Fed up with Mosin Nagant

[raftman]

.So you want to question my intelligence (did I spell that right?)? That's ok. It's easy for people to call you stupid when you don't agree with their opinion. What's hard for people is to come up with an intelligent response and a valid argument against your opinion. Those that can do it are the people that should be giving advice to new shooters. If I was a lower primate as you suggest...I'd tell you we're going outside so I could knock the dust off ya. But I have opposible (did i spell that right?) thumbs.

With all due respect, your post didn't actually make any serious arguments as to why the Mosin is a bad choice for a novice shooter. You mainly resorted to statements like "POS made by commie heathens" or "whittled by Ivan from pine and old tractor parts." While one can see the attempt at humor, these things are far from fact-based arguments and more akin to name-calling.

In contrast, it has been thoroughly established as to why one might recommend a Mosin to a novice shooter.

1. They're inexpensive to buy: often available for under $80, you simply cannot get any other centerfire rifle for such a small price, particularly one with the following positive attributes:

2. They're inexpensive to shoot: One can buy a can of 440 rounds for around $80, a price that's unheard of for any comparable cartridge. The low cost of the rifle and ammo allows one to shoot a lot more, thus better developing proficiency. Gotta love the ability to develop skills without spending a whole ton of money.

3. They can be quite accurate: This is variable, these rifles are anywhere from 70-ish to 120 years old, so condition can vary from all but worn-out to just about pristine, but a good specimen can definitely hold its own in the accuracy department.

4. They're rugged, reliable, and durable: Mosins are built to last, and they have lasted, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them around today. They put up with heavy use and aren't prone to breaking or suffering failures. One can get a whole lot of use from a Mosin.

5. They're fun to shoot.

You simply can't get all of that for so little money from any other rifle. No one is arguing that they're best rifle out there for any given purpose, but for the price it's quite hard to top.

 

[Skans]

Well sometimes, I need a challenge and my Remington built Mosin Nagant delivers it... With any of my scoped rifles I can hit the 500 gong with every shot.... Try hitting that same gong with the Mosin, offhand...

I don't need to scope every rifle I own.. Some of them are for fun and nothing else...

My posts were really directed to folks wanting a cheap hunting rifle, because that's what they can afford. For a little more money, you can get a lot more rifle than a Mosin. Now, for those folks that just like to plink with this or that rifle - I have no issue at all with Mosins. I've got a Carbon-15 pistol that I like to plink around with - it ain't good for much else, but it sure is fun to shoot. I've also got an old Winchester 30-30, post-64 (yep, pitted up receiver and all) that I like to shoot - pretty much paid $50 for it. Bought an SKS and the 30-30 for $250 and sold the SKS for $200, leaving me with the ugly 30-30. And, I could actually hunt with that 30-30.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that a Mosin is not the best gun for hunting, nor the cheapest. But, if you just like it for historical, or whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that at all.....at least it's not a hi-point (Ooooo, I should have refrained from saying that.)

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Wild hogs have reached Southern Indiana. Some folks have described razorbacks, but I'm not sure about all that.

When they get to Northern Indiana, I will hunt them. I have a nice deer herd but also lowland out back in the woods where the deer hang. That lowland would make most excellent hog wallers.

Given that the Mosin turns coyotes inside-out, I plan to use it. However, I also plan on having backup in the form of my 1911 with 230grn hardcast truncated cone, and I will have the bayonet affixed to the Mosin.

I want any and all backup I can get. My dog looks like Old Yeller and I'm personally not a fan of being hog cut. I've heard it's quite unpleasant.

Josh

 

[benogil]

Josh,
My brother is a hunting guide in Texas , and guides for Hog hunts. When they get there , just some friendly advice , carry an extra mag for that .45.

 

[Clark]

I have spent the last few weeks, making drawing, making parts, doing tests, doing statistics, experimenting, and even a little shooting with Mosin Nagants.

I am sure my wife is tired of Mosin Nagants. She would like to see a little more home maintenance

 

[hornetguy]

Thank you to those of you with a sense of humor and an intelligent post. You are the ones that should be giving advice on TFL. Sorry I didn't take the time to write down the names of some of the quotes I'm gonna poach...my apologies for breaking the rules ahead of time. Just some I thought required an answer.

"Lighten up, Francis...."

You used my quote about the "trolling" If you had read it all, you would see that I was jokingly calling you a troll... read the next line of that post.

You started a thread that you knew would be controversial.. slamming a rifle that many people like, and enjoy shooting. Then you came back and stated that you were just "testing the waters"...
Seems like you EXPECTED negative comments, now you act offended that you actually received those comments.

Personally, I think some folks took your post WAY too seriously, which is bound to happen on the interweb... it just happens. Others responded very succinctly to your statements with intelligent, sensible rebuttals. That's a good thing. It's called "discussion"

I don't feel obligated to "defend" my decision to own, or not own ANY firearm. I DO like discussing qualities and characteristics of them... it's a good way to actually LEARN something.

Good discussion, all around, as long as we don't let it descend into name-calling and nose-tweaking.

Oh... the reason I mentioned the "sarcastic" smiley is that I can't FIND it... I'd be using it all the time, if I could just FIND the silly thing...

 

[hornetguy]

I have spent the last few weeks, making drawing, making parts, doing tests, doing statistics, experimenting, and even a little shooting with Mosin Nagants.

Clark... what are you trying to discover about all those Mosins?

The reason I ask is that I have a "project" in mind for my old, sewer pipe for a bore, Model 91. It was given to me, and it is one of the neglected ones. The bore is basically beyond hope. I still shot "minute of bad guy" groups with it, but it will never be what I would call accurate. So..... I'm thinking of a "modification"....

