freak muzzleloader loading accident
- Thread starter adam0bomb
- Start date
question
sorry about your injuries, Hope it rehabs well.
Question: was a fresh primer on the weapon?
If you put the primer on first it could have been your fault.
but only if primer went off
I blow air down the barrel and it is safe as long as the gun is not loaded.
Shoot, cock gun, remove primer/cap, blow.
It does look dangerous but unless you load it and forget you did it would not be dangerous.
How could that be unsafe.
The extra air helps burn the embers. patches make this problem worse as threads might lodge in bore and smolder.
The ember theory seems most likely.
as you were pushing the ball down the barrel it may have pushed an ember down to the charge
sorry about your injuries, Hope it rehabs well.
Question: was a fresh primer on the weapon?
If you put the primer on first it could have been your fault.
but only if primer went off
I blow air down the barrel and it is safe as long as the gun is not loaded.
Shoot, cock gun, remove primer/cap, blow.
It does look dangerous but unless you load it and forget you did it would not be dangerous.
How could that be unsafe.
The extra air helps burn the embers. patches make this problem worse as threads might lodge in bore and smolder.
The ember theory seems most likely.
as you were pushing the ball down the barrel it may have pushed an ember down to the charge
Adam0bomb,
thank goodness you are alive. As to your injuries, physical therapy works wonders. Thank you for sharing your story as a reminder for all to be careful with not only firearms, but all instruments. I, too, fire black powder, and realize the dangers inherent to the craft. It is stories like yours that remind me to always do things by the numbers. This is another reason to make sure the firing piece is always pointed in a safe direction. In that you were loading your firearm, it was necessary to involve your appendages in the line of fire, yet you were careful to have your head (which is still attached to your body) and your friends out of the line of fire. You were being safe under the circumstances (reloading). You did right. Ignore those that judge you unfairly. Life will judge (teach) them on this sooner than they think./// Less than two months back a friend and I were firing his Stag AR-15 (a really beautiful rifle). Having passed the rifle to me, he went to the bench to load a new magazine. I kept the rifle pointing downrange as is my natural inclination. Thinking the ammunition expended, I pulled the trigger to confirm that the chamber was empty. Much to my surprise, the rifle discharged, BUT in a safe direction. AND that is why we always do things by the numbers, so when there is a mishap, it is not fatal. Good luck to you, Adam0bomb.
- JKHolman
thank goodness you are alive. As to your injuries, physical therapy works wonders. Thank you for sharing your story as a reminder for all to be careful with not only firearms, but all instruments. I, too, fire black powder, and realize the dangers inherent to the craft. It is stories like yours that remind me to always do things by the numbers. This is another reason to make sure the firing piece is always pointed in a safe direction. In that you were loading your firearm, it was necessary to involve your appendages in the line of fire, yet you were careful to have your head (which is still attached to your body) and your friends out of the line of fire. You were being safe under the circumstances (reloading). You did right. Ignore those that judge you unfairly. Life will judge (teach) them on this sooner than they think./// Less than two months back a friend and I were firing his Stag AR-15 (a really beautiful rifle). Having passed the rifle to me, he went to the bench to load a new magazine. I kept the rifle pointing downrange as is my natural inclination. Thinking the ammunition expended, I pulled the trigger to confirm that the chamber was empty. Much to my surprise, the rifle discharged, BUT in a safe direction. AND that is why we always do things by the numbers, so when there is a mishap, it is not fatal. Good luck to you, Adam0bomb.
