Fred is out!
- Thread starter grymster2007
- Start date
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Are you just being naive or is their an agenda behind your willful ignorance?
The process they use to donate the money is the same one companies have used for years to solicit donations to charities.
As for newspapers reporting it..some do...but we all know how good corporate owned news media is at telling on itself.
Just like how they were reporting on Enrons activities all the way up to it's collapse...no wait...they did not mention it at all until it was too late even though it turns out that it was widely known in the corporate world and to some extent the investment community for several years that Enron was using illegal activities to hide debt, raise prices, etc.
Surefire_U2
New member
LOL! Love your sense of humor, and agree with you on many points.
Playboypenguin said:
PBP. You've made an allegation you couldn't substantiate. A tax deductible donation made in the employees to a CHARITY to offset the accrued tax burden of the bonus is not illegal. It is additional generosity on behalf of the employer to help with the tax burden. Additionally the employer gave the employee the choice of which charity the contribution would be made. An employer that appreciates his employees it seems.
To do this and make that contribution to a POLITICAL campaign is highly illegal. It is called a 'Straw Donation'. It is a direct violation of federal campaign finance law and as such a Federal Felony. Donations from individuals must be made BY that individual directly, and from their own finances.
The Democrats have had many publicly known and highly publicized scandals doing this. Remember Bill's Chinese money from the Monks (Chineese got preffered trade status and jobs fled there)? More recently Hillary's Chinese money from poor residents in China Town (What more will the Chineese get). Chao's indictment sound familiar?
Now, as mentioned before, it is poor form to make allegations without links as you have. Please find mine below.......
To avoid selective citation allegations and since the citations are so numerous I've simply linked Google search results.
Straw Donation Bill Clinton
Straw Donations Hillary Clinton
Just Staw Donation in general.......
Now, other then more hostility (the default response from liberals when their facts don't pan out) as demonstrated by you when it was ACCURATELY pointed out that this is illegal and you accused that CORRECT member of being either naive or arrogant, what do you have to substantiate your allegations that corporation regularly take or use employees pay or bonuses without their consent to get around campaign finance law? The reason no such substantiation has been made obviously isn't a massive media conspiracy given the plethora of reports in the above links, it's that you you have none.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
They are wrong. They just refuse to admit it. I have experienced it personally and have even received pvt messages from someone on here that has also experienced on the other side. I am hoping he will see fit to post here.
I've been watching the back and forth over corporations and political donations. Playboypenquin has it right. It it real and it happens. My experience is the practice is subdued and hardly public. Not everyone is permitted to participate. I've seen only the more "reliable" employees invited to participate. No memos, no directives, no public pronouncements. Just quite urinal conversations or while tossing a few back on a business trip. All low keyed.
Do not doubt what PBP says.
Do not doubt what PBP says.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Prove that a cash donation made by an employee after receiving a cash bonus from an employer is a "straw donation." It is almost impossible to prove and easy to get away with it. Just like a straw purchase of a firearm. Unless it can be proven that the employee did not do it freely, which is why the employers have the employees sign the contribution statements, there is no crime. At least not one that can be prosecuted successfully. especially when the employees share the political mindset of the employer and are willing participants.
The problem the company in Oregon ran into is that the employees where not as in the loop as they should have been and when it cost them a few dollars at the end of the year they raised a stink. Then some went as far as to claim they did not even support the cause the money was donated to in the first place and that they were not completely sure of the meaning of the papers they originally signed.
Like the gentlemen that contacted me said, they usually only use employees that are "reliable" but it does happen.
Northern Sod Breaker
New member
In regards to Huckabee there are people on this board who seem to forget the lessons hard learned by the democrats in 2004 and 2006. As for Thompson He never realy did get much involved in the campaign (IMHO)
In the general election I still maintain that it will be Huckabee and Edwards, The recent events of Hillary and Obama at each others throats does not help either one. And Hillary's recent attack against Obama will turn alot of people off.
In the general election I still maintain that it will be Huckabee and Edwards, The recent events of Hillary and Obama at each others throats does not help either one. And Hillary's recent attack against Obama will turn alot of people off.
The check being from that individuals own personal account to a candidate or party is how the receiver verifies it. And the scenario above is NOT what you alleged.
Kinda messes up the unwilling thing. And as for the willing, there's no problem there. If it's coerced it puts the employer in a very vulnerable position and any company of size is very adverse to such liabilities. VERY ADVERSE.
Kinda messes up the unwilling thing. And as for the willing, there's no problem there. If it's coerced it puts the employer in a very vulnerable position and any company of size is very adverse to such liabilities. VERY ADVERSE.Playboypenguin
Moderator
I do not believe I have made a single claim about checks. Most of the donations are made as cash donations to limit traceability.
Why are you so set on denying something that happens even after multiple people have told you first hand experiences? I would be curious to your motivation to discard peoples experiences even though you have no personal experience to the contrary.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
You are obviously getting confused.
I made a statement as to how it was a similar process companies I have worked with in the past did their bonus with an option to give money to charities they approved of themselves.
The method of doing this is completely legal and not a bad thing. The system companies where using to give the money to political campaigns is similar but a perverted and underhanded version of the same process.
And aren't you arguing that "straw donations" do not happen? ...or are you admitting that big companies do participate in straw donations but most just don't get caught because it cannot be proven.
That would be admitting that big companies do get around the laws in ways the small guy cannot...which was the original point.
I prefer that allegations carry some kind of substantiation. I've done so. A personal, politically motivated testimony and ESPECIALLY the old 'I gotta PM' keystrokes may be true, may be not, but if this is genuinely happening on any impactive scale as alleged, surly some report or investigation or news article can be cited.
Cash straw donations would be especially problematic as that would require mailing or handing to a candidate a lot of individual envelopes each identifying the contributor and not looking similar. AND the accounting for that business would have red flags to the IRS that would virtually assure either an audit or an embezzlement investigation. Corporate accounting is highly scrutinized and a CPA wouldn't dare put his name to such books.
Don't believe cash gets caught, even in small amounts? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58449
I have seen with my own eyes fully auto AK-47s sold for $175 at gun shows all over my State every month. I got a PM from someone saying it was happening in his State too. Law enforcement is looking the other way and the news media just wants the guns so they aren't reporting it except when it's done by NRA members..........
It's happening everywhere. Why won't you believe me?
Playboypenguin
Moderator
And the person actually chimed in right below me and backed up my claims...so your point is?
Two different people have related their personal experiences and third party experiences, and others even point out cases where rich people have been caught doing it and you still argue. I ask again..what would be the motivation for this since you have no counter experience?
The allegation was:
Fact is that's not true. If they tried it they would meet some new friends from Federal Law enforcment. You made this up or won't support your allegation.
Well someone is that's for sure.
Went from the original allegation to changing it as being done like charity donations, to cash by willing employees to attempting to put words in my mouth.Just back up the claim or simply state you were mistaken.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
The very fact that you admitted that what Zhu did was an example of this happening shows you are talking out both sides of your mouth. You say this is what happened and then you say this never happens. Which is it?
Not true at all...re-read the posts and see if you can figure out where you are wrong.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Someone needs to take it to Court then!!!!!!!!
WildsolvesthatproblemandhaveyouhuggedyourSIGPE57todayAlaska TM