First time @ 100yard lane... Oh the disappointment :(
- Thread starter RubenX
- Start date
savagelover
New member
LOL Boy am I glad I didn't start this post..By the time I got to the end of it
I was like totaly confused...I do agree with just shooting the group and not worry about the scope adjustment,unless your going hunting...
For a new shooter,just aim for the bulls eye and let the bullets go where they will...As long as your on traget...This will give you time to get used to shooting..Like trigger control,recoil,etc..Then start making your adjustment..You will be more confident then.....Good luck....
I was like totaly confused...I do agree with just shooting the group and not worry about the scope adjustment,unless your going hunting...
For a new shooter,just aim for the bulls eye and let the bullets go where they will...As long as your on traget...This will give you time to get used to shooting..Like trigger control,recoil,etc..Then start making your adjustment..You will be more confident then.....Good luck....
This question always comes to mind in a thread like this why do so many new shooters select a 30-06, had a young fellow approach me at the range few weeks back he was shooting 22 ask about my rifle a 223, said he wanted a center fire for target shooting and his "buddies" said he should buy a 7mm mag. I ask if he intended to hunt Elk, no he laughed just target well then your buddies are giving bad advice. i guess "buddies" deem it cool to see a friend get his shoulder kicked off before he learns to shoot.
Just a pet peeve of mine continue on.
Just a pet peeve of mine continue on.
@ Japle, I'm in Seminole County, north or Orlando. Close enough to go to the parks every time I want but far enough as not to see any tourists in my neighborhood. I've been driving up to Daytona (Strickland Range) because the few ranges I've found around here that do allow me to shoot 30-06, are short (25 yards) and indoors (too noisy). I also read good things about the Indian River County Range (200 yard lanes?) but haven't been there yet.
plumbernater
New member
Check the scope . Make sure its not loose. First time out no one is an expert
Art touched on this, but I'll stress it even more...
It is CRITICAL that the rifle be shot from a solid benchrest when zeroing a scope, and do it with the greatest magnification available. That's WHEN you get to the point that you're ready to zero....
A shooting rest is best-especially for a new shooter like yourself. The goal is to remove shooter error as much as possible. In the least, a set of bags front and rear. I use a bipod and rear bag.
As others have said, I wouldn't even worry about zeroing the scope yet. When I build/get a new stick, it might be months of load development before I settle on something and actually zero the scope. If you're shooting groups, it doesn't matter where they are on the target- it's how "tight" they are that's important.
Keep the exact same point of aim every time.
Try different types, and weights of ammunition, and keep a log book record of # rounds fired, and the results of each ammo type tested. Eventually, one will stand out as "best"...then you can get down to the business of zeroing the scope...
It is CRITICAL that the rifle be shot from a solid benchrest when zeroing a scope, and do it with the greatest magnification available. That's WHEN you get to the point that you're ready to zero....
A shooting rest is best-especially for a new shooter like yourself. The goal is to remove shooter error as much as possible. In the least, a set of bags front and rear. I use a bipod and rear bag.
As others have said, I wouldn't even worry about zeroing the scope yet. When I build/get a new stick, it might be months of load development before I settle on something and actually zero the scope. If you're shooting groups, it doesn't matter where they are on the target- it's how "tight" they are that's important.
Keep the exact same point of aim every time.
Try different types, and weights of ammunition, and keep a log book record of # rounds fired, and the results of each ammo type tested. Eventually, one will stand out as "best"...then you can get down to the business of zeroing the scope...
@ Wingman... I went for the 30-06 because eventually, next year maybe, I want to go hunting with my in-laws up north. Their living-rooms are full of heads from deer, bear, boar and yes, elk. Originally I was thinking on the .300 winchester but after I tried it I realized that it is not a rifle caliber but rather an artillery cannon. So I settled down to the 30-06. I feel it's recoil very manageable... tho I haven't videotaped myself to see how funny I look "managing" it.
