First encounter with police since permit issue

I was responding to Dave P's statement. I never said you have to volunteer anything.
I said, if a LEO asks you for your DL and you are packing, FLorida law requires that you give him/her both your DL and you CCW permit...
 
BILLtheDJguy said:
I was responding to Dave P's statement. I never said you have to volunteer anything.
I said, if a LEO asks you for your DL and you are packing, FLorida law requires that you give him/her both your DL and you CCW permit...
The way I read that it sounds like if an officer asks for your CCW permit, you also have to give your DL. Not the other way around, where if the officer asks for the DL, you have to give CCW permit too.
 
Al, I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but why are the numbers of cops killed accidentally at the scene, in most years, higher than killed by BG's?
 
Al, I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but why are the numbers of cops killed accidentally at the scene, in most years, higher than killed by BG's?

Police officers are sometimes hit by moving vehicles while they are conducting a traffic stop (which is the scene). This is why you frequently see police cars parked closer to the white line than the car they pulled over, because it provides a type of shield should a driver be veering too close to the shoulder.
 
I'm citing knowledge obtained from my very good friend who is a certified firearms/concealed weapons instructor, as well as a former MP and LEO for a combined 16 years. He currently owns a local gun shop.
It was his recommendation to act accordingly regarding this situation.
If it is required, I'll get him to clarify his instruction, and perhaps even offer statute and/or case law to support this.
I'll see him in the morning.
 
All of this is really a moot point, as the OP's incident occured in WV.
But if it will make everyone happier, I'll start a new thread after obtaining the facts.
 
So as not to detract from this thread, Bill, that would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jeremiah? Sefner has it exactly correct. If you were to go and look at the UCR, you would find the majority of officer related accidental fatalities to be vehicle accidents.
 
Location and time of day were big factors. Dept policy too may allow this extreme procedure. Attitudes about handguns vary by region and whether location is urban or rural. The deep south and southwest are gun friendly in rural areas but slightly less so in the urban setting.

I seem to remember that WV gun laws in the distant past did not favor handgun ownership. Is this correct?
 
Sounds like NJ. A friend who works at a business and often has to carry cash got stopped on the Turnpike. The trooper unloaded the gun then proceeded to unload the magazine, and gave it back only in the end got in his car and left and ordered the guy to wait for him to leave before he reloaded. :D

Hey can't blame them too much, you have no idea what they been through. Safer that way for everyone involved. You don't want a nervous cop having an AD anywhere near you, neither do you want him getting killed by some permit carrying first time criminal. Imagine if he didn't dissarm you, he is nervous and some car nearby backfires. :eek:
 
Location and time of day were big factors. Dept policy too may allow this extreme procedure.

Department policy is not law. Department policies should govern the officers code of conduct, not allow a special interpretation of the law during different hours of the day.
 
Sounds like NJ. A friend who works at a business and often has to carry cash got stopped on the Turnpike. The trooper unloaded the gun then proceeded to unload the magazine, and gave it back only in the end got in his car and left and ordered the guy to wait for him to leave before he reloaded.

Wait, you know someone with a carry permit in New Jersey?!?!

He must be one very special and connected individual. Carry permits are unheard of here, to the point of "No Issue" status.
 
QUOTE:
When I came on the Police Force in 1969,you almost never heard of a Cop being killed by someone in the line of duty.Jump fast forward to now and hundreds of Cops are being killed and millions assaulted.
Call me crazy, but I think if this trend stopped,before long,cops would calm down and what they would be trained in the Academy would reflect the new trend.Sorry folks you can't have millions of Sheriff Andy Taylors roaming around the way things are today.

Agreed. Conversly, we can't have peace officers running around violating our constitutional rights, performing unlawful activities either becuase they are afraid for their lives. I respect and appreciate the fact that officers put their lives on the line every day, However, that's no excuse to be violating others rights and freedoms - those that officers swore to protect and defend. The thought of officers abusing their power is more scary to me than any criminal. Those that carry, are prepared to defend from criminals but there's no defense for an officer whose unlawfully harrassing a peaceful citizen. You are powerless.

