First gun, for protection?

Q:

Also, I don't want any accidents when I reach into my handbag. How do you carry a firearm without a safety while guarding against mishaps?
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A: With modern Revolvers the safety is inside- it's called a "transfer bar" and will not allow the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled. Putting your carry gun into a "pocket holster" inside your purse, or buying a CCW purse would prevent anything from getting inside the trigger guard and contacting the trigger. Revolvers , especially small CCW revolvers, have a long, relatively heavy trigger pull.

Carrying a gun in a pocket or or purse without a pocket holster is a recipe for a negligent discharge, IMO.

I also don't think carrying a gun in your purse is a good idea- your purse is going to be target for muggers. I would think that it would be hard to draw a gun out of a purse you are struggling for possesion of.... but if your situational awareness is good, you'll have a grip on the gun as soon a things look a bit hinky.

Xfire said-
Personally I feel if your not going to practice and shoot it on a regular basis then don't even bother getting one.

If you can't use it proficiently and safely then it's not something you should even consider.

You should budget in the expense of the gun money to practice and even a training course. If you can't afford to shoot it then it's not going to be much use to you if you ever needed it!
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I think you are letting "perfect" be the enemy of "good enough", Xfire.

Rule #1 in a fight is "Have a gun."
 
First Gun......

Go with the Taurus Judge. It's chambered for 45 Long Colt. They are easy to shoot and carry a lot of lead, 225 to 250 grains worth . You can also load these with 410 shot shells which make it even easier if you aim isn't quite polished yet!
The gun itself is a five shot and can be had with a 2 inch barrel or a three incher and with a 2 1/2 or 3 inch cylinder. I'd go with the three incher for more accuracy. These are nice beefy guns too that will stand-up to a lot of shooting.
They start in the high 400's up to the mid 500's in $$. Good Luck !
 
Unfortunately/fortunately I live in Kalifornia as well and unless you live in one of a couple obscure counties you will never get a CCW permit. You will need a "Handgun Card" to buy the handgun. As for caliber all guns will shoot through walls so you really can't worry about that. Your original instincts are solid - snub nose .38 Special. What you need to consider are "lines of fire" - simply put - what is behind the direction you are shooting. In an apartment setting there are a limited number of safe lines of fire - possibly none- so you want to hit your target. Practice, practice, practice
 
EDIT: Oh, and I live in California, in the Bay Area. Any knowledge about permits, or resources in the area are welcome!
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I live in California. So, if you want to buy a new handgun it has too be one on the approved gun list. Here is a link: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
I agree with others that a revolver is the best choice. Smith & Wesson, Ruger and others all have approved guns on the list I just gave you. You can buy a used handgun that is not approved but only as a private party transfer or a gun on consignment at a gun shop or pawn shop. I would not buy any revolver that has less than a 3 inch barrel. If I were you, I would go to a range and rent as many as I can and try them. Also, most ranges will want you to have another person with you. Most ranges do offer basic training on the use of handguns. Before you can buy a handgun in California you have too pass a test on gun handling. Its a 25 question test. Mostly a common sense test. If you pass, you will get a handgun handling permit. Most gun shops can do that for you.
I did not suggest any one gun. That is your decision. Remember to be safe and follow good gun handling procedures.
Howard
 
For a starter gun I'd suggest that the gun which is easier to shoot would be a better choice. You are more likely to spend time practicing with a gun that won't make your hand numb after shooting five rounds.

A .38 snubbie is as good a choice for concealed carry. But there are snubbies and then there are snubbies. You can get a 12oz S&W 340 or a short barreled Ruger GP 100 that weighs three times that.

Just in case you didn't know, .38 specials ammo can be shot out of .357 revolvers. So don't limit your search to only revolvers chambered in .38.
Both of the guns I mentioned are .357s.

Take your time. Rent guns and try them out for size. Take some basic firearms classes and then you'll have a better idea of what will fit your needs.

There is a sticky post in the revolver forum that tells you the basics for buying a used revolver.
A used S&W K frame is still a good buy.
 
jmortimer: I suppose Contra Costa County is not on the list of easier counties to get a CCW in? Darn.

Failing that, then.... what personal defense items are best to carry with?
 
Maxine, you will learn in class that the biggest safety is between your ears, your revolver no matter what flavor you buy and no matter what caliber or what action will not be firing unless you put your finger on the trigger. Marksmanship is key to coming out on the surviving side of any hostile encounter so like it or not you will need to practice. 38 spcl is a good idea and snap caps is a great idea and wadcutters will help alleviate the thin wall problem. I would prefer a 4" barrel for the ease of shooting but let me suggest a Taurus 85. It is a 3" barreled revolver with only 5 rounds but the gun will be light. It has fixed sights but at self defense ranges that won't be a problem and for a concealed carry gun is an advantage because less can go wrong with it and it will be more snag free. The S&W 686 also has a 3" barrel and can shoot 357 mag or 38 spcl but it will be heavier. Good for shooting but a bigger load to carry. Get a good concealed carry holster and change your wardrobe if you need to, purse carry is a good way to not have your gun when you most need it. Then practice drawing from the concealed position with snap caps in your gun till it is second nature to you. Don't try and fast draw, you will just get hung up and frustrated. Practice in slow motion and speed will come with repetition. It will come a lot faster than if you try speed draws from the get go. Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur.
 
