Full Auto - of any real use?

I suppose the surge in the Lage stuff is due to the MACs (later generations anyway) being about the cheapest way to get into full auto these days.

I notice they are trying to turn them into anything but a "MAC". Cool stuff still. :)
 
Those Lage MACs are in a whole different league than the original. Very shootable. However, if you get an original MAC and try to shoot it Chuck Norris style, the place you are aiming is probably the safest place to be.
 
You're absolutely right there!

My kids always used to laugh at the movies when they saw that crap, or anything like it. :)
 
Cute but inaccurate.
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Not sure what you're context is here, but it's not quite right in both respects.

Fired ala Chuck, with no stock and one handed, its a pretty accurate statement, especially if you have no experience with one.

If you're referring to the guns being inaccurate, that is not an accurate statement, and especially if you do have experience with them.
 
Reality check?
Using a full auto gun to protect your home or business, what percentage of hits versus fired can you realistically expect? With a semi auto you can aim and fire or, if you are good, you can sweep fire like I do with metal plates. You move from the first to the last target without stopping the movement. You hit each target and move to the next in one smooth motion.
In reality after one or two thugs are hit they are more likely to move off. Either way you are not sending misses down range that might hit by-standers.
Running a full auto takes a lot of control if it is to be effective. Going all Rambo will run you out of bullets long before you get all the bad guys, even if they all line up nice for you. You need a very large number of rounds to use at full auto compared to the number of rounds necessary with a semi-auto.

Thugs and looters run when they are fired upon. You are unlikely to be up against a military or paramilitary force that will simply destroy you before you run out of ammo. A well placed concussion grenade from a launcher will make your full auto useless. So, what is a practical use of a full auto? To enjoy shooting it at a specified event at a safe location. They are a real rush! but practical offensive or defensive roles for civilian use are just a fantasy. (IMHO)
 
A full-auto carbine like the AR15 is quite useful. Yes, it is primarily an offensive weapon! No, it is not meant for defending oneself against muggers, but as one person has pointed out it can be useful in defending your home or business against a violent mob or gang.
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Yeah, but a transferable AR15/M16 costs up to $30,000.

That will buy a lot of fortification, security cameras, and armed guard service.
 
Absent any NFA restrictions, I have often thought that a two round burst would be perfect in a defensive firearm. Your sight picture might be very short and limited, and having two rounds on one sight picture could be very beneficial. Would also increase the effectiveness of a lot of low recoil carbine rounds like 5.56 or 9mm.

While I do think it's our right to own full auto weapons and might be useful for defending your state, country, or large patches of property, I don't think it would be super beneficial for the majority of what most civilians encounter as self defense.

A .22 with a large magazine, red dot sight, and suppressor would have a whole lot of lead output without just about any recoil or noise... but I would hope the user of such had a lot of land surrounding as I don't trust buildings to stop even a .22.
 
jmorris said:
Cute but inaccurate.
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If you can hip-shoot a MAC-10 in each hand from a Desantis rig and do better than what I suggested, you're a better man than I*

*To be fair, the classic Chuck picture is actually micro-Uzis, which are easier to control than a MAC-10.
 
Full auto hand guns don't shoot as wildly as some might believe, I guess if you are not holding them right shooting a single shot pistol will give you problems though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7OZoOBYc0
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Wow, nice recoil control. That is convincing, but would require a lot of practice. Most people wouldn't be able to do that (or should I say wouldn't put the practice time in to be able to do that.)
 
Absent any NFA restrictions, I have often thought that a two round burst would be perfect in a defensive firearm. Your sight picture might be very short and limited, and having two rounds on one sight picture could be very beneficial. Would also increase the effectiveness of a lot of low recoil carbine rounds like 5.56 or 9mm.
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It's all about trigger control. I was once handed a full auto (not 3 round burst) ar15 at the range with one 30 rd mag. Just a standard 20" A2 rifle with iron sights.

Even having never fired one before, I was easily able to put 2 and 3 round bursts on my 6" targets @ 50y through the whole magazine. That was literally with no training or instruction other than watching others do it.

If the NFA never existed, I'd definately have select fire in all my AR15s
 
Bump fire is not the same as full auto.

With full auto you are gripping the gun tightly and pushing it back into your shoulder to manage recoil and hold the sight picture on target.

With bump fire, you are intentionally holding the gun loosely to allow it to recoil freely and holding your trigger finger steady so the gun can move back and forth against it.

Bump fire is using poor technique to get around poor legislation.
 
Wow, nice recoil control. That is convincing, but would require a lot of practice. Most people wouldn't be able to do that (or should I say wouldn't put the practice time in to be able to do that.)
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It really doesn't take much practice, once you're shown how to properly do things. Some guns are a little different than others, but the technique is the same for all of them.

Things like the MAC's and the pistols, with or without stocks are a little different, but most of the shoulder fired guns with reasonable cyclic rates are pretty easy, even for a beginner, assuming they are willing to listen and learn. Kids and women are usually the easier people to teach in that respect.


It's all about trigger control.
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Trigger control is a big part of it, but not all of it. I think a lot of new shooters are more focused on the gun than trying to get it to do what they want. Just a little bit of sensory overload.

I've found too, many try to actually use the sights, as opposed to shooting over them, when shooting in FA. That just aggravates the paying attention to what the gun is doing instead of where the rounds are going, as you're not going to be able to hold a sight picture. If you're just going to squeeze off one round, sure, use the sights. Anything more, over the top.

Bump fire is not the same as full auto.
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It's not, although some of the various methods are better than others. The best improvised method I've seen, was the "rubber band" around the mag well mod on the AR's. Once learned, it's pretty close to "on demand" FA, it still requires some effort on your part.

The problem with bump fire is, you really don't have the control, and usually have to focus on the gun to get it to run. Just something else to get in the way. Cheap fun if you have the place and ammo.
 
It really doesn't take much practice, once you're shown how to properly do things. Some guns are a little different than others, but the technique is the same for all of them.

Things like the MAC's and the pistols, with or without stocks are a little different, but most of the shoulder fired guns with reasonable cyclic rates are pretty easy, even for a beginner, assuming they are willing to listen and learn. Kids and women are usually the easier people to teach in that respect.
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I was actually referring to a full auto handgun specifically.

I've never shot one, but the G18, FA CZ-75 and Beretta 93R look like they would be a lot more difficult to master accurate fire that a full auto carbine.
 
I was actually referring to a full auto handgun specifically.
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While my AC556 in a Sage stock is quite easy for me to control in 3-burst or even full-auto; I have to admit I doubt I'd be very effective with a full-auto Glock.
 
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