 

[chasep255]

I like working on my Mosin. I feel like if I screw up a $100 rifle I have a lot less to loose than a more expensive one.

 

[Clark]

At this minute I am looking at the spring rate in sears.

F = -kx
8 lb = -k -.1"
k = 80 lb/in

The elastic limit varies from sear to sear from .2 to .3"
That means the spring is yielding between 16 and 24 pounds of force.

The pre load of some sears varies from 6 to 10 pounds.
The firing pin is released with .05 ~ .075" of sear travel, but the over travel of the trigger makes the sear displace .10"

So if some sears are pre loaded at 10 pounds, and traveled another .1" which would be another 8 pounds of force, then the spring force at end of trigger travel could be 18 pounds.
Which means some sear springs were reset when installed in the rifle and the trigger was pulled the first time.

A while back I looked at my calculated and verified max torque on 10-32 drilled and tapped holes in the receiver for the ATI type scope mount.
I learned a lot of stuff from that, not just MNs.

 

[44 AMP]

How times change....

I grew up shooting in the era when Mausers, Spinglfields, Enfields, Arisakas, and even Krags were common and cheap. Ammo was too. What was rare and expensive was Soviet bloc guns and their ammo.

With the collapse of the Communist empire (exception; China) lots of nations found themselves desperate for cash. And they learned that US shooters would buy, and buy a lot of stuff if cheap.

Younger shooters often have lots of desire, but little cash. First rifles (no matter how bad they are) make a place in our hearts.

Most have expounded on the fact that Moisins are cheap, and so is the ammo. That is true, today. But they aren't as cheap as they used to be, and as time goes on, the cost will only go up. Sheer volume will keep it lower than many other things, but it will go up.

The Moisin Nagant could be described as a "bare bones" military bolt action. It dates from the early days of bolt action rifles, and lacks the refinements common to later designs. Also being Russian, it lacks the refinements Europeans considered minimum standards. It is what it is, but that's all that it is, and nearly all it can be.

US ingenuity has come up with all kinds of replacement stocks, sights, scopes, etc., but no matter what you do, you still have a sow's ear, not a silk purse.

It does, however work, and is nearly indestructable. Crude, but effective.

As a beginner's .30caliber, it has the benefits of not only being cheap, but tough. An extra scratch or three doesn't bring tears to the eye, or to the wallet (much, anyway).

The round is in the .30-06/.308/.303/8mm/7.7mm power class, and when you have a good bore, AND good ammo, is quite accurate.

They have their quirks (what doesn't?), but if you can live with them, they will give good service.

If you never heard of the Moisin Nagant rifles before finding them on TFL, you didn't learn much history. The main reason knowing about them isn't as common as the other milsurps is that until the fall of Communism, they were never around in any numbers. Now they are, are cheap, rugged, and crudely functional. Therefore, lots of guys love them, faults and all.

I would never recommend one to a friend, other than as a collector's piece, but there is one advantage to starting out with a Moisin, and that is when you move up in quality, you really appreceiate it!

And yes, I do own a couple. Also nearly all the other common milsurps, and while its just my opinion, I am basing it on experience.

 

[Buzzcook]

I'd take a rock solid $100 Mosin any day over a $400 sequined covered you-know-what from a pawn shop.

I like sequins. Rhinestones are better though. /snark

I'd guess this is the type of post the OP finds objectionable.

 

[rickyrick]

I wonder if some guy with a muzzle loader called a guy with a Mosin Nagant a Tacticool gun snob

 

[kraigwy]

One of the fastest growing venues of shooting sports is CMP GSM (Garand-Springfield-Vintage Military) matches.

In todays world, shooting high power rifle requries an investment of a min of $1500 just for the rifle, not to menton other equipment and AMMO (huge cost in HP). The precludes many "lower income' people from participating.

Along comes the CMP and created the GSM program. Ruled say ASS ISSUE. meaning you can't dump tons of mony in your rifle. We're all on the same sheet of music.

So if a guy wants to get into competition, where else can he find a $100 rifle that can be competitive. Ammo for the Mosin is cheaper then you can reload.

Just about any Mosin out there, using the surplus ammo is capable of shooting 3.5 moa. The 10-X ring on the targets used in the GSM matches is 3.5 inches. Its the shooter, not the rifle.

If a Mosin can come along and open the way anyone, regardless of income to get involved in rifle shooting, it jumps to the top of my Surplus Rifle list.

Since I'm old, and the commies' are all gone, no more "commie killing" so I drifted to the CMP GSM Games, and thats where the Mosin shines.

 

[TCL]

For the collector, the Mosin offers infinite variation while not being very expensive. I have one Springfield '03 (actually, a Smith Corona 03A3.) It cost me $800. It's probably the only one I'll ever own, because while it's a great rifle, the prices are just too way high. Same thing goes for M1917s, M1 carbines, etc. And watch Garand prices skyrocket when CMP runs out. My goal is not to collect those in detail, but rather one of each.

Now, I have a bunch of Mosins. The most expensive cost me $350, and that was a Finnish 91/30 that was as close to unissued as you'll find (a lot of Finnish 91/30s were produced postwar and went straight into storage.) My average Mosin cost me around $150. I have a pretty nice Mosin collection that includes some rare variations, done on the cheap. I have a few select examples of other rifles because they're too expensive.

I really need to start shooting the Vintage Rifle Matches one of the local gun clubs is staging, if I can ever make the schedule work.