Florida attempts to pass open carry.........

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Sheriff Coats can rattle his saber and thump his chest all he wants, but the bottom line is that the SCOTUS has drawn what is called a "bright line" with Terry and then Hiibel. An LEO cannot detain or investigate anyone without having (in SCOTUS language) "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed." If state law says that carrying a handgun exposed ls legal, then there can be nothing about seeing a person wearing a handgun that would give rise to any "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts" that there is possible criminal activity.

An LEO is allowed to informally approach you and initiate a conversation: "Howdy. Nice day, isn't it? By the way, do you have a permit for that gun?"

And you are equally allowed to ignore him and walk away, or be polite and say "Yep, sure do" before walking away. Any officer who "prones out" a citizen for suspicion of engaging in lawful activity is staring right into the muzzle of a lawsuit for violation of civil rights under color of law. Most officers have had some training in the legalities of "Terry stops" and they know this. Those who don't will find out, at their peril.

Bottom line: The police are NOT allowed to detain or interrogate people at random when there's nothing to indicate the citizen may have broken the law. The corollary is driving a car. A driver's license is required, in every state. The police do not, and legally CANnot, assume that every person they see driving a car is a potential violator and stop every car to demand the license and registration.
 
Florida Open Carry - Vote on Wednesday

Today the Florida Senate, scheduled SB 234, the open carry bill, for a full vote on Wednesday. Cross your fingers Floridians!
 
For those that live in Florida, (which, I do) I hope this vote goes the way you want it to. I still do not understand the need to open carry, the logic, and the tactical advantage. I have read the threads here and on other web sites and I am not convinced it is the way to go.

Many years ago I had a house outside of Phoenix, AZ. At that time open carry was allowed. I do not remember if one needed a CCW permit to do so or it was open carry if you did not have a permit. Regardless, in the several years that I lived there, I saw only one person open carry when he blew by me on his motorcycle. The only advantage I personally exercised was once while I was at home, I had my gun in my holster on my belt and had to run to my car in the driveway to retrieve something from my car. I did not have to put on a jacket or other cover up to go outside.

So with that being said, it would be interesting to hear from those that have either a pro or a con position on open carry. I am very open to hearing what you have to say.

As a point of interest, my wife and I will be socializing this coming Saturday with two buddies and their wives that are active local police detectives. I want to get their take on their position. One of these two guys is my shooting buddy and is very pro gun...his perspective will certainly be of major interest.
 
A "need" should not be required in order for something to be legal.

Legal open carry prevents nuisance charges from being brought against those carrying concealed if they accidentally print, or uncover their firearms. Or, as you mentioned, sometimes expedience prevents quick, easy, and safe concealment.
 
45Gunner,

I have no intention to carry openly. Nonetheless, I don't think I should be prevented from doing so if I change my mind. I will fight for my rights whether or not I intend to exercise them.
 
The way I read the 2nd Amendment, a citizen should be able to go about his daily business with any weapon an ordinary infantryman would carry. That doesn’t include crew-served weapons, but does include all small arms.

While I think going to Perkins with an M16 at port arms would be a really bad idea, I do believe it’s what the framers intended.

That being said, I don’t intend to open carry. Absent an emergency where carrying a long gun is necessary, I’ll stick to CCW.
 
I do not agree with open carry either BUT the more 2A restrictions that are lifted the better. It's a move toward the right direction.
 
Seems to me that open carry should be legal as well as concealed. I don't encourage open carry because it alarms some people and for tactical reasons in general, but there are certainly many occassions when open carry is appropriate. It certainly should be an option.
 
I agree with Tyme--I'd hate to get charged with brandishing or whatnot if my shirt inadvertently lifts up and exposes my rig.

If this passes, I could probably wear OWB (concealed) without fear of legal exposure.
 
As I wouldn't open carry myself, I think this would be a step in the right direction for any state towards concealed carry for all. I live in Maryland right now and to get a concealed carry permit here is next to impossible. I would definitely carry concealed if I were to get a permit, but I think I'd have to move to another state for that to happen.
 
Legal open carry prevents nuisance charges from being brought against those carrying concealed if they accidentally print, or uncover their firearms. Or, as you mentioned, sometimes expedience prevents quick, easy, and safe concealment.
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Absolutely correct being that the Florida statutes on this very topic are extremely vague. As this lawyer has stated in his book www.floridafirearmslaw.com there is NO case law to reference on this matter.
 
It is a tool. It is a right.

If hammers were vilified by the media and our wise legislators determined them detrimental to society, every time someone saw a carpenter, they would become "alarmed".

The public just needs to be re-acclimated to the visible presence of the guns that have always been there. I don't believe the old adage, "out of sight, out of mind," applies here. Our rights should be on people's mind and we as a people, should discuss them, regularly.

Personally, I am required to wear a gun at work. Throughout the day, and both before and after my schedule, I usually make a stop or two at a restaurant or a convenience store, and it is quite the hassle to unarm, or cover up, just to grab a bite or get gas. Especially, when those places are usually a higher target for thieves and robbers.

I welcome the common sense legislation being put forth by this great State. It's about time that our leaders...lead.

Bill
 
Perhaps my wording was not the clearest; I fully understand the rights issue and support the second amendment with all my heart and soul. What I am eluding to is not the fact that open carry is or is not a right granted under the second amendment ,but, asking what advantage does open carry have for the average citizen such as you and I?

Granted, you have the right to carry concealed and thus should have the right to open carry. What I want to know is why one would prefer to open carry over conceal carry? There is no right or wrong answer...I am merely trying to understand your point of view if you support open carry, not as a right, but as a method or style of carry. As I said, I do not prefer and will probably not open carry even if it were legalized. That is my point of view and I hold it for many reasons personal to me. Educate me to your thoughts and preferences. Who knows, perhaps I will learn something and you will change my mind. Fire away......

I would ask that you avoid the obvious such as: I have to take the trash out and didn't want to cover up or take off my gun. Give me something substantial that will show me tactical advantage or some other solid reason that you feel open carry is well suited for the gun carrying membership.
 
45Gunner...

.... try this on for size:

If you were carrying your CCW, and a strong wind pushed your shirt back, you wouldn't have to worry about being charged with unlawful display, disturbing the peace, etc, if your CCW were momentarily uncovered. (Or if you bent over or did something that caused momentary printing, even though the weapon remained covered.)

As it currently stands in Florida, that could happen. It would be up to the discretion of the individual observing/responding officer, and the individual prosecutor.

If OC were legalized, the concern would be eliminated.

Of course, they could also revise Florida's CC laws to protect permit-holders against charges or loss of permit for instances of momentary, inadverdent display; but so far I don't believe they have done that.
 
Granted, you have the right to carry concealed and thus should have the right to open carry.
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Actually, the opposite is more true. The SCOTUS in Heller highlighted that laws against concealed carry were typically upheld where open carry was historically protected.

I believe the CCW case law history evolved from older societal customs which dictated that hiding one's gun was underhanded, sneaky and somewhat dishonorable.

Today, because it's much less common, open carry of a pistol is seen more as rude, or worse, threatening. Since 37 states (or whatever the number is presently) have enacted shall-issue CCW licensing, the 'norm' is now to conceal.

But if open carry is not allowed, there emerges a variety of potential pitfalls to the CCW-only regimen. Some have already been mentioned such as inadvertent exposure of the weapon.

Other problems may include a sudden need to carry a weapon when no suitable clothing is at hand to sufficiently conceal the gun. It is possible to imagine any number of plausible circumstances and reasons why open carry can not, and should not be prohibited, starting with the fact that it is historically, and presently, IMO, a fundamental right.
 
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