Pro-Gunners to be "Anti-Authority". PErsonaly, I don't see the two as going hand in hand. Guttsmoke does (going by most of his posts at TFL) and I think that attitude has bit him.

Considering time on the scene and transport/processing time, 2 hours before he could talk to his lawyer is not a big deal. Its not like they were question him on a murder or something and telling him he couldn't talk to counsel.

What is this business about "calling a bluff" ??!! The officer obviously never bluffed!

Everyone pretty well knows how I feel about this topic. Other members have their own pet topics, but this one is mine. When the ATF stakes out your house with the intent to violate your 2nd Amendment Rights, call me. When they kick your wife or kill your cat, I'll be right there with ya. Until then, I am tired of hearing about "gestapo" cops representing the new world order by enforcing traffic laws. ;)

Seriously, if you guys think you should take up your "Improper Taxation" issues with the cop on the street (who pays the same taxes!), you'll get what you deserve.

THINK!

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 28, 1999).]
 
if you look at what the ACLU says to do when stoped by LEO you'll see they say to remain
calm and don't offer info,do as the officer says, don't argue, and if anything illegal is
found then remain silent, probable cause has
to exsist for a search of your car, and even
if you think there is no cause and LEO searches anyway, just be quite and stay calm.
too many officers killed at traffic stops,
and to start some crap with any cop who doesn,t know you is dangerous for you and the cop. they will win there and then no
matter what you say or how defiant you get,
its latter on when your lawyer gets involved
that you'll win. that is if the LEO is'nt some liar and backed by a PD that will lie
right along with him.in a small town I'd be
damned sure to be extra polite and not say squat, and if the cop said to get in car I
would, I never get out and allways keep hands
on steering wheel, I don't reach for my wallet till he asks for ID, and in this situation I would have told him where my gun
was right off. there is alot of dumb butt
young cops on the streets these days, if you've ever been pulled over in Dade county Florida you'd meet some of the dumbest, meanest, and cruelest cops I've ever had the
misfortune of getting a speeding ticket from.
I argued that he was sitting right where speed sign goes from 55 to 35, he called in
2 squads, they threw me on ground and cuffed
me. I shut up after that, they released me after doing background check and trashing my car, no guns this time, told me next time
officer pulls me over to shut the **** up,
gave me the ticket and let me go, it took a hour of lieing on ground before released,
 
If the people fear the police, then we are already living in a police state.

If I'm being wronged, I don't care if it's Janet Reno herself she is going to hear my opinion right then and there. I don't care what it costs me, I'll sleep better at night knowing I stood up for myself, if I live.

Rob, What would you do: Your an LEO, I'm Joe motorist with an expired inspection sticker. You pull me over, write me a ticket, I say "thank you officer". Then I tell you off, using every cuss word there is. I don't make any threats, but I call you a nazi storm trooper. (I would never do this, I personaly have much respect LEO's) Really, how would you react. You probably will face this situation in the future.
 
Rob this one's for you would you please post word for word, to this group, the 2 private e-mails you sent me. Group would you then read his private e-mails and give me your opinion. I have already formed mine but will not expond on it until others voice theirs. I don't want this to become a flame war and if you all think it has please advise and I will stop.
Rob PLEASE answer this isn't the phrase "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law" part of the maranda warning?
 
Guttsmoke, like I said above, TFL is a place for polite conversation and expression of opinions. What I sent you in private was meant to stay that way. Some of it expresses my opinion in a manner that is inconcistent with TFL policies for members, to say nothing of it not being appropriate here, given my administrator status.
I've been waiting for a reply via Email.
If I had been arrested, and if this were a court of law, I guess that you're Miranda quote would be somewhat pertintent, but such is not the case.

Back to Walking Man's "What would I do?" question:

Two part response:

First: I've been in those situations before, both as LE and Private Security, my normal response would be to use lots of "sirs" "Thank yous" and "Is that your opinion?" or "Sir, don't kid around, tell me what you really think, please." With a big condescending smart ass grin on my face the whole time. Concluding with a "Have a Nice Day, Sir."

