freak muzzleloader loading accident

Adam: If you have not done so, I strongly suggest you get an attorney; preferably one with products liability experience. I do not know anything about the law of your state, but individual states that law suits be filed within so much time of an injury.
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Oh goody! Get another fine product taken off the market over nothing more than speculation. And cost another fine American company money just defending itself.

Suing over BS like this only causes everyone to pay in the end. The loss of useful products, the loss of domestic companies, the loss of jobs and the increase in the cost of everything. After legal fees, the only winner is the lawyers.
 
Who is best held responsible?

Adam, who no one has been able to fault. He had just purchased the primer concversion kit and had waited 5 minutes before reloading or the manufacturer of the kit. Adam is lucky to be alive, but can he work and provide for his family.

Who should bear the burden of the spreading the risk of injuries; the consumer or the manufacturer who hopefully tests their equipment and is able to pass the cost of insurance on to consumers.

And just who do you think is going to go to bat for injured consumers, the manufacturer's lawyers. Sure they can have lawyers up the kazoo, but if an injured party hires one it's "BS". Ask someone who has been around where woking people would be if it wasn't for the lawyers that took on big business.
 
Suing over BS like this only causes everyone to pay in the end. The loss of useful products, the loss of domestic companies, the loss of jobs and the increase in the cost of everything. After legal fees, the only winner is the lawyers.
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Very much correct, sir. Except you left out one of the winners.... this thread. It just got brought back to life after 3 months in the grave!
 
I agree with everyone...Yes it sucks that a gun i have had since i was 10 went off like it did while i was loading it.I loved that gun and think knight has good products but this conversion kit is what i believe caused the accident.I started this thread to see what others thoughts were on this accident and also to find others who have had the same accidents.I have found 2 others with identical accidents and both were with the same style ignition system.Also all 3 of our accidents involved using pyrodex pellets and round balls.I do have an attorney right now and he has been very persistent and very helpful to me and my case.
 
Good for U

I am glad you found an attorney. He or she would probably want you to say no more, as what you do say could find its way back to the manufacturer of the 209 kit.
 
Very much correct, sir. Except you left out one of the winners.... this thread. It just got brought back to life after 3 months in the grave!
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I'm sure Klawman is a lawyer.

And just who do you think is going to go to bat for injured consumers, the manufacturer's lawyers. Sure they can have lawyers up the kazoo, but if an injured party hires one it's "BS". Ask someone who has been around where woking people would be if it wasn't for the lawyers that took on big business.
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Who should go to bat for the consumer? The Consumer, of course. Buddy, if you aren't taking care of yourself, (in this case by having insurance of your own) there isn't anybody else that will.

I love how you lawyers call any business "big business" as some sort of slur to make a cheap play on envy. But the reality is that most businesses are not big businesses by any stretch of the imagination. Most businesses are barely making it. How many 209 conversions do you think a company has to sell just to cover 1 hour of a lawyer's time?

I guess anyone who wants a 209 conversion had better go out and get one now, because by the time the vultures get finished there won't be a company left making them.
 
Dood

Where did I say the maker of the conversion kit was big business? I simply pointed out that you folk should consider where you would be if lawyers didn't take on big business.

Yeah. I used to be a lawyer and my practice was devoted to defending mucipal entities, corporations, and individuals at the request of their insurance companies. Later I specialized in representing consumers against the like.

So your answer is let the injured consumer buy insurance; not the company profiting from selling the product. Assume that many persons injured are working people who can barely afford the necessities of life, and many can't even afford health insurance, how are they to afford disability insurance.

This assumes that neither the consumer nor the manufacturer had any fault for negligence.

And what in the heck makes you think this is an American company and even if it is it isn't manufacturing in Mexico or China?
 
You avoid a very pertinent question. Here, I'll even help you with the math.

Knight 209 Conversion

Call it $50. We can easily assume that the retailer marks up 100%. but let's not. Let's be more "conservative". So, let's say Knight sold it for $40. A profitable company is doing well when they make 10% after everything is said and done. That would be $4 profit on these things after Knight pays their employees, suppliers, rent and taxes, etc.

A corporate lawyer goes for $200/hr minimum. So that means Knight's has to sell 50 of the conversions simply to pay for a lawyer to write a letter. What if this goes to court? Or even settles? I can see an easy 10 hours in that. So now Knight's has to sell 500 of those things. This isn't even considering any payments to the plaintiff or the plaintiff lawyer's fees.

Just how big do you think the market is for 209 conversions? Give me some numbers.

My guess would be that they *might* sell 500 of those in a whole damn year. Even if Knight has insurance that pays, what do you imagine the insurance company is going to do to their rates?

This isn't difficult math figuring out why lawsuits are a major contributor to the decline of American manufacturing.
 
This isn't difficult math figuring out why lawsuits are a major contributor to the decline of American manufacturing.
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More like everything. Maybe the lawyers are just the result of most of America being babyies though.

This is a common problem w/ BP guns. If you didn't look into BP enough to know that, you were negligent in the accident. Knight should not be responsible for something totally unrelated to their specific design. This could happen in ANY BP gun. Bringing suit for this would be like getting in a motorcycle accident and suing the manufacturer for not installing a sufficient crumple zone.

1.Use plastic Sabots
2. DO NOT PUT YOUR BODY IN FRONT OF THE GUN(rule #4). If possible hold the ram rod on the edges and RAM it down into the bullet, multiple times is not unusual.
 
so you guys are telling me if you had a product that you believed to have malfunctioned and caused physical injury to you or to someone you cared about you would just suck it up and deal with the outcome without putting any effort in letting the manufacturer know it has a prob.Tell that to all the cva gun owners who have had them blow up in there faces.Its called product liability you make the gun(or the conversion kit)you better make damn well sure its not going to cause an accident or a death.I have the freedom to bring a lawsuit against the company and have them defend whether there conversion kit caused the accident.And if i lose and they prove the theory wrong then so be it ill let it go.
 
