Firearms & Ammo for Church Security

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BarryLee

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In Georgia there is ongoing debate, civil action and possible legislation to allow carry of firearms in Churches. I had a discussion with some fellow Church members and someone mentioned that they would prefer the Church to organize a specially trained Security Team who were armed and then not allow the congregation as a whole to carry.

This discussion got me thinking and I have a very specific question. Please do not turn this into a debate about Church carry.

So, if you were specifying firearms and ammunition for use by a Security Team in a large (1000+) person assembly situation what would you select and why?
 
Does not answer your question but whatever the verdict is, I think tasers should be on the list as well.
 
I don't mean to take away from your question, but seriously, what goes on in your church that you need a security team? Also, I'd think for liability/insurance reasons hiring a bonded security contractor would be preferable if there were actually a need.
 
Great post and replies so far as our church has recently started this kind of dialog. Our older members think this is a shame and we all agree that it is coming to this. Going to keep a close eye on this one and once again, I thank you for your post. Might add that this is going beyond our churches. ..... ;)


Be Safe !!!
 
You can't shoot safely in a room with 1000 in it. OH, that's why a rampage killer chooses to shoot up such a room.

If you have a specified team - the guns are aren't as important as training. Any quality semi in 9, 40, 357 or 45 would be adequate - if they know what they are doing.

If it's just a bunch of guys who called themselves the 'team' - I'd rather have just carry allowed and everyone take care of themselves.

Teams need interactive training, communications, etc.

Too many times in the gun world - folks focus on the gun and ammo and not the brains that pull the trigger. It's more fun than talking about practice.
 
Any quality semi in 9, 40, 357 or 45 would be adequate - if they know what they are doing.
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+1. Any quality gun along with quality HP ammo is fine. The real issue is that if indeed you had armed security that those people were trained and knew how to respond to the situation at hand.
 
The same one I've been carrying-Keltec P11 and a horizontal shoulder rig. The P3AT is on the ankle.:cool: For those of you doubting the need, search out for headlines in The Charlotte Observer, Greensboro Daily News, or WRAL in Raleigh. Domestic violence fuels many of these incidents in easily accessed public forums. It's a shame, but it's the truth. The first step is in believing you need to be at church for some other reason.

-7-
 
Any security around large groups of people should simply conceder over penetration concerns as that is the only controllable difference via caliber and ammo selection.

I would go with Glock 17 or 19's in 9MM. The platform is simple, proven, and used by many professionals around the world.

Ammo would be CorBon 115 grain JHP because of their velocity and rapid expansion (which equals faster deceleration).

I would have at least a couple rifle armed security. The ar-15 platform would be my choice.

While it is a shame that the need to secure your congregation is upon us, I commend your flock for being prepared for anything.

It just seems like a bad idea to me. You can't safely shoot in a room with 1000 people in it.
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If someone is already killing church members then it becomes a necessity to stop the carnage even with that risk.


Bottom line is security members should train like air Marshal's do.
 
the guns are aren't as important as training. Any quality semi in 9, 40, 357 or 45 would be adequate - if they know what they are doing. . . .

Teams need interactive training, communications, etc.
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Everything else is just chit-chat. Decision making and coordination are the keys. I would think that each person would use the firearm that he or she is most comfortable with rather than carrying a church-issued duty weapon. That would produce better performance with less cost to the church. Buy the team members training and professional planning instead of new guns.
 
security team

The church I go to has hired a security team. They wear suits and ties and have the little earpiece with the squiggly wire going to them (not kidding!). No sunglasses though. Only the earpiece looks out of place on Sundays. I see them standing, walking down the hallways, standing around during service.

I recently heard them ask a gentleman to "Sir! check your hat" which meant to remove it. He was kind of surprised but not offended.

A downside to putting together your own team (like others have mentioned) is that it will take time, money, and training - if you feel that it's important to be comparable to a hired team. Will the team members be able to train enough yet hold their own full time jobs/personal lives? (not trying to dissuade, maybe they will) I guess if you all decide you'll just make do with what you have then there you go. But if you're REALLY concerned then there's always the option of hiring people.

oh yeah, let's add communication equipment (little earpieces anyone?), lots of cameras and a monitor room to the list.
 
The woman (former LEO) who took out the assassin at that mega-church out west a year or so ago used, IIRC, a 9mm semi-auto. The reports from the time were that she wounded the perp, which stopped his attack, but he died from a self-inflicted gunshot outside the building.

It ain't the gun or the ammo that's important. Unless you decide to mount multiple Ma Deuces in the sanctuary. The point at New Life was -- one of the "security team" had a chance to take the BG out but he froze, and did nothing. Ms. Assam, with no cover and no armor, advanced on the threat and opened fire when he refused to put down his weapons. She emptied one magazine -- 12 rounds. That's what stopped the attack -- tactics, not caliber.

Hmmm ... longer ago than I thought: December 2007! Her name is Jeanne Assam.
 
not a lawyer

In Georgia there is ongoing debate, civil action and possible legislation to allow carry of firearms in Churches. I had a discussion with some fellow Church members and someone mentioned that they would prefer the Church to organize a specially trained Security Team who were armed and then not allow the congregation as a whole to carry.
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Another fourm we where talking about is it legal to carry a gun in a Church, because the GFZ school. Is a Church deemed a "SCHOOL" because of sunday school you have Babys~12th grades in classes. I have no idea, I am not a lawyer. I would think it's not because, #1 no one is paid, #2 it's only on sunday mornings, #3 unless your church is running a K & up school during the week then I would see it as a "school" I do not know and I am not a lawyer.
 
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So, if you were specifying firearms and ammunition for use by a Security Team in a large (1000+) person assembly situation what would you select and why?
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In what ways is a church different from a crowded entertainment venue?

(That's a loaded question in today's church world. Ideally things happen there (preaching of the Word and administration of the sacraments) that don't happen anywhere else. Practically, many places, a church service simply is a crowded entertainment venue.)

I recently heard them ask a gentleman to "Sir! check your hat" which meant to remove it. He was kind of surprised but not offended.
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That's over the top.
 
Air Marshalls choose the 357 sig for crowded airplanes. 357 sig has more penetration then most other defensive calibers. Go figure.
 
I
don't mean to take away from your question, but seriously, what goes on in your church that you need a security team? Also, I'd think for liability/insurance reasons hiring a bonded security contractor would be preferable if there were actually a need
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I suggest you do a search for church violence and you'll have your answer. There has been many documented cases of violence in houses of worship over the last few years ranging from domestic issues to robberies. I am a member of a six man security team at the church I belong to, and we have all been trained and certified by the Attorney General of the State of Ohio, so we are more than just some guys carrying guns. Most churches can't afford to hire private security, so they must rely on their parishoners. Just like deciding whether or not to arm yourself, the question of security in church is something that must be answered by each congregation, not an outsider.
 
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