Four deputies refuse to make entry into school

Funny how everyone against guns says that the military is highly trained and civilians are not capable of owning such weapons...

That’s a bunch of hooey, my dad taught me more about shooting pistols and semi auto rifles in an old caliche pit by the time I was 9 than I ever learned in the army...

Now I did learn a few things about running some machine guns that I didn’t learn as a kid. An inert claymore got the best of me in training once.
 
WyMark said:
Good to know that "To Serve and Protect" is just a marketing slogan. Presumably just to justify their taxpayer funded salaries.

And here I had always considered it more of a promise. I'm so naive.
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I understand from some various discussions that on the east coast deputies are not the same type of law enforcement officer as we have in the west. Out here the Sheriff and his deputies patrol the unincorporated areas in a county and usually have cooperation agreements with the city police forces within the county. On the East Coast they may be more just court bailiffs, summons deliverers, etc.

BUT, if you are not an active shooter responder then you should not be at an active shooter incident. If your job is not to engage active shooters then why are you wearing a gun? To me it is simple, if you wear a gun as a deputy and you are first to arrive at an active shooter school/mall incident then you have a duty to engage. If you believe you do not have such a duty then stay the heck away from the scene and let real LEOs do their job. And why are you wearing a gun anyway? If you are a county clerk's go-fer, then you don't need to be armed and you can call on the real police if need arises. They will be there in just minutes, sometimes.

And by the way BCSO, how do four deputies "secure the perimeter" of a high school with all four of them crouched behind the same patrol car? Would you like to tray for excuse #47?
 
Here in Maine Sheriffs and their deputies are the primary source of law enforcement in most rural areas, and that’s most of the state.
 
Last night on TV they interviewed a Broward County Deputy that was apparently their union rep.

1. He said the radio traffic indicated a Supervisor told them to secure the area about ten minutes after the shooting started.

2. The deputies are being called Browards Cowards when they go in places to eat now.

3. The Sheriff is not releasing the radio traffic.

4. By the time the SWAT guys went in the kid was gone.
 
Mainah said:
Here in Maine Sheriffs and their deputies are the primary source of law enforcement in most rural areas, and that’s most of the state.
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Really? Admittedly, I'm not from Maine, but until they died I spent all summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine, and after their deaths I spent most summer vacations in and around Acadia. I have never even heard the word "sheriff" mentioned, nor have I ever seen a sheriff's office vehicle. It never occurred to me that Maine eve had sheriffs.

I thought the state police were the primary law enforcement in areas that don't have their own police departments. Is that because I've always been in coastal areas, and the sheriffs are found more in the north woods areas?
 
Last night on TV they interviewed a Broward County Deputy that was apparently their union rep.

1. He said the radio traffic indicated a Supervisor told them to secure the area about ten minutes after the shooting started.

2. The deputies are being called Browards Cowards when they go in places to eat now.

3. The Sheriff is not releasing the radio traffic.

4. By the time the SWAT guys went in the kid was gone.
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Various reports put the length of time of the actual shooting at different numbers. I've seen reports that it lasted as little as 5 minutes. The longest I've seen reported so far is 7-1/2 minutes. Forget about SWAT -- if the stand-down order came 10 minutes after the shooting started, it was already over and the shooter was already gone when the order came. Of course, if they were on the outside they didn't know that, but what the heck? It's a school -- how many kids can even a poor, clumsy shooter kill in ten minutes? They should have already been in the building long before ten minutes elapsed. Especially Peterson.
 
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Really? Admittedly, I'm not from Maine, but until they died I spent all summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine, and after their deaths I spent most summer vacations in and around Acadia. I have never even heard the word "sheriff" mentioned, nor have I ever seen a sheriff's office vehicle. It never occurred to me that Maine eve had sheriffs.

