German Short Haired Pointers

A cap gun is a good introduction. I will get them retrieving then I will hand the dog off to some one else to handle. I will throw a few bumpers from a few feet away from the dog. After the dog warms up to this I will start shooting the cap gun and throwing the bumper. Most pups are more concerned about the bumper than the cap gun noise. Its very similar to what bucks does but a little different. I know people who also use a cap gun to signal feeding time. They will shoot a cap then present the pups food. Both easily transition into .22 gun fire and eventually shot gun. Most high end hunting dogs could be shot around without any intro but its just not worth the risk as it has already been said, its pretty tough to reverse gun shy. Heck the first time my last lab was shot around was I was shooting a bow and arrow and he went nuts, he was convinced there was something to go get.

I only use treats for about the first two weeks I have the dog. I have never used a 1/2 a bag let a lone a full bag of treats. I don't always give the treat either. Once the pup starts responding I quickly wean then off the treats so that my praise is all they get. I find it gets things going quickly in a positive way for the pups and really shortens the learning curve.
 
$800 for a puppy... you should have a health guarantee in writing and that pedigree should be pretty packed with Master Hunter titles as well as a bunch of field champions. If not he's charging way too much for his dogs.

As for gunfire the first few months of his life with you should be pretty easy going. Don't worry about gunfire for a bit yet. Get him to LOVE retrieving by throwing soft things, squeaky things, colorful things etc. in front of him and get him to love it. Pointing is instinctive for these dogs and that can be honed later but retrieving isn't instinctive so you need to instill a love of it early on. Don't worry too much about details like bringing the toy to hand or sitting while you throw etc. Just get him to love retrieving - make it furn and the second he seems to start getting bored with it stop. You can always do it again later or tomorrow to keep it fresh for him.

When he's about 7 months or so old you can start exposing him to gunfire. Prior to that don't be shy about loud noises. If he grows up accustomed to being in an environment where loud noises occur he won't worry too much about gunfire. When you start exposing him to gunfire go get a .22 blank gun and a bunch of blanks. The blanks will be available in various power (and sound) levels. Start with the lowest level and have someone shoot it from a distance - this person should be the same person that throws the dummy/bumper etc. for the dog to retrieve. Shoot then throw and the dog is sent to retrieve. Keep that up and slowly move the shooter closer and closer to the dog. Take your time, don't do it all in one day. After a while you can go to having someone throw the mark and you shoot the blank gun in your other hand behind your back. Then move toward the gun beside you then when he's comfortable with that you can go get blanks for your shotgun. They DO make 12ga. blanks and you should use those next. Again, shoot, have someone throw the mark and send the dog to go get it. Eventually your dog will equate a gun shot to being able to go retrieve (which he should love to do by now) and he'll look forward to the shot rather than cower away from it.

All this takes time though - sometimes as long as 2 months. Gauge your dog's temperament and how well they handle the gunfire then go according to your dog's comfort level. Its easier to take your time exposing your new dog to gunfire than to break a dog of being gun shy after he's been scared out of his wits with gunfire.

Oh and fireworks of any kind are a huge no-no while you're training for gunfire... also a big no-no is taking your dog to the shooting range to expose him to gunfire. There should be no gratuitous gunfire in his early life. For him every shot must mean he's got something to retrieve or else you'll set your training back badly.
 
Great ideas! I'm not in a hurry to take him shooting, just thinking ahead. I'm glad I asked too, very good points were made and I'm saving time by asking :)

I've always just taken them shooting and started with 22s. Most were not gunshy and one was. My Mastiff Thor flinched at the first shot and now he is very interested in sniffing the barrel and when he sees rounds kicking up dirt or grass he wants to go investigate.

Good advice all! Thanks,
He's coming along fine with the leash. He didn't like it but then became bored and started walking around and sniffing things so it should be fine within a couple weeks max.

He orally gave me aguarentee but I don't know if its in writing. Perhaps I will read it through tonight and see what all is stated.
 
