Firearm Stopping Power…a different perspective.

therefore since heat energy has nothing to do with the wound effectiveness of bullets it really has no place in the discussion.
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This is getting really pointless, I provide my data and get a whole bunch of non-relevant nonsense spouted, which I debunk for the sake of physics and then I get accused of dragging irrelevant things to the discussion? Look back at who dragged the cup of coffee and heat argument in this discussion.

I'm stopping with this argument, just take the calibre you're good with.
 
I provide my data and get a whole bunch of non-relevant nonsense spouted, which I debunk for the sake of physics.
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it's not your data it's your hypothisis.
So let's say we get a certain amount of momentum to our disposal which we can part between mass and velocity just as we like, then a slight increase in velocity wouldn't cause to much fuzz with the momentum, but would greatly increase energy and thus, penetration.
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This is wrong. yes increasing velocity will increase penatration but atributing it to energy alone just because velocity affects energy exponentionaly.
you would need to prove that penatration is increases exponentionally when velocity increases. Which it doesn't, penatration is affected liner by momentum. which is proven by the fact that when velocity is increased and mass is decreased you can make energy go up and momentum go down and lose penatration. it's very evident compairing ball or FMJ ammo of different weights in the same caliber IE 115gr 9mm fmj averages about 1250fps for 389 ft/lb of energy and 147gr 9mm fmj goes 1000 on average for only 326 ft/lb the fact that 147gr 9mm ball will outpenatrate 115gr ball all day every day is because of it's greater momentum.
 
First, I've not read this entire thread; nor am I going to.

2nd, I do not doubt the truthfullness of the data. If it's untrue, then shame on the person who made it up.

But...

What I see in looking over the data is simply proof that looking at data isn't a good way to choose a cartridge.

Why?

Go back and look at the data for the .22 rimfire. If we went only off of this data provided, I'd choose a pistol chambered in .22 LR as the best defensive handgun I can get, and that's simply not true.

I see no reason to collect data for this purpose. I don't collect data of this sort. I do, however, shoot a fair amount, and I've killed a fair number of animals with various cartridges. Enough so that I'm comfortable choosing what I believe will work best for me.

However, I also don't write books, and I don't make my living selling nonsense to the public.

When I chose my carry gun(s), I couldn't have cared less how the cartridge compared to the 9mm. I couldn't care less how it compared to a .357 Sig, or to any other cartridge. That is a non-issue to me.

Buy what works for you, and learn to shoot it well. What your buddies think of your choice, or how it compares to their choice is irrelevant.

Daryl
 
Hey Oldgrandpa, You want to know what conclusion was reached. The same as always when you have this many opinions on such a topic. It's always inconclusive!
 
If the bullet cross sectional density is equal to double the square of a right angle while the moon is in 1st phase and gravity is at a 1.6 mega photons then the target will be... :p


The only physics that matter the heavier and faster with a reasonable width are better than anything else so long as you can handle it and its not over penetrating...
 
9-ball,
"This is getting really pointless, I provide my data and get a whole bunch of non-relevant nonsense spouted, which I debunk for the sake of physics and then I get accused of dragging irrelevant things to the discussion? Look back at who dragged the cup of coffee and heat argument in this discussion.

I'm stopping with this argument, just take the calibre you're good with"

Why not just take post #115 to your physics prof and see what he says.

The 2 most dangerous groups in college:
1) Freshman physics students
2) Freshman philosophy students

One group thinks they know how the universe works. The other thinks they know how the universe should work.
 
A couple things 9ball is not taking into account (edit: with regardt to penetration):

1) Resistance, or drag, goes up squared with respect to velocity, just like energy does. Increasing velocity, due to a square increase in drag as opposed to a linear increase in momentum, will yield diminishing returns.

2) Higher velocity will only afford better penetration with bullets designed to penetrate at that velocity range; other bullets, pushed to higher than optimal velocities, may just start to disintegrate.
 
Penetration is a topic for Match.com or Hustler magazine

Here we were talking fizzix. 9 Ball kept talking about heat and penetration, i think he's just on the wrong website :D Sorry 9-Ball.:rolleyes:

I happen to disagree with a lot of your reasoning but the conversation was entertaining to follow.

The Most Important lesson in all of this:

No bullet matters if it misses the target.
Shoot what you can shoot best.
The bullet that hits a BG does more damage than the bullet that misses.
If your target starts dodging all your bullets, like Neo, then run away.
 
Even Scarier Version

If your target starts dodging all your bullets, like Neo, then run away.
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Neo:..."What are you trying to tell me, that I can dodge bullets?" ...

Morpheus:..."No Neo...I'm telling you, that when you are ready.....You won't have to!
 
I can't believe this chat is still going on. And there's discussion about heat and Kinetic Energy for heavens sake. That's ridiculous. I say that the discussion needs to be simplified. You're gonna go grizzly bear hunting and are pretty sure you're gonna come up on an angry grizzly, so what pistol caliber will you take along? It won't be a 38 Special and it won't be a 9 mm. It'll be the biggest darn thing you can buy and wear on your hip. At some point the math and the "fizzix" and the Kinetic Energy just become meaningless if you have to shoot and stop a grizzly. And do you really care if the bullet still has 2000 pounds of energy when it exits the bear and blows a football sized hole in the hillside behind the bear. Enough gun is just what it sounds like. Not enough gun will get you killed and eaten. And if the target isn't bear, but some meth crazed loonie that still wants to kill and eat you, refer back to my points on 'enough gun' or 'not enough gun'. And don't give me any grief about 'too much gun', which in my opinion is the same thing as 'enough gun'. You can't have too much gun.
 
And do you really care if the bullet still has 2000 pounds of energy when it exits the bear and blows a football sized hole in the hillside behind the bear.
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You might have to do that with those Texas Grizzlies but here in Wisconsin we can get away with 1,500 ft/lbs and a grapefruit size hole in Clems barn, any bigger than that and he would get upset.

You knew this was going to be a thread that would go into overtime silly after the first 3 or 4 responses.
 
Until you can get 100 people to shoot all calibers into 100 test subjects, there will be no definitive data. But theories. I kinda like the creativity on this though. I tend to choose a 9mm over a .40 S&W because I can shoot it more accurately. If I can shoot something more accurately it means I can make.more potentially deadly hits, thus making it more effective than another round.

Good read.
 
Regardless of the caliber, I believe in the one-shot stop....sometimes that shot is the very first one I fire....sometimes that shot is the last round in my last mag/speedloader reload....I'll just keep pressing the trigger until I find it....and I'll make sure to aim at a vital spot each time so it'll work when I find it....by doing it this way, I'm assurred that my .25ACP will be as effective as my .357MAG..... :D
 
So, with the op's study in mind and you knew you were going to be shot but you have a choice between being shot with either a .380 ACP or a .44 Magnum (shot placement being the same), which would you choose?
 
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