PS: I guess is easier to understand if I just tell you that I was trying to sight the rifle like the guy in this video:
Sight In Your Rifle in Two Shots - NSSF Shooting Sportscast
PS: I guess is easier to understand if I just tell you that I was trying to sight the rifle like the guy in this video:
Sight In Your Rifle in Two Shots - NSSF Shooting Sportscast
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You're on paper, so you're not in that bad of shape.
Like others have said, a solid rest is a must. Rolled up beach towels... whatever. Focus on your breathing; best time to take a shot is after a long deep breath, halfway exhaled (for me anyway). Don't clinch up on the rifle; 30-06 recoil isn't light, but it isn't huge either. Just make sure that it's nested in the shoulder, moderate pressure. If you see pulse moving the crosshairs relative to the target... that's too much. loosen up. Your trigger hand's grip is pretty light.. Most important part is trigger control. I recommend becoming familiar with how your trigger feels with some dry fire practice. Check that your rifle's empty. Then check that your rifle's empty. Just in case, check that your rifle's empty. Get comfortable behind the rifle and create a virtual target somewhere. Mine is on the bottom of the bathroom door at the end of my hallway.
You won't be doing any harm to the firing pin by dry firing. If there's a doubt, go track down a few snap caps (dummy rounds, plastic usually). Learn how that rifle feels, get used to it. Most importantly, don't anticipate the trigger break. Don't pull the trigger. That's anticipating it. Slowly build pressure on the pad of the index finger against the trigger. Eventually, that trigger break will surprise you a bit. Practice doing that while keeping your crosshairs on your virtual target.
Next time you go to the range; you'll have developed some memory on what feels right. Take your time shooting a three shot group, @ 100 yards. Your scopes adjustments are tuned for 100 yards, i.e. "1 click = 1/4" @ 100 yards". If your target has a 1" grid pattern (see my siggy), you'll only have to adjust once. Distance from the center of your group to the bull.
Then you'll get to burn all your time trying different ammo, seeing what that howa likes. After a bit of practice, you'll know when your rifle doesn't like what you're feeding it. Groups will go to poop.
Take your time and have fun doing it, Ruben.
Like others have said, a solid rest is a must. Rolled up beach towels... whatever. Focus on your breathing; best time to take a shot is after a long deep breath, halfway exhaled (for me anyway). Don't clinch up on the rifle; 30-06 recoil isn't light, but it isn't huge either. Just make sure that it's nested in the shoulder, moderate pressure. If you see pulse moving the crosshairs relative to the target... that's too much. loosen up. Your trigger hand's grip is pretty light.. Most important part is trigger control. I recommend becoming familiar with how your trigger feels with some dry fire practice. Check that your rifle's empty. Then check that your rifle's empty. Just in case, check that your rifle's empty. Get comfortable behind the rifle and create a virtual target somewhere. Mine is on the bottom of the bathroom door at the end of my hallway.
You won't be doing any harm to the firing pin by dry firing. If there's a doubt, go track down a few snap caps (dummy rounds, plastic usually). Learn how that rifle feels, get used to it. Most importantly, don't anticipate the trigger break. Don't pull the trigger. That's anticipating it. Slowly build pressure on the pad of the index finger against the trigger. Eventually, that trigger break will surprise you a bit. Practice doing that while keeping your crosshairs on your virtual target. Next time you go to the range; you'll have developed some memory on what feels right. Take your time shooting a three shot group, @ 100 yards. Your scopes adjustments are tuned for 100 yards, i.e. "1 click = 1/4" @ 100 yards". If your target has a 1" grid pattern (see my siggy), you'll only have to adjust once. Distance from the center of your group to the bull.
Then you'll get to burn all your time trying different ammo, seeing what that howa likes. After a bit of practice, you'll know when your rifle doesn't like what you're feeding it. Groups will go to poop.
Take your time and have fun doing it, Ruben.
thedaddycat
New member
Dave, when I go to the range I usually take 5 or 6 rifles to play with. I have always used iron sights except for my 10/22 but I'm getting to where I need a scope. When I do go with optics I will probably shoot a string then put a few through the 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser, 7mm Mauser, maybe the .30-30, .30-40 Krag, M-17 Enfield and .303 British Enfield. Can you tell that I have a thing for old military rifles? At this point I can hardly make out the tiny rear notch on the Mausers but that's OK.