When he's about 7 months or so old you can start exposing him to gunfire.
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I've shot birds over a staunch point when my dogs were as young as 4 months. The GWP I have now is not quite a year old. She hunted her first live Chukar and Pheasants at 5 months. The chukars she could retrieve, the pheasants she had problems with. She was introduced to gun fire @ 3 1/2 months. Again, she was a hundred yards away in her crate in the back of the jeep while my sons and I shot magnum revolvers getting ready for deer season. My wife was with her, talking to her, making sure she wasn't stressed or fearful. When it was apparent she wasn't, my wife put her on her leash and walked towards us slowly as we continued to shoot. When they were about 40 yards away we switched to .22s. When they got close we quit shooting and threw a stick(she a stick dog LOL). After she had fetched the stick a few times we took the next step. Next time my son the threw the stick, I shot the .22, and she never flinched as she went after it. We did that about a dozen times. Next time she heard a gun it was a month and a half later, behind her as the first Chukar broke. From that day on it was hard to leave the house with a gun in my hand if she wasn't coming with. My wife said Turkey huntin' season this spring was the worst. The dog would see me leave @4:30 in the morning in my hunting clothes with my gun and she would drive the wife nuts till she went to work @ 8.:D

From my limited experience, I've found, if you pay attention, the dog will tell you when its time. A birdy pup can never start to hunt too early. If it loves to hunt, you need to hunt it. Just as pushing a dog before it understands what is wanted of it, makes for a upset owner and a confused dog. Altho one must be patient and be sure the dog is ready for the next step, waiting till a such and such pre-determined time can do more harm than good if the dog is already there. Like kids, every dog will mature differently. Not all kids learn to walk @ 9 months of age, but most of them lean to walk at some point. If a kid tries to walk@ seven months you don't force him to continue to crawl. Don't judge this dog by what your last dog or your brothers dog did.


BTW, Many gun shy dogs were made gun shy by loud noises other than those made by a gun.
 
From my limited experience, I've found, if you pay attention, the dog will tell you when its time.
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This is true. As a trainer I've exposed my some of my personal dogs and some clients' dogs to gunfire as early as 4 months too. I've also seen dogs as young as 6 months old hunting pheasant too. The fact is dogs AREN'T human children. Instead they are dogs. Dogs don't have the capacity to think and reason even as much as a human toddler can. That being the case it is more the norm that a dog that is exposed to gunfire very early can become gun shy - especially when the exposure is done improperly or rushed.

Its also true dogs have become gun shy from sounds other than gunfire but more often than not its due to either gunfire or fireworks/firecrackers. As I said before if you give the dog a reason to look forward to gunfire and give them the chance to make the connection that a shot means they get to go retrieve they will learn to love gunfire.

Not all dogs behave the same way and some dogs progress more quickly than others while some progress more slowly. My advice is based on an average of the two extremes (found in various studies and through experience) and covers the majority of dogs you'll encounter in the sporting theater. Of course you could push a dog early and still get it to retrieve under gunfire but are you sure you're not complicating things later on by rushing? As a trainer what I do is steady and methodical. Its a very scientific and consistent method of training and as such my results are consistent. Sure there are dogs that I can move on early and dogs that I have to hold back on a bit more but overall the majority of dogs fall under the 7 months rule if you're training by yourself at home or in the field. With dogs its easier to take it slowly than to rush and have to try and correct behaviors that were learned unexpectedly while you were rushing your dog.

Of course as I also tell my clients; its your dog and your money. I can give you all the advice in the world but if you choose to ignore it that's your right. Just make sure that you remember you went about it your own way if something doesn't turn out right.

He orally gave me aguarentee but I don't know if its in writing. Perhaps I will read it through tonight and see what all is stated.
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I don't mean to tell you what to do or tell you that you got a bad deal (truth is without seeing the dog myself I wouldn't be able to really tell) but were it me I'd have gotten a health guarantee in writing. At the price he's selling them at I have never purchased a puppy without a health guarantee. I would also want a copy of the pedigree - not just be shown them. That's something you want on hand just in case something doesn't seem right and you can pursue verification of that resume through the AKC - and compare what they have on file with what you have in hand. If they don't match you've been had...