Smith .38 100%.

You may not be a gun enthusiast, but if you need to practice, so as to know your arm if you need be. If going to CCW, even more so.
 
If you don't live in a location that allows you to be a self reliant, resonsible citizen, you can always vote with your feet! Nebraska doesn't have California Weather, but we don't have earthquakes either. Our economy is not in a shambles, and niether is the State checkbook.

Or you can work to change your local government....

Try to get a CCW permit- you might find that you can get one. If you are denied, then you have a political target come election time!

Failing that, then.... what personal defense items are best to carry with?
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I'm guessin' they'd frown on any weapon carried concealed for personal defense.
 
Welcome to the Firing Line, Maxine.

It's good to know that you've found a place to get some lessons. Those will go a long way to both teaching you to handle your guns safely, and getting you comfortable with it. As others have noted, you will need to practice. A "Close Encounter" is not the time to be learning new techniques.
 
I'm hearing you. I'll need to practice.

Although, if I can't carry, I'm not sure I need one anyway. I mostly feel unsafe on the street at night. That's where I feel like I need protection the most. =/ I don't know about home invasions, if I need to worry about that. I'll have to think about it.

EDIT: jimbob86 Faults or no, I'd never leave California. It's home. :)
 
How About.....

The 44 special snubbie is a thought too. It shoots a bigger bullet, but kicks like a 38 special ! If it has the same kick but double the knockdown power, it makes sense. S&W makes one as well as Charter Arms and Taurus has a model that's discontinued that you may possibly find used for about $269.00 ?
If you can go to a range and try a few guns out, that would be your best bet.
All in all it comes down to what you like. You may end up with a 1911 45acp !! :D
 
Try as many as you can.

I was originally looking at a Taurus model 85 myself. However, after trying snub noses of different sizes I started to really like the Taurus Models 617 and 817. They are chambered in .357magnum and .38spl respectively. They are a little tall and wide for pocket carry. However, they hold seven rounds and still weigh in at between 21 and 28ozs.

Besides the extra capacity the big thing for me was the grips. With the 617 and 817 there is actually room for your pinky. That might help with the recoil factor.

If yo look around the 617 and 817 can be had for less than $400. I have seen one used 817 for $315 at a pawn shop.
 
New gun owner, shooter, gun laws, NRA...

Maxine;
You will get a lot of posts or remarks related to handguns, ammunition, tactics, etc.
Because of a number of factors(local-state laws in your area, your size/health/strength, your budget, your skill or training level, etc) it's hard to say exactly what handgun or weapon would be best for you.
If you honestly do not have the time, $$$ or resources to train/practice with a handgun, I'd avoid buying or carrying one. Firearms are not toys, props or accessories. You need to learn how to properly carry & shoot a handgun and be able to justify your actions in court or to law enforcement. This is a complex, evolved process that will require time & effort. The gun shop rangers & mall ninjas won't be there when you have a real use of force incident.
If you still feel you can buy & carry a loaded firearm, I'd suggest renting a few different DA(double action) or even better DA only(can only be fired by pulling the trigger with no cocking of the hammer). If you have the hand strength, I would buy a new Ruger SP101 DA only .357magnum, a Ruger LCR revolver in .38spl, a S&W model 686+ with a 3" barrel or a good condition used Ruger or S&W police trade-in DA only .38spl stainless revolver. Law enforcement trade-ins are rare in 2010 but you may find a few online around $225-400.00USD, www.GunsAmerica.com www.JGSales.com . A decent, factory made .38spl +P or +P+ round will protect you.
Take the best skill training or tactics/use of force training you can afford. For more details get Massad Ayoob's non fiction books; In The Gravest Extreme or Stressfire. Other good books and training DVD videos are listed here; www.Gunvideo.com www.palidinpress.com . Lenny Magill has some great entry level/firearms training videos that go in depth. As for firearms concealment or holsters, I'd suggest a pocket holster like the Desantis Super Fly or Nemnesis for small frame .38spl revolvers. Use a shoulder holster or a well made belt holster for larger handguns. ALWAYS carry firearms on your person! Avoid the purses, fanny packs, cases, etc. Real, violent encounters will be fast & stressful. You could lose your weapon or be unable to draw it quickly if it's not close by on your hip, shoulder or pocket.
I'll close by saying you should join the NRA, www.NRA.org , even if you are not a "big" gun fan, the NRA does a lot to protect gun owners and maintain + gun laws in many places nationwide. Learn your area's use of force & gun laws too; www.handgunlaws.us . It's important to follow or comply with your local laws. I'd suggest obtaining a carry license or concealed permit even if you do not plan to wear it a lot. A license will document your training and validate the fact that you wanted to follow the law or act in a mature, adult way concerning firearms & ammunition.