- JKHolman
rem870hunter
New member
sorry to hear, really sucks that it happened.
they can be dangerous, but if exercising caution they can be fine and fun to shoot. if there was not a primer in/on the nipple or an ember still burning in the breach. the chances of it going off are very slim. i've shot load after load and never had anything even close to that. never had the powder light after pouring it down the muzzle. i wait maybe 10 seconds between shots.
not really sure how it would not have happened to those who shot them centuries ago. afterall "a good man can fire three aimed shots in a minute". i fired 5 once. i'm not trying that again.
they can be dangerous, but if exercising caution they can be fine and fun to shoot. if there was not a primer in/on the nipple or an ember still burning in the breach. the chances of it going off are very slim. i've shot load after load and never had anything even close to that. never had the powder light after pouring it down the muzzle. i wait maybe 10 seconds between shots.
not really sure how it would not have happened to those who shot them centuries ago. afterall "a good man can fire three aimed shots in a minute". i fired 5 once. i'm not trying that again.
Same thing happened to me with a knight wolverine muzzle loader using 209 primers. I shot the gun, put the safeties on, and pried off the used primer. I reloaded after a couple minutes and when I rammed the ball home the gun went off. I am lucky to be alive and the doctors were able to fix my hand, wrist and arm which were foolishly in the line of fire.
ElectricHellfire
New member
Wow. Sorry to hear about your injury. Not really sure about what happened as the only black power rifle I own is a Hawken and not an in-line. Never seen anything like that happen personally although I've heard of them.
jrinne0430
New member
Wow 
that is scary and sorry to hear about your injuries. The incident you described is one of my greatest fears when muzzle loading. I always blow the barrel out between shots and it takes me about 1 min+/- before I am ready to load the next (I am very slow with filling the powder measure). No telling what caused your to fire.
that is scary and sorry to hear about your injuries. The incident you described is one of my greatest fears when muzzle loading. I always blow the barrel out between shots and it takes me about 1 min+/- before I am ready to load the next (I am very slow with filling the powder measure). No telling what caused your to fire.I am trying to figure out just how static electricity could build up inside the steel barrel of a firearm?
Even if the charge was actually on the person doing the relaoding, if he/she was touching the barrel there would be no place for the static to discharge to.
I vote for the ember theory, even though it sounds crazy that it could still exist after all that time.
Basic safe gun handling rule #1 and perhaps the most important one, is to:
"Never point the muzzle of a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy".
Rather that blowing down the muzzle,
"Pump the Ramrod". Open you bolt or cock the hammer and insert your rod and pump it about four times or until you don't see anymore smoke out of your vent. Please keep some of your favorite boby parts out of the way!!!
Be Safe !!!
*big breath in......*.........! *gasp*......Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures Pictures
Do it!
Do it!jrinne0430
New member
I guess I should have been more specific. I use the CO2 device (sold by Cabela's) as my blowing method between shots.
vranasaurus
New member
How exactly did he screw up?
If there is a flaw in the product that can cause this malfunction the manufacturer should certainly be sued. I am not saying there is but it should certainly be looked into.
Well I am glad you are both alive. I think JuicyHog may have understated the severity of his injuries, as i was there to witness it first hand. I also witnessed his heroic march 3/4 of a mile back to the truck, with his blown up arm hanging at his side.
I shoot muzzle loaders. I have never cared for the inlines. I have rammed charges home with no cool down, time and time again.
You can say "be carful". You can give advice. You can say "they screwed up!"
I say their number was up. All of us grubby soot covered shooters, should be thankful, that it wasnt our own number that was up.
I shoot muzzle loaders. I have never cared for the inlines. I have rammed charges home with no cool down, time and time again.
You can say "be carful". You can give advice. You can say "they screwed up!"
I say their number was up. All of us grubby soot covered shooters, should be thankful, that it wasnt our own number that was up.
Sorry to hear about the accident, hope you regain use of everything.
A note about blackpowder and pellets:
Blackpowder is classed as an explosive and not a propellant like smokeless powder (Pyrodex, etc.). Blackpowder is somewhat unstable and can be set off with pressure (so can smokeless, but it's less likely). Pyrodex pellets have a coating of blackpowder on the base to help with ignition. My theory is that in the act of ramming the ball home perhaps the pressure ignited the black powder coating. While I've never heard of this it is theoretically possible. Of course static electricity or an ember could be the culprit. I would be interested to know the difference in ADs such as this between shooters using real blackpowder and smokeless substitutes, though figures would no doubt be difficult to gather. My $0.02...