After a couple of rifles I will walk down and check targets, maybe tape holes or put up new targets, walk back and maybe puff on my cigar a bit. By then the first rifle has had a chance to cool off. If I go through each of them twice in an hour I'm doing pretty well.
Back in my hunting days I made shots on deer at 175 yards or so with the Swedish Mauser. That's just not going to happen any more. The minimum elevation on that one is 300 meters as I recall, and if you run it up the ladder it has a maximum of 2100 meters. Then again, you have to remember that this rifle was made back when the world's armies were still horseback mounted cavalry and the infantry would volley fire and more or less "lob" rounds in at massed troop formations.
After a couple of rifles I will walk down and check targets, maybe tape holes or put up new targets, walk back and maybe puff on my cigar a bit. By then the first rifle has had a chance to cool off. If I go through each of them twice in an hour I'm doing pretty well.
Back in my hunting days I made shots on deer at 175 yards or so with the Swedish Mauser. That's just not going to happen any more. The minimum elevation on that one is 300 meters as I recall, and if you run it up the ladder it has a maximum of 2100 meters. Then again, you have to remember that this rifle was made back when the world's armies were still horseback mounted cavalry and the infantry would volley fire and more or less "lob" rounds in at massed troop formations.
plumbernater
New member
Those swedish mauser are nice . Ihave a carl gustaf in that 6.5 and she is flat shooting. Doing some research and seeing great things about the round. Like you Im having a hard time with the tiny notch in the rear site. Having to wear reading glasses now . see out there good its the close stuff
Colorado Redneck
New member
New shooters/old shooters/any shooter
A steady diet of a large caliber rifle is pretty apt to make most of us flinch. Some folks are made of steel, but I know for sure that about 15 rounds from the bench with a 270 will get me to jerking and jumping. Sometimes it isn't even obvious to me. Then I forget to take it off safety and squeeze the trigger and flinch like a horse kicked me. Ah yes.
Shooting from the bench is harder on a person than shooting off hand or off a set of sticks. You generally get all set and are less "flexible" than shooting other ways, so the full recoil is absorbed by your shoulder.
I read an article one time written by a bench rest shooter. He said that every so often he would buy a couple of bricks of 22 LR and shoot them up over a week or so, and lay off the centerfire stuff. That way, the routine of proper shooting was reviewed and practiced over and over.
Once a flinch sets in, I have to work really hard to overcome it. If I continue shooting the 270 off the bench it NEVER gets better. If I shoot something smaller for a few rounds and work really hard to perform each shot correctly, the flinch will go away.
If you have a few months you will be fine. Lots of good advice above. Don't get discouraged. It is a bit challenging but that is part of the fun.
A steady diet of a large caliber rifle is pretty apt to make most of us flinch. Some folks are made of steel, but I know for sure that about 15 rounds from the bench with a 270 will get me to jerking and jumping. Sometimes it isn't even obvious to me. Then I forget to take it off safety and squeeze the trigger and flinch like a horse kicked me. Ah yes.
Shooting from the bench is harder on a person than shooting off hand or off a set of sticks. You generally get all set and are less "flexible" than shooting other ways, so the full recoil is absorbed by your shoulder.
I read an article one time written by a bench rest shooter. He said that every so often he would buy a couple of bricks of 22 LR and shoot them up over a week or so, and lay off the centerfire stuff. That way, the routine of proper shooting was reviewed and practiced over and over.
Once a flinch sets in, I have to work really hard to overcome it. If I continue shooting the 270 off the bench it NEVER gets better. If I shoot something smaller for a few rounds and work really hard to perform each shot correctly, the flinch will go away.
If you have a few months you will be fine. Lots of good advice above. Don't get discouraged. It is a bit challenging but that is part of the fun.
