FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar

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Wow, I would like to know what prompted this raid. Since they've been in business for 8 years, something must have happened to spark an investigation and subsequent raid.
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The government was denied a motion to dismiss a lawsuit filed by the Liberty Dollar corporation against the Director of the US Mint and the Secretary of the Treasury on October 15, and had just filed another motion to dismiss an amended complaint a week earlier.

Why duke it out in court when you can intimidate and bankrupt your opponent at the stroke of a pen?

That's a lot different than just selling gold coins. The OP appears to have been selling securities and/or commercial paper (perhaps orders, notes, or some type of negotiable instrument). And the government should regulate those who sell securities and negotiable instruments. Because without government regulation, buyers get scammed and ripped-off. That's why the government regulates those activities.
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Securities regulations cover a very specific list of instruments in the definition of "securities," and negotiable warehouse receipts - which is what the Liberty Dollar certificates are - are not covered under those regulations, but rather under the Uniform Commercial Code Article 7, with which the Sunshine Mint and the LD corp was in compliance, including monthly and annual audits of bullion holdings versus receipts outstanding.

Here's a link to the Washington State Department of Agriculture's form for requesting negotiable warehouse receipts, for example.

A warehouse receipt is a document of title, supported by legislative provisions. For example, see 7 USC 241 et seq for federal law pertaining to agricultural products warehouse receipts, or Title 69 Chapter 2 of the Idaho Statutes for bonded warehouse law that would apply to the Sunshine Mint in Coeur d'Aleine - in particular, 69-223.
 
From this article by Thestreet.com:

Secret Service and FBI agents raided the makers of Ron Paul silver dollars, Liberty Dollar of Evansville, Ind., early Thursday in a move likely aimed at stamping out an illegal currency.

The company started selling precious-metal coins stamped with an image of Paul earlier this year, with the first one made of silver available in July. Part of the marketing for the coins involved a promise that part of the sale price would be donated to the Paul campaign.

But if the raid results in the conviction of anyone involved, it is possible that the Paul campaign may have to return a cash donation made by Liberty Dollar.

The silver coins, which weigh one troy ounce, were sold for $25 each, with $5 being promised to help fund Paul's presidential bid. The gimmick fit in well with Paul's campaign promise to bring back the gold standard of monetary policy in which precious metals would back paper dollars.

So far, Liberty Dollar has donated $2,300 to the Paul campaign, a fact confirmed by both Paul's office and Bernard von NotHaus, who runs Liberty Dollar.


As a result of the raid, prices for the silver coins have skyrocketed, with Ron Paul silver dollars, which were available from Liberty Dollar at $25 on Wednesday, selling for $220 on eBay (EBAY - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr - Rating) recently.

Coins made of other metals, such as copper, gold and platinum, were also available from Liberty Dollar for a variety of prices. Prior to last summer, the firm had produced generic liberty dollars.

According to von NotHaus, the government move follows his efforts to sue the U.S. Mint, which in September had published warnings that von NotHaus's products were "not legal tender." Von NotHaus says he sued the U.S. Mint for slander after that proclamation.

Speaking hours after the raid, von Nothaus said he expects charges on money-laundering and wire fraud. Neither the FBI nor the U.S. attorney's office would comment.

But its clear something is coming, as the U.S. Mint declined to comment on the grounds that "litigation on the matter is pending."

The Paul campaign says it would likely return the donations if the money was deemed to have been obtained illegally. And that could very well happen if the charges stick.

Von NotHaus says the government agents had seized 500 pounds of silver, 40 ounces of gold, 3 ounces of platinum and 1.5 tons of copper, as well as taking all cash and computer records. Bank accounts were said to be frozen also.

The U.S. Mint says while it's not illegal to possess the Ron Paul money or Liberty Dollars, it is illegal to try to spend them.
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Now we learn that Ron Paul supporters were printing their own currency, and funneling their ill-gotten gains to the Ron Paul campaign. Wonder when ol' Ron is going to return those campaign contributions? :p Let me guess: The government cannot regulate its own currency, because that is unconstitutional. :rolleyes:
 
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
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I'm just curious, what was a guy who makes his living spreading the word about the illegal dollar and wanting to repeal the federal reserve doing with bank accounts the feds could freeze?:confused:
 
Like I said, Don, Liberty Bank wants your "fake government money" in exchange for those Ron Paul dollars. :D
 
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The idiot has had it coming for a long time. I saw this coming back when the moron published a guide to "using" the so-called liberty dollars that amounted to encouraging fraud.

4. Simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it? When you offer the American Express Card, if it is not accepted, they tell you. Likewise, if the store does not accept Liberty Dollars, the cashier will tell you and you can simply pay another way.

5. "Do the Drop!" The best way to introduce the Liberty Dollar is to drop the Silver Liberty in someone's hand. Do not hand it to the cashier, Drop it! Hold a one-ounce Silver Liberty a couple inches above the outreached palm and drop it so it lands flat in the person's palm.

6. Now the hardest part - don't say anything! Just wait. Let the person marvel at its beauty, weight, and discover it says TWENTY DOLLARS. When asked "Is it real?" Answer: "Yes, one ounce of silver PRIVATE currency valued at 20 dollars." Do not rush. Just stand there and wait, patiently. No need to smile. Just wait.

7. After 30 seconds, say, "I have US government legal tender money too [show the cashier FRN cash], but would prefer to pay with silver." If the cashier hands it back immediately, you may ask her to show the currency to the manager, or just pay some other way.

8. Never use a Silver Liberty alone unless the sale is greater than $10 and less than $20. If the total is greater than $20, include the Silver Libertys with FRNs.
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Telling people to try to defraud merchants by offering them a coin with a spot value of less than $15 and telling them it's worth $20 is encouraging fraud.