I thought the state police were the primary law enforcement in areas that don't have their own police departments. Is that because I've always been in coastal areas, and the sheriffs are found more in the north woods areas?
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I used to live in a rural town with no police force. The sheriff's office and the state troopers split patrol duty. I lived in Bar Harbor for years, pretty much all of the small towns on the island have their own forces. And there's plenty of territory in Hancock County for the deputies to patrol. County sheriff offices handle a lot of patrol work in Maine.
 
manta49 said:
Are the police equipped with rifles, if not why not. ?
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The short answer is it depends on the city/county/whatever and their budget. Smaller depts may not have the budget to equip their officers with a rifle. Someone will likely supply a more detailed answer, but as I understand it budget limitations will dictate whether a department will issue rifles to their officers as much as any other concern.
 
manta49 all of the police in my area, including the local communities, Sheriff's deputies, and State police carry ARs in their patrol vehicles. I would guess this is true in most places, although I do not know if this is true in Boward county.
 
In the county next to mine, the sheriffs office has trained residents who live near the schools to assist in a school incident since they may be able to get to the school faster in the event of an emergency. The people have special shirts they wear and are alerted if there is an emergency and are allowed to go in and stop the shooter. I am not sure what the training entails and I don't have more info than this...
 
Police in this area are equipped with a long gun - normally a shotgun. Many also carry a personal long gun in the trunk in case they need it.
 
Cops waiting is why the École Polytechnique murders happened in Montreal. Reports at the time said the Montreal cops waited 30 minutes before going in. 28 people shot, 14 women killed.
 
Is it conceivable that they had some bit of information that the shooter may have exited the building and were simply securing it against reentry? Were they standing at the cars ignoring the sound of ongoing gunfire?
 
Lohman446 said:
Were they standing at the cars ignoring the sound of ongoing gunfire?
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Peterson certainly did exactly that.

They could not have known the shooter had left. When the first officers went in, they were still being told where he was [supposed to be] in the building, because whoever was on the video monitors didn't know there was a 20-minute time delay.
 
Can we judge the actions of the other four the same as Peterson's? Look Peterson was the first on scene, had an active ongoing shooter, and basically fled the building. His actions are not defensible.

However they are not the same actions as the responding deputies. We cannot judge the two as inseparable.
 
Lohman446 said:
Can we judge the actions of the other four the same as Peterson's? Look Peterson was the first on scene, had an active ongoing shooter, and basically fled the building. His actions are not defensible.

However they are not the same actions as the responding deputies. We cannot judge the two as inseparable.
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It was not known that the shooter had departed the area of operations until well after the purported stand-down order at time line +10:00. If the other deputies arrived prior to the order to stand down, the belief was that there was an active shooter, and they should have entered and attempted to engage.
 
Cops waiting is why the École Polytechnique murders happened in Montreal. Reports at the time said the Montreal cops waited 30 minutes before going in. 28 people shot, 14 women killed.
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That was 1989 and in Canada and prior to Columbine. At least in the US, everything changed regarding active shooters in 1999 with Columbine, particularly at schools. Odd, you call them murders and not a mass shooting. Prior to 1999, "containing" the situation and waiting for backup/SWAT was SOP.

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My local Sheriff made it known publicly what his office's policies are regarding mass shootings.

"All commissioned Deputies if you respond to an active shooter you are expected to take immediate action. We do not stage and wait for SWAT, we do not take cover in a parking lot, and we do not wait for any other agency," he wrote. "We go in and do our duty. We go in to engage and stop the shooter and save lives."
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He went on to say any deputies who did not feel that they could fulfill the obligation should let it be known and that he would try to have them reassigned.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/den...nds-deputies-active-shooter-situation-go-duty

Facebook copy of letter on DCSO FB page...
https://www.facebook.com/DentonCoSh...170837549289/1834017479964608/?type=3&theater
 
Honestly, I don't understand how someone who supposedly puts on a badge because he wants to maintain law and order could live with himself after doing nothing in a mass shooting situation. This Peterson fella is a coward. My Dad wore a badge when I was young and again after he retired from working in a steel mill. He always made it clear to me that he was more than willing to die while saving others, if that's what it took. I'm not, with the exception of my family, so that's why I didn't follow in his foot steps and become a LEO.
 
I agree if your wear a badge do what you need to do, or find another line of work. I have a CC and would of personally had to enter the building if I was there, regardless of the legal ramifications or worrying about life or limb. l don't know how they can live with themselves. Maybe I would have felt different when I was young, before my children were raised, I don't know. All I know is I can't imagine the pain for so many families.
 
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