Firstly go back to fundamentals, breath, calm yourself down, and take your time. If you know you've followed through properly with technique, you can start eliminating the possibility of the error being you. When i say calm down, i mean that only if you have a adrenaline rush, as i do. Without being behind the rifle in months it shows on me, and i start shaking, heart rate shoots up, and i think entirely too much. It's taken me 3 days to get back to normal rhythm or semi normal. Also don't alter the position of the rifle when shouldered, having the rifle pointed at it's natural POI (the target when sighting in) is crucial. If you find yourself muscling the rifle into position so to speak, don't.
Also cheek weld needs to be consistent as does trigger pull. Accuracy and precision shooting to a large part is consistency. How many times can you repeat the same fundamentals, the same way, will reflect on groups. Several times i'll be shooting a 5 shot group, stack 4, then slow my trigger pull on the fifth and the shot will be a little off. It's also me putting pressure on myself to maintain a good group but you get the idea. Main thing is time behind the rifle, it's crucial. When you know the ends and outs of a certain rifle it makes the world of difference in how you shoot it IMO.
Also cheek weld needs to be consistent as does trigger pull. Accuracy and precision shooting to a large part is consistency. How many times can you repeat the same fundamentals, the same way, will reflect on groups. Several times i'll be shooting a 5 shot group, stack 4, then slow my trigger pull on the fifth and the shot will be a little off. It's also me putting pressure on myself to maintain a good group but you get the idea. Main thing is time behind the rifle, it's crucial. When you know the ends and outs of a certain rifle it makes the world of difference in how you shoot it IMO.
warbirdlover
New member
Has anyone heard of running a machine (or shooting a rifle) using "statistics". I used to teach it. In nature everything will form a "normal curve" if LEFT ALONE. If a machinist keeps adjusting his size based on every measurement it actually increases the spread he would get if he left it alone! This holds true with shooting and scope adjustment. There are tolerances that have to be held to allow the bolt to function etc and these will keep the bullets from all going in the same hole (assuming you are shooting perfectly). After you have zeroed in near the bull, shoot a group without touching the sight settings! If you're all over the place, check the scope, mounts or whatever or learn to shoot better (using sandbags or a solid rest). My two cents.... 
I get a kick out of the guys at the range trying to sight in a bolt action rifle by firing it and adjusting the scope. Half the time, they're not even on the paper.
Why not just lock down the rifle in the rest, take the bolt out, align the barrel and chamber with the bull, then while locked down and holding on the bull, adjust your reticle to the center of the bull. That'll at least get you in the general area of the bull and able to use the 2 shot solution from there.
Bill
Why not just lock down the rifle in the rest, take the bolt out, align the barrel and chamber with the bull, then while locked down and holding on the bull, adjust your reticle to the center of the bull. That'll at least get you in the general area of the bull and able to use the 2 shot solution from there.Bill
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I'm pretty good at boresighting by removing the bolt and eye-balling some sort of identifiable object out at a fair distance and adjusting the scope. This is easy to do with some books and maybe a towel on the dining room table, aiming out a window. A car window, maybe, or a transformer on a light pole.
I then start at 25 yards and by shooting one shot at a time, get dead-zero. Usually takes no more than three or four shots. That gets me on the paper at 100 yards, and with a scoped '06 is commonly about three inches high and within a couple of inches, horizontally...
No big deal.
I then start at 25 yards and by shooting one shot at a time, get dead-zero. Usually takes no more than three or four shots. That gets me on the paper at 100 yards, and with a scoped '06 is commonly about three inches high and within a couple of inches, horizontally...
No big deal.
Like Art said, I get a real good and tight 25 yd zero and the 100yd zero is really just for verification but it will be high an inch or two.
Usually, I 25yd zero then start shooting for fun with maybe some fine tuning in there. After a good zero, you shouldn't need to mess with it no more.
Usually, I 25yd zero then start shooting for fun with maybe some fine tuning in there. After a good zero, you shouldn't need to mess with it no more.
Lots of great advice
Keep working, it will come. I have that same scope on my Howa 1500 in 22-250 and while it is not the best scope ever, it is not bad either. The Howa 1500 is a good platform and you should be able to get 1-1.5" groups once you settle in.