That would be the case especially in the scenario you described, because you stated that our official business was concluded. If the ticket had been written and you had complied with my requests, I could just get in my car and go.
If the beligerence happens during the stop, the response would be the same, so long as the subject complied with my requests. If he did not, he might find himself in the back of th car, while I ran the plates and ran him. Now, here comes the sticky part:
In todays litigous world, "the book" suggests that once you are forced to handcuff someone, you had been better process them, lest doing them a favor comes to bite you on the butt inthe future. I try very hard not to live my life in fear of being sued, so I would most likley let someone go in every case, if the abuse was just verbal.

Part Two:

This afternoon god delivered unto me a perfect example. I was out on my Motorcylce, meeting my wife at a store. Betweem the fire lane and the parking lot in front of the strip mall, there are a series of "concrete Islands" about 4 feet wide by 15-20 feet across, they are about curb hieght, 3-5 inches tall. At this strip mall, it is my habit to pull my bike up onto these Islands, rather than taking up a whole parking space, I am not the only one who does this, BTW. It is a common practice, but I took no note of the fact that no other motorcycles were on the Islands this morning.
While I was taking off my helmet I noticed a local cop driving down the fire lane towards the front of my bike. I immediately did an elbow check to make sure that my T-shirt had not rode up over my gun and waited expectantly as I saw him start to roll his passenger side (my side) window down. I look in, he said:

"Hey, do you think you could find a parking space?" (Note that the parking lot was mostly empty...) "..like Now..."

Of course, this thread flashed through my head and I thought about what someone might say "Who did you piss off to be doing parking lot duty?".. but I chose the more prudent "Sure Thing."

I got back on the bike, set the helmet on the tank, started it up, drove off the Island and pulled into a spot about 20 yards away. Now, I probably should've put my helmet on, but I didn't want to look like an ass-kisser ;).

I went into the store and concluded my business in a few minutes and I cam back out. Now the cop was sitting in the fire lane near the exit. I got on my bike and decided to do one more thoghtful thing. I didn;t need to, but I purposefully drove by his car, slowly, giving him the rear view of my bike. I wanted him to see (and I'm sure he did) My FOP shield on my plate. Maybe he'll think twice before giving an on-duty officer a hard time or expecting special treatment. too many LEOs would've flashed a badge and expected to be allowed to leave their bike there. While I think that is harmless, and if an off-duty LEO tinned me in that circumstance, I would probly let it go, with "Okay, but nextime use a space, right?", I still don't think it helps LE/non-Le relations to take special treatment for granted.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 28, 1999).]
 
Well Rob, that was the response I was hoping to hear from you.
In your duties as an LE, have you ever given someone a waffle. My father gave me one once, said he could't tell me, he had to show me.

part two: with all due respect; you did break the law, twice, in front of the man. Lucky you didn't meet Guttsmokes friend!

I broke the law on purpose in front of an LEO once.I was a bit younger and a lot braver. I was in an empty mall parking lot, after hours, practicing riding wheelies on my KZ1000. I stop for a smoke and realize tris cop has been watching me the whole time from the back of the parking lot. He sees me see him and he waves, I wave back. I finish my smoke, put my helmet back on and continue my "practice". About 10 minuets later I look over to see if I can tell how impressed he is and he waves me over. I think "he must want to congradulate me on my motorcycle skills" Noooo....... he hands me a ticket for reckless driving! then says "could you be any stupider doing that in front of a cop? I was going to let you go, I gave you every oportunity to leave. But I guess your not that bright."
 
"Waffle" is not a term that I am familiar with. FWIW, I have noticed that LE terminology (like most "codes") vary from region to region and even dept to dept. What is a common term with one group of LE may not mean anything to a group from the next county. Those guys in VA are still trying to figure out what I meant by "Misdemeanor Murder" ;).

I'm not sure if you were kidding or not (at this point in a thread like this, subtle sarcasm is often missed ;)), but I don't think the guy that pulled over Guttsmoke was any different than the guy who asked me to move my bike. One guy got cooperation, the other got an attitude.

A traffic stop isn't a steak, it is a stew.. the final taste is determined by the several things that go into it.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 28, 1999).]
 
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