The feds were justified. The guy was an idiot trying to make a buck, and he got nailed. So?

BTW, the federal government having the power to coin money is IN the Constitution. The U.S. Mint was absolutely correct in their warning to consumers and warning that this company's attempt to pass off their currency as legal tender (as above) was against the Constitution.

Put away the tinfoil.
 
Let me guess: it is a far reaching Freemason/skull&bones/zionist conspiracy against Ron Paul, right?

Heck, all they were trying to do is pass off fake currency as legal US tender, right?!? Giving advice about how to rip off people who are trying to run a business by giving them fake money.

Ron Paul authorized this, huh? That's the real story. I want to know how involved Ron Paul was in this scheme, and how much "fake government money" his campaign received from Liberty in connection with the scheme.
 
I don't think Paul willingly "authorized" it, I think it's more evidence that he's too out of touch and too naive to even understand the consequences of it, both in terms of legality, constitutionality, and PR impact. His people said they knew of it, but did nothing. That means he's weak and unfit to be a leader.

He has no concept of how things work, this is just more proof.
 
His people said they knew of it, but did nothing.
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What exactly could his people have done about this? The FBI already knew about it, and was already investigating. I guess they would have refused the meager donation... but politicians don't usually give back money, even if it was obtained illegally.
 
They were minting coins with his likeness on them and calling them "Ron Paul" dollars. There's a lot you can do in terms of that, a Cease and Desist would come to mind.

BTW, yes, that video starts talking about the "insiders" and the "control group of 300"...it's LOL.
 
You can't make your own currency guys. I think that was outlawed over 150 years ago IIRC? I know minting coins is in the Constitution but before the Civil War, many Banks were making their own currency. So, maybe enforcement came after?

Is that what this organization is charged with?

I mean, you simply can't make your own currency from what I know, (which I admit ain't a whole lot).

I imagine it might fall under the "counterfeiting" type of statute? Manedwolf explained it well, it was a way for the guy to make a buck. There have been other guys like this that I've read about over the years.

Most got off if they turned over their stuff and promised to never do it again. I remember a guy in the 1960's who tried to do this and he was put on probation. I don't remember how far he had gone though compared to the Liberty Dollar guy. (The guy in the 1960's wasn't trying to make money at it, he was just kind of wacky about being able to make money that could be used by people for bartering amongst themselves.)
 
They were minting coins with his likeness on them and calling them "Ron Paul" dollars. There's a lot you can do in terms of that, a Cease and Desist would come to mind.
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Why bother though if the FBI is already on the case?
I am not sure exactly what law they would be breaking for using a non-copyrighted image of RP. What law would that be?

If this is a big deal, why is it not being talked about more in the mainstream media?
 
They were doing it for some time, Paul's camp didn't object. So they're not plotting anything, they're just STUPID.

I guess they're too busy trying to prove that Building 7 was taken down with explosives... :D

If this is a big deal, why is it not being talked about more in the mainstream media?
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You mean like a lead story in USA Today, yesterday? Do you not look at MSM stuff?

I picked up my iPod Touch, flipped it on, looked at news, there it was, main page.
Feds seize two tons of funny money featuring Ron Paul

Federal agents have reportedly seized illegal "Liberty Dollars" and other currency, including two tons of copper coins bearing the likeness of GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul.

The raid took place yesterday in Evansville, Ind., at the headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, a group that the government accuses of producing and distributing illegal currency.
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ronpaulmoney.jpg


http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/11/feds-seize-two.html

Note it does not say "Credits" or anything else that would have been legal. It says DOLLARS. And that, right there, is why the feds came. You can say "20 credits". You can say "20 peanuts". You can say "20 illuminati favors".

You can NOT say "twenty dollars" and encourage people to pass it off to merchants as legal tender.
 
Yea Manedwolf you are right... the stories are out there, I guess I just missed them! There is on on the CNN.com political page right now...

I have no idea why the RP would not have objected to this. It certainly looks like this business was making its own money.

But I don't know the details of monetary law. If the coin is really worth $20 of silver, then would it not be a commodity instead of actual money? And if so, would it not be legal to swap $20 of one commodity for $20 of another?
 
It's one ounce of silver. Spot price of silver is right now under $15. Trying to pass that off to a merchant as worth $20 is attempting to defraud them out of $5.

You're allowed to mint commemorative tokens and do whatever the hell you want with them. People do that all the time, strike medals, whatever. Even amusement parks have their own coins...but they say things like "credit", and always include something about "non-negotiable", "not legal tender", or "no monetary value". That's for legal reasons.

If you just say "DOLLAR" and "USA" and make it seem like a negotiable currency, you break dozens of laws. This was about like ramming a police cruiser and claiming it was in their way, in terms of strategy. It was stupid, and they got nailed. Done.
 
In all honesty, is anyone who is not a RP supporter even surprised that something like this happened? It was only a matter of time before something like this happend.
 
Yea I would say Manedwolf is correct also. If they had left off the $20 mark, I guess this would have been legal then?

Anyway, its much ado about nothing from a political standpoint. If Ron Paul was smart though, he would go ahead and give that $2500 donation back... its a drop in the bucket to him, and it would avoid future embarassment. He didn't commission the minting of this coin, and needs to distance himself from the people behind this.

Also, right now there are a LOT of Ron Paul Dollars being sold on Ebay. If these are illegal counterfeit money, then why is Ebay allowing them to be traded? Ebay has strict policies about people selling illegal items. I think Ron Paul should file suit against Liberty Dollar and Ebay. The Ebay suit could end up being worth much more money than Liberty Dollar gave him.
 
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