Another trick for quick siting in is to use a gun vise. Make sure the gun is nice and sturdy in the vise and POA is dead center. Try not to move the gun and fire a shot. After recoil, get the gun back in the same position and while you stay on the gun looking through the scope, have some adjust the crosshairs to where your shot went. Make sure not to move the gun during this process. Now your POA is the same as POI. The next shot, assuming you now move the gun so the crosshairs are on the target should be dead center.
Keep working, it will come. I have that same scope on my Howa 1500 in 22-250 and while it is not the best scope ever, it is not bad either. The Howa 1500 is a good platform and you should be able to get 1-1.5" groups once you settle in.
Another trick for quick siting in is to use a gun vise. Make sure the gun is nice and sturdy in the vise and POA is dead center. Try not to move the gun and fire a shot. After recoil, get the gun back in the same position and while you stay on the gun looking through the scope, have some adjust the crosshairs to where your shot went. Make sure not to move the gun during this process. Now your POA is the same as POI. The next shot, assuming you now move the gun so the crosshairs are on the target should be dead center.
Getting a little OT, but the easiest way I've found to get on paper -especially with semi-autos like the AR and Mini that you can't boresight- is to just throw something up on the berm (our range usually has a couple of bowling pins lying around, but last week it was a McDonald's soda cup outta the trash!), and have a spotter just walk you in. Even if you're two or three feet off target, you can't miss the hits in the dirt berm.
Somebody needs a good coach. A bit of training.
Check out the CMP GSM Clinics, NRA Rifle Courses, Appleseed or something.
But reading your post, seeing your targets, just screams COACH to me.
Might be the rifle, scope, shooter, or combination, a coach will help you figure it out.
Check out the CMP GSM Clinics, NRA Rifle Courses, Appleseed or something.
But reading your post, seeing your targets, just screams COACH to me.
Might be the rifle, scope, shooter, or combination, a coach will help you figure it out.
Here is something no one else has mentioned yet, and I am suprised.
Have you tried shooting different ammo in your gun? Or is it all been one brand so far? I have a .270 and it was/is my first rifle. I figured "I'll buy the best most expensive bullets, they've got to shoot the best." For me this "best" was Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silver Tip. Something like $50/box of 20.
Well, my gun shoots them like total crap. It LOVES Remington Core-Lokt 130gr and 150 gr. I do recommend shooting 3-5 shots to get an idea of where you are at. VERY VERY few guns will make the "one ragged hole" you hear about over 3 rounds at 100 yards. It's a myth, like unicorns.
So, shoot 3 shot groups, 3 times with one type of ammo. Allow some cool down between each shot for best results. Using the same point of aim every time is critical. I recommend using a target that has numbers in the scoring zones and aim the corner of the "7" this gives you very good results in the "aim small miss small" category.
Here is my example. First target is 5 shot groups, once each type of ammo. Second target is 3 shot groups, my shoulder was hating me. The ones that group the best are so obvious. I spent maybe 4 hours at the range that day but man did I learn alot.
Have you tried shooting different ammo in your gun? Or is it all been one brand so far? I have a .270 and it was/is my first rifle. I figured "I'll buy the best most expensive bullets, they've got to shoot the best." For me this "best" was Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silver Tip. Something like $50/box of 20.
Well, my gun shoots them like total crap. It LOVES Remington Core-Lokt 130gr and 150 gr. I do recommend shooting 3-5 shots to get an idea of where you are at. VERY VERY few guns will make the "one ragged hole" you hear about over 3 rounds at 100 yards. It's a myth, like unicorns.
So, shoot 3 shot groups, 3 times with one type of ammo. Allow some cool down between each shot for best results. Using the same point of aim every time is critical. I recommend using a target that has numbers in the scoring zones and aim the corner of the "7" this gives you very good results in the "aim small miss small" category.
Here is my example. First target is 5 shot groups, once each type of ammo. Second target is 3 shot groups, my shoulder was hating me. The ones that group the best are so obvious. I spent maybe 4 hours at the range that day but man did I learn alot.