A note about blackpowder and pellets:
Blackpowder is classed as an explosive and not a propellant like smokeless powder (Pyrodex, etc.). Blackpowder is somewhat unstable and can be set off with pressure (so can smokeless, but it's less likely). Pyrodex pellets have a coating of blackpowder on the base to help with ignition. My theory is that in the act of ramming the ball home perhaps the pressure ignited the black powder coating. While I've never heard of this it is theoretically possible. Of course static electricity or an ember could be the culprit. I would be interested to know the difference in ADs such as this between shooters using real blackpowder and smokeless substitutes, though figures would no doubt be difficult to gather. My $0.02...
TheKlawMan
Moderator
AdamObomb
Adam: If you have not done so, I strongly suggest you get an attorney; preferably one with products liability experience. I do not know anything about the law of your state, but individual states that law suits be filed within so much time of an injury. For exmple, one web site from an Indiana attorney says it is 2 years for a personal injury case, but to verify the period of limitations of actions with an attorney.
There are also rules specifying the tolling of the period, which I won't get into but even if one's period seems to have expired it may have time left should one or more of the tolling rules apply to their situration.
Depending on your states laws, there may be no such thing as a "freak accident" if this is classified as what is called an "ultrahazardous" product. If it is and if you were using the product in the manner for which it was intended, and it sounds as if you were doing just that, you may have a very strong case. In some states, and I don't know the law of your state, a manufacturer is held "strictly liable" regardless of negligence, for injury to a consumer as long as the product is being used as intended.
I don't know about the manufacturer of your gun, as you modified it and had it since you were 10, but an attorney from your state can advise you on that. I am focusing on the 209 conversion kit and possible more than its manufacturer.
Once again, depending on the law of your state, anyone involved with the "stream of commerce" of the kit may be liable. The manufacturer, the importer, distributor, and retailer. I assume you installed it yourself according to its instructions.
You may find this article helpful. even if your case has nothing to do with CVA. I suspect its author may be able to refer you to an attorney with expertise in black powder cases. http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm
I hope your recovery is going well. Please find an attorney as you should not rely on anyting I have written as it may not apply to the laws of your state. In fact, if the conversion kit was purchased in antother state or hour injury occured there, your state's laws may not even govern. Get an attorney.
Adam: If you have not done so, I strongly suggest you get an attorney; preferably one with products liability experience. I do not know anything about the law of your state, but individual states that law suits be filed within so much time of an injury. For exmple, one web site from an Indiana attorney says it is 2 years for a personal injury case, but to verify the period of limitations of actions with an attorney.
There are also rules specifying the tolling of the period, which I won't get into but even if one's period seems to have expired it may have time left should one or more of the tolling rules apply to their situration.
Depending on your states laws, there may be no such thing as a "freak accident" if this is classified as what is called an "ultrahazardous" product. If it is and if you were using the product in the manner for which it was intended, and it sounds as if you were doing just that, you may have a very strong case. In some states, and I don't know the law of your state, a manufacturer is held "strictly liable" regardless of negligence, for injury to a consumer as long as the product is being used as intended.
I don't know about the manufacturer of your gun, as you modified it and had it since you were 10, but an attorney from your state can advise you on that. I am focusing on the 209 conversion kit and possible more than its manufacturer.
Once again, depending on the law of your state, anyone involved with the "stream of commerce" of the kit may be liable. The manufacturer, the importer, distributor, and retailer. I assume you installed it yourself according to its instructions.
You may find this article helpful. even if your case has nothing to do with CVA. I suspect its author may be able to refer you to an attorney with expertise in black powder cases. http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm
I hope your recovery is going well. Please find an attorney as you should not rely on anyting I have written as it may not apply to the laws of your state. In fact, if the conversion kit was purchased in antother state or hour injury occured there, your state's laws may not even govern. Get an attorney.
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