Personally if you're talking $600+ dollars in a sporting dog puppy you're talking big money and higher end dogs. I know a breeder whose puppies go for a $750 per puppy flat. His dogs all come with full AKC registration, a certified 3 generation pedigree and a 24 month health guarantee - all in writing. His dogs are senior and master hunters and they also do quite well in the trials arena - winning AFC (Amateur Field Champion) and FC (Field Champion) titles regularly.

As the money goes up so should the quality of the pedigree. As for a health guarantee I would actually walk away from a puppy if I didn't get a health guarantee for at least 18 months with a price of more than $500 no matter how good a pedigree the dog might have.
 
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Hansam, Hog dogs are traded in a very small circle of dedicated hog doggin' dogmen... We see what the productivity is of the individual dog in hunting reports and, often, the scars of battle...

We wait until a dog of a particular style gets bred for a certain style of pups and beg to be on the list... Some sell for 5k and up but generally a couple hundred bucks is average with many being given away or sold for a few bucks... Some will not part with a pup for less than 500 or such...

For "started" or "finished" adults, we will prefer to see the dog hunt before buying as the finished dogs will never be cheap as the owner has been thru many "culls" and tons of feed and vet bills before he settled on a "keeper" sure enough "hogdog"...

Training is far easier, I suspect, than training bird dogs... if the dog has the natural disposition to be a game chaser and the heart to stick with it than starting them on pigs will show if we need to invest more time in the young dog or cut our losses...

As for the "catch dog" there is no such thing as trained... they either have the heart to stay caught until the end no matter what or they don't... The man cannot make the dog stay caught...

Ya'll that train other sporting dogs impress me for YOUR training ability...

Brent
 
Brent,

I've always been intrigued by hog dogs and wondered if with a little more training they'd be more successful at their hunting. In bird dogs we have to hone the dog's scenting - basically teaching the dogs to actually trust their nose to pinpoint a bird from a distance and to ignore other scents when they've been ordered to hunt.

Granted bird hunting is obviously less stressful to the dog than hog hunting (and of course less dangerous) but I always thought that with adding some of that bird hunting training into a hog dog's life you might end up with an excellent dog for hog hunting. This of course goes with the fact that I know next to nothing about hog dogging since we don't exactly get a chance to do that up here in WI.

When it comes to hog dogs though you mentioned big money when you're buying a finished dog - how much are we talking? In my area of expertise a finished dog can fetch as much as $20,000 (if its already a MH and a FC). I've even heard of dogs being sold for $30k+.... which to me is absolutely outrageous but well the prices some people are willing to pay right?

Personally when it comes to hogs I've always fancied myself a "sit in a tree stand and shoot the dang things when they run across my shooting lane" kind of hog hunter. Frankly from what I've heard of them and what I've seen of domesticated pigs (I witnessed a domesticated pig bite the muzzle off a pit bull that stuck his head into a pig pen) I'm not prepared to get very close to a live feral hog - even with dogs holding it. Those of you who do that on a regular basis to hog tie or stick them when caught by a dog - your cahones are much larger than mine!
 
Hansam, think nothing of it! This is part of the reason for the thread, so you guys can fill in the holes for me. I should have have received a copy of the pedigree and not just been allowed to look at it. I'm on that, thanks. Considering the base price of the dog, to get 3 generations of pedigree sounds very reasonable. I don't have that much in the dog, he needed some plumbing work done so after the trade I probably have on the low side of 500 in him. But still...!

The health guarantee is in there too, albeit for one year. That's ok. I think perhaps I will get pics of the parents too. I intended to but walked out without my camera.