The product did not malfunction. This is a known characteristics of all BP guns. You bought it and you should have looked into known characteristics before you started shooting it. There is probably something in the manual that talks about it. You admitted you should have swabbed the barrel. Not saying I do it every time, but i know I should and it is my fault if I have an accident because I do not follow safety procedure.

A few years ago some kids bought some black diamond climbing equipment and tried to go climbing with it. They tried to sue the company b/c they didn't know what they were doing and got hurt. They lost.

It is not the companies fault. Suing the "deep pockets" in any situation simply because they are "deep pockets" shows an absolute lack of character. You are responsible for this b/c YOU took a chance when you bought a BP gun. YOU should bear the burden, hopefully you had insurance.
Be ready to pay court costs for them and face a counter suit for libel resulting from this post if you lose.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe all the people who have used graphite arrows should sue the manufacturers for the injuries they received to their hands when the arrows shattered.

Maybe I should file a lawsuit against you for causing me trauma by threatening my ability to buy a 209 primer conversion kit with your frivolous lawsuit. I could, and if I only sue for two or 3 grand you would be better off to settle it than to hire a lawyer. Hell, I could contact everyone who ever read this post and we could make a class action out of it.

Just went to their compny website. Looks like they are closing down.
 
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no 209primer was not struck.
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End of story dude. How did a primer conversion kit, that did not cause the primer to fire in any way, cause the gun to go off? Simple, it didn't. You had a very bad, purely freak, accident. Quit trying to find someone to blame. So what, idiots follow a lot less safety precautions than you and don't get hurt. That has nothing to do with this. Yes, you did everything "right". It is not your fault. That does NOT make it someone else's fault. If you just HAVE to blame someone, blame God. You drew the short straw and lost.

I sincerely hope you heal and do better than the doctors think you will. I pray that. You have to accept that you got a raw deal but it is not this company's fault.

God bless man. I do feel your pain. I am disabled and I blame no one even though I have worked many jobs that were hard on me and one might get by with blaming one of them for my condition but I don't because there is no ONE incident that I can point to. I accept my fate and deal with the constant pain I endure every day as best I can. 2 weeks ago they found a tumor in my bladder... who would I blame for that?
 
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#11
adam0bomb
Junior Member


Join Date: 2009-02-20
Location: Elkhart indiana
Posts: 7
Quote:
have also considered suing the maker of the 209 conversion kit...
Why? You screwed up. Man up and admit it and quit looking to blame someone else.

Your post are very difficult to read.

-and how did i "screw up"?
seems like there are plenty of people on here that can read my post.you dont have to comment if you cant even read or understand my post.
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With regards to the actual shooting incident, I really have no idea. However I note you posted on a public forum that you know you should have swabbed the barrel, but didn't. That strikes me as a major 'screw up'.

It strikes me as wise to swab the barrel between shots when shooting a muzzleloader.
 
Get it straight

I would like to know two things. Did this 209 converion significantly increase the amount of time that the breech remained hot and, if it did, did the manufacturer include a warning to that effect with the product? If the answer to each is yes, the manufacturer has a big problem. Especially if it believes that the accident wouldn't have happened if the warning had been given.

That could be because it finds that Adam wouldn't had used the kit, would have swabbed the barrel, or would in some other way have avoided injury but for the manufacturer's failure to provide an adequate warning of the risk.

Answer me this. Assume the above but that Adam was sitting down while reloading. Consequently his barrel was pointed behind the firing line. A pregnant 19 year old woman caught the ball in her brain and is now a paraplegic. Of course the baby died. Adam is so distraught at what had happened, he shoots himself. His estate is penniless.

Should the manufacturer be responsible for the woman's damages?
 
Should the manufacturer be responsible for the woman's damages?
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No. He still would have broken rule #2 or #4. He would be responsible.

I don't swab the barrel between shots. I reload with smoke still pouring out the barrel. So did a million soldiers in the Civil war. They kept their hand and body out of the way of the barrel. I usually succeed at keeping my hand out of the way, but not always. All a part of muzzle loaders.
 
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should the manufacturer be responsible for the womans damage`s.
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johnwilliamson wrote: "No. he still would have broken rule #4." Great response john. In the hypothetical scene TheKlawMan portrayed muzzle should`nt have been pointed behind firing line at any time. Adam would be to blame, no one else. AdamObomb, am very sorry to hear of your accident and hope your recovery is quick. IMO, not clearing(choose your safe method) a BP barrel is an unwise thing to do and in many BP manuals/DVD`s that come with many new BP guns, shows swabbing between shots. Its just basic BP safety. Your dumping an explosive down a tube thats probably warm/hot with NO guarantee that all the powder from previous load is totally spent. THATS BP SHOOTING . Clearing/swabbing barrel should be part of basic shooting safety.FWIW, I`d rather swab barrel after shot than shoot BP gun for years,then one day have that accident and realize my mistake. With MUCH respect I don`t see how 209 conv. kit enters into this accident!
 
adamObomb, after reading more of this thread can you explain specifically why you feel the conv. kit is responsible for accident? Please don`t get offensive I`m not being sarcastic just failing to understand your thoughts. If your equating the fact that an explosion like this has never happened to you before and you`ve been shooting this rifle since you were 10 and the only thing different is a new 209 conv. kit, have you forgot about the new pack of BP pellets or primers. Were the pellets old? How were they stored? Again ,what makes you single out conversion kit, how did it cause accident:confused:?
 
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