Clyde
 
Take a self-defense/personal protection class. A good one will tell you that you need 3 things to protect yourself: Mindset, Skills, and Hardware.

A gun is simply a tool (though it is the best tool for the job of personal protection, in most cases). Without the mindset and skills to use it, it isn't good for much. The correct mindset and situational awareness will keep you out of most bad situations: criminals are looking for folks wandering through life in Condition White (unaware of what is going on around them). They will avoid victims that are paying attention and act confidently.

If you can't carry a gun, pepper spray (though it has it's limitations) beats happy thoughts, a sturdy pen beats harsh words, and even harsh words beat "Please don't kill me!" delivered from the fetal position.
 
Two pages and nobody said it yet? Slackers.

Go to corneredcat.com and read a little bit.

The DA trigger on a revolver is pretty heavy it doesn't need a manual safety. Keeping your finger off the trigger is all you need. Don't just let it flop
around in your purse. If you insist on carrying off-body get a purse designed for it.

Another question to ask yourself before carrying a gun is pretty serious.
Could you kill another human being? You don't give warning shots or shoot to injury. You have to be willing and able to take the life of another person. If you pull a gun and hesitate, expect to get shot by your own gun.

Visit the cornered cat website. I think it will help you. Good luck.
 
Corneredcat.com, real selections-choices..

I was going to bring up CorneredCat.com but I didn't want to bombard the member with information.
The more thought I put towards it, the more I think "Maxine" should just get a well made OC gel or pepper spray(the fog or gel type not foam or stream). A EDW or C2 type Taser, www.Taser.com can help but like a firearm, has carry/deployment requirements. If she rents or shoots a few protection type firearms and wants to go that route, so be it, but a non-lethal weapon would be a better starting point than a .38spl or .357 revolver that sits in a gun case unused in 6mo or a year.

CF
 
Maxine, I was a resident of California for 48 years. Unfortunately you will not get a CCW in Contra Costa county. Because of this it would probably be better for you to get the larger 4" barrel revolver, and I'd recommend either a used S&W or Ruger .357 (used with .38 spec. ammo) for your home. The larger gun will have less felt recoil due to it's weight and will be easier to control. Because it's a .357mag it will also be more robust and should last your lifetime.

If you buy a used Taurus you should make sure it's checked out by a competent gunsmith, they are hit and miss with timing problems.

This link will give you an idea about your ability to get a CCW in your county.
 
Two pages and nobody said it yet? Slackers.

Go to corneredcat.com and read a little bit.

The DA trigger on a revolver is pretty heavy it doesn't need a manual safety. Keeping your finger off the trigger is all you need. Don't just let it flop
around in your purse. If you insist on carrying off-body get a purse designed for it.

Another question to ask yourself before carrying a gun is pretty serious.
Could you kill another human being? You don't give warning shots or shoot to injury. You have to be willing and able to take the life of another person. If you pull a gun and hesitate, expect to get shot by your own gun.

Visit the cornered cat website. I think it will help you. Good luck.
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You must have missed post #5. ;)
 
Good to hear you are taking classes, there is more to being effective with a hand gun that buying one. Also, for most non gun people a revolver is the way to go as they are simple and intuitive to use.

Some things to consider:

How good is your hand strength?

Can your hands take impacts without damage?

Are you a machine / mechanical type person?

A light weight gun has greater recoil and can hurt you. A SW 340 PD ( J frame series made from aluminum and titanium ) that weighs 12 Oz is probably the _WORST_ gun for a new to shooting person to buy. I've seen someone struggle with then sell such a gun first hand.

The heavier SW 640 ( J frame series again ) in stainless steel would have better recoil resistance. As would a Ruger SP101 which is just a bit heavier. Ruger now makes a "lighter than a SP101 but heavier than a LCR 38" steel bodied LCR .357. As a side note, you can fire .38 in a .357 but not the other way around. A .357 cartridge is much more powerful ( about 2X the powder load ) than the completely adequit .38. This makes the LCR .357 shooting .38 a good alternative to a "too light I can't stand to shoot" gun.

Given you are a non gun person, buy something in stainless steel as the blued guns need constant cleaning to prevent rust.

A automatic adds another layer of complexity for the non gun person and should be avoided if possible. Since you are going to do some classes and range rentals, at least handle and possibly fire one just so you know how should the need arise. They do make .22LR automatics. so no need to rent something larger with more recoil / expensive ammo. .22 ammo is in the least expensive ammo / lowest recoil out there.

Lastly, when you do go to a rental range, try a .22 revolver first mostly due to it's low recoil and cheap ammo. Something in the 4 to 6" barrel range is OK. This type of gun will acclimatize you to having something exploding in your hand, aiming and general gun handling. You then can move onto a .38 in the same length then to a 2" snub .38.

As for what brand to buy, everyone will have their opinions.

The SW is considered a top line gun where a lot of the $ goes into polishing and the name.

The Ruger a sturdy but, not as visually detailed working mans gun. ( Although the LCR is a new generation Ruger with very good detailing)

And a Taurus a less expensive but servicable import.
 
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