His daddy looked like a freak almost, so big and bursting at the seams with muscle instead of the normal trimmer GSP look. He looks like a champion. My puppy has such big paws that he's showing the potential to be pretty big himself.

This poor little guy is so scared of the the basement steps. He runs up and down the 5 back steps, and wont even try the 13 basement steps. He whines to come down where its cool but wants a ride. Who's training who here, lol.

Little progress on the leash. He will not walk with me. He wont retrieve either! He'll chase it fine but then keeps it. He hasn't brought it back once. It could be that he's not quite ready, he's still very puppyfied. It's been very hot too so maybe that is slowing him down a little. I'll continue to work with him but he's not getting any treats until he brings it back! I think hes mad at me right now because he seen the treats but didn't get any. :D
 
I'll continue to work with him but he's not getting any treats until he brings it back! I think hes mad at me right now because he seen the treats but didn't get any.
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That's one of the drawbacks to treats. The dog thinks if it does something it'll get a treat but when the treats stop they get confused. One of the reasons why I don't use treats when training.

Anyway with stairs - it'll take a bit. My puppy who is now 16 wks old still won't take stairs that are any taller than 10 steps. He gets 10 steps up and comes rushing back down too. He was originally reluctant to even take the first step on a staircase when I first got him at 7 wks.

As for leash training you just have to keep working at it although at this young age I'd work on basic obedience first as in "sit/stay and come/here." Once you get that in place (to the point he'll obey the command 99% of the time) then you can work on leash training. Like I said in my earlier post I then put a leash on the puppy and issue the "here" command then as he starts coming to me I start walking away. He'll follow while on the leash, keep it loose - don't let the leash get tight and don't pull him. He'll get the idea after a while and just walk on the leash.

Retrieving is another matter. I deal with flushing breeds and most flushing breeds are natural retrievers. As such my puppy was retrieving pigeon wings for me at 8 wks. He didn't always know to come back to me and he didn't always bring it to hand but he gave chase, picked it up and ran with it. Now he's 16 wks and he retrieves to hand 95% of the time. I've come across some dogs that don't retrieve and that's when force fetching comes into play. Force fetching though is a tough method of training - both for the dog and for the trainer. This is when you basically force the dog to learn to fetch on command and return to hand. All retrievers that go through hunt tests and trials will be trained with force fetch at some point before they're ready for tests and trials - although to different degrees depending on the dog. Force fetching also teaches the dog never to let go of the mark till the handler gives the "give" command and takes it.

At this point I'd suggesting working in tiny sessions - a few minutes each max and do it 3 times a day - one session each. Throw something the dog finds interesting - things with feathers are great as they get the puppy's attention. Brightly colored balls work too. Roll them in front of the puppy (really close to you as in arm's reach) and when the puppy goes after it praise him for it. Whether he brings it back or not isn't too terribly important as long as he enjoys the chase. Bringing it back will come later after you've firmly instilled the "come/here" command in the puppy's head.

Whatever you do don't force the puppy at this point, he's too young. I wouldn't push a puppy till he's at least 6 months old. Again there are those who have done so much earlier and gotten positive results but those are the exception and not the norm. For now just work on getting him to enjoy giving chase to balls, dummies and toys. Aside from that work on teaching him a solid "sit" and a solid "here/come". Those two commands will be more important than anything else in your dog's life when it comes time to hunt. If you can't get the dog to sit (even if he's hundreds of yards from you) you won't have time to assess the situation. If you can't get your dog to return to you every time (even if he's hundreds of yards from you) you risk losing your dog and ruining your hunt. Don't let the puppy get bored or feel threatened while you're training him. That will be very counterproductive in your training. Overall it takes a lot of time and patience...

If you have any questions feel free to pm me. Good luck and have fun with it.
 
The bird dogs are finding their way into the hog dog peds as we speak... many are adding GSP to their breeding programs... Many are bred to straight pits for a real "gritty" runnin' catch dog... or solo finder catcher style... So much easier to deal with just one dog when alone than a pack... and a pig on the ground...