To the OP file a complaint, document, everything, and followup until there is resolution. Respect is a 2-way street.
 
Ditto jwalker497

I respect the profession and most of the officers that I've had the privilege to get to know. Those who would abuse you rights, while wearing the uniform of our protectors and guardians, are a bigger threat to our society than the common thug on the street. The law enforcement community deserves our support, but they need to "police" their own ranks for anyone crossing the line. To loosely paraphrase a old Ben Franklin adage " Those who are willing to give up their rights in order to feel more secure deserves neither".
 
May I make the suggestion that you consider this incident as a learning experience and also a catalyst to thoroughly research your rights as a private citizen so that you might better use them to your advantage. When the officer approached you and asked what you were doing, you were not obligated to answer. A polite response may have been, "my attorney advised me not to answer such personal questions." The police have every right to approach you, ask questions, and use any information you generously provide against you. If you don't know your rights, you won't know when to assert your rights, when you're willingly relinquishing those rights, or even when those rights have been violated. Might I suggest purchasing a copy of the good book "You And The Police" for yourself and everyone with you in the car that night.
 
First thing's first. Technically, what the police officers did as far as checking your identifications and searching you and your car was legal. The reason it was legal is because you MADE it legal by failing to refuse to be identified and also failing to refuse being searched. Your silence - or, more appropriately your acquiescence - makes the search legal.

You have to assert your rights! What would have happened if, say, your brother had some weed on him that he was taking with him and didn't tell you about? If the car had a previous owner, what if in some forgotten nook or cranny, something illegal had been there? You, your girlfriend and your brother would all be in danger of being arrested and charged with a crime, even if you didn't commit one. You also need to understand that police can make mistakes OR they can just do bad things. It is very possible that you could be charged, tried and convinced of a crime with little or no inculpatory evidence.

When the police come up to you (doesn't matter if you're in your car, walking down the street, whatever) they CAN ask for your ID, but you also CAN refuse to be identified. At that point, one of two things happen. Either you get detained or you are free to go. The only reason they can detain you is if there is a reasonable suspicion that you are involved in some sort of illegal activity, based on some sort of clearly articulable evidence, at which point you must identify yourself if you are being lawfully detained. But refusing do be identified can't really hurt you because if they DO detain you, they were probably going to do it anyway. The best thing to do is to ask the following: "Officer are you detaining me/us, or am I/we free to go?"

At that point, if there is no reasonable suspicion which gives them probable cause, and after asking the above question they do not detain you, you can safely feel free to completely ignore, walk away from or shut the door on them if they do not detain you. Keep in mind it is always best to be polite.

Secondly, if you ever have to get out of your car, SHUT THE DOOR BEHIND YOU. An open door gives him/her a look inside your car, and the "in plain sight rule comes more into effect. Also an open door is pretty much an open invitation to search your car if you do not tell them that they may not search your car.

Here is another important thing - If ever they ask for anything, it means they do not have any sort of probable cause. Even if they TELL you, they still may not have probably cause - police officers ARE allowed to lie in order to make arrests. If the officer already has probably cause to detain and search you, he or she will no matter what you say. In that case, they were trying to find something illegal, but couldn't. If you had simply told them that they were not allowed to search your vehicle, and they still did, it would have been an illegal search which violates your 4th Amendment rights.

Not to go off-subject, but this general rule of thumb applies to a lot of things. If an officer pulls you over for speeding and comes to your window and asks you if you know how fast you were going, ALWAYS say that you thought you were going the speed limit. The reason the officer is ASKING is because s/he is trying to get you to talk yourself into the ticket because they did not get you with a laser/radar gun, pace you or in some other way empirically measure your speed - they just eyeballed it.

What usually happens is, lets say you're going 60 in a 45. Officer pulls you over, and asks you if you know how fast you were going. Most people, thinking they will get off easy if they just say a lesser amount will say something like: "Yeah I think I was going about 50 or so." That is an admission of guilt, thus, you will get a ticket for going 5 over the limit, or whatever speed you SAID you were going.

Anyway, hope this helps, just in case something like this were to happen again, which I hope doesn't. And like just about everyone here is saying, I would absolutely complain about the way you were treated.
 
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