As for levels of training... I am far from the consummate "dogman"... I am cheap with my limited funds...

I have no "vet on retainer" as many do... And I won't even buy a shock collar training system to "trash break" off deer etc...

One thing that makes it tuffer to train these mutts is we want them "out yonder" workin' so we do not know for sure if they are on a hog track or deer track for the most part... To start young dogs we want them to see a pig "clandestine wooded hog pens" are often the method for this initial start up... Then the first several times in openb woods, you better be putting them on some pretty fresh sign ti insure they take a pig track and not learn to be deer runners...

What I am sayin' is we don't see the dog for long until he bays a pig or comes back... The Garmin GPS trackers are the bees knees for us hoggers if they will just up the durability a bit more...

As for BIG DOLLAR dogs... 5k is up there but I seen some 10k numbers tossed around some too... This is insane to me 'cuz their next hunt is possibly their last in the hog doggin' world... Only a few true-blue HOG DOGS die of old age...

Brent
 
He's coming along fine. Brought the ball back a couple times. He's doing stairs now, I carried him to the mid point and set him. It only took a couple times before he realized it was ok and runs up and down now.

The leash we are working on still. Where he comes from is one house and a lot of land, and here its a lot of houses and little land. He is skittish outside his own yard. Overall he's coming along fine. Here's a pic of him as promised.

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He's a fine looking dog.

Your puppy needs to be exposed to more positive experiences outside of your property. Before you can do that though you need to work on obedience. When I train dogs for people the first thing I work on is obedience. I work on ONLY obedience till its at a level which I find acceptable.

First the puppy MUST come to you whenever called to you. Same goes for sit and heel. Basically there must be NO wavering at all when the command is issued. When the "No!" command is issued the puppy must know he's done something wrong and stop immediately. Absolute obedience is required. This will be necessary when out in the field.

Once that is established you can start with the leash training. Put him in sit, put the leash on him, walk to the end of the leash and call him to you. Once he's by you give him the heel command and praise him. Then eventually you can put him in sit, walk away with the leash in hand, call him to you and start walking after you issue the heel command. He'll follow trying to heel and praise him for it. After a while he'll get the idea and continue to do so upon the leash being put on him OR the heel command.

Good luck. I applaud your efforts however it seems to me like you might benefit with the help of a professional. I suggest looking up some good hunt trainers in your area.
 
He comes pretty good but he don't stay. I haven't been working with him very much. A few times a day for 15 minutes or so. He's still skittish even though he's settling down a lot and I don't want to pressure him yet. Plus, it's been very hot and he wears down fast. At least he's housebroken now. He's got a great personality :D
 
15 minutes is a long time for a young pup, shorten the time to about 5-10 depending on what your working on and how long he stays interested. Again a few times of offering treats randomly goes a long way at jump starting basic commands like here, and site for a young pup.
 
Thats good advice, I wont push him too hard. I wish I could afford to have him trained but thats almost as much as the dog was. In a few months I'll take him to Obediance school because that's not much, and it did wonders for my Mastiff. I can walk Thor without a leash and he heel great. I can even tell him to turn left or right and he will. He's a big baby and listens to everything I say. :)

I haven't let them meet yet because I think Riggs would be terrified of the dinosaur. One more week and then take them to the park to meet before letting the big dog come home. Wish me luck on that.
 
I honestly do not think it is going to matter much. If you are nervous about them meeting then they will feel that and also be nervous. Your big dog will either tolerate him or he won't. I bet the pup wants to play with him and he will either play back or teach the pup to leave him alone. Its how he teaches the pup that you have to be worried about.


The other thing to worry about is how they play together. You will have to watch them and make sure that the larger dog does not play to hard with him. If he swats hard enough with them big paws he can cause some hip and elbow problems for your pup, so just make sure that they don't get to rough while the pup is small.
 
Perfection kennels have a great DVD training set up, not to costly either. Some say they are the best trainers around.
 
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