Ethics of Varmint Hunting

I don't want to sound critical but I'm not understanding this denning time issue at all. Please explain why coyotes should be protected during this period.
Jack
 
"Please explain why coyotes should be protected during this period.
Jack"

Unfortunately I know the answer to this question...

The talented politicians of (INSERT YOUR STATE HERE) have deemed that it is an unfair and inhumane act to shoot adult coyotes, while they are rearing/raising young.
This is the answer I received from my state rep 3 yrs ago..."Would you kill a rabbit while it's raising young? No. Then why do you want to shoot other animals during their raising season?"

To which I respond "If a rabbit becomes a disease carrying, pet killing, nusiance creature, that substantially impacts beneficial wildlife in my neck of the woods...then I would not hesitate to exterminate them on sight."

To this he had no response...:D
Isn't it great when logic leaves the uneducated speechless?:)
 
The original point was that killing the adults when they are tending young leaves the young without guidance, and supposedly they do much more damage to property, animals, etc, than if they had an adult to instruct them. Remember, this was according to research done abck in the late 1980s, not my idea. I simply said that if it causes more problem to shoot the adults while they are raising young (leaving the pups orphans) than to shoot them before they breed, why wait?

I know one answer, that is they are much more active during daylight hours when they are tending young because of their increased food needs. This makes them much easier to spot and shoot than at dusk/twilight.

I'm not trying to say they are cute and cuddly and we should hug them to our chests (now there's a disgusting thought). I just like to use what I shoot, that's all.
 
here is a question
what gives us the right.
we should be more concerned with the filth of society ie rapists and murderers

another question
why do they call it tourist season if we cant shoot them:D
 
Seems to me that shooting an adult coyote with pups in the den is very good. It leaves the pups suseptable to being killed and eaten by other predators. Less coyotes is better, in my opinion as a Westerner.
Jack
 
"here is a question
what gives us the right.
we should be more concerned with the filth of society ie rapists and murderers"

Yes, but I have small problems with that:
1-They won't allow us to hunt rapists, murderers, and sex offenders...
2-Coyotes have no other predators to control their numbers...
3-If we allow populations of coyotes, coons, skunks, etc. to reach epidemic numbers. we would have the same problem we had in the early 80's (Kids getting attacked by rabid dogs.)

IMHO, the less disease carrying creatures, the better.;) :)
 
Varmints in northeastern NC usually means crow or nutria. Crow hunting helps keep my rifle skills tuned in the off season and nutria hunting gives me an excuse to go stomping around in the swamp. There's a very long crow season but it's open season on the nutria. I guess you can eat either one of them but I don't know if I'd suggest it.
I've only seen one coyote around here. I understand they are becoming more numerous and it's open season on them too.
I was also taught to only kill what I'm going to eat but for any of the above species, I'll make an exception. I enjoy hunting and I enjoy exploring the swamp. Varmint hunting allows me to do more of both. If I'm doing a public service at the time, great.
I've taken plenty of nutria and a couple of crows with revolvers. I've got a friend that bowhunts nutria and garfish with a bowfishing rig.
While they're not varmints and we eat them, I used to enjoy taking bullfrogs with .22 cb longs. They've changed the law and I'm not sure if that's still legal or not. Maybe we can expect a plague of frogs soon. Thanks, PETA.
I know a few folks that shoot snakes and turtles. I do find this practice distasteful. I have no problems with taking out snakes that present a threat but I think it is unethical to just shoot every snake you happen to see. I did get a pretty big mocassin last summer that was living in a duck blind I fish by, though.
I'd say give it a try. If you find it distasteful, quit. You'll be missing out on a lot of fun, though.
 
Varmint

Here in PA there is no season and no bag limit on coyote. Every one I have seen or shot had mange. big problem here abouts. Every farmer around treats coyotes as S.O.S. They are less tolorant of coyotes than groundhogs.
 
One way to get on the good side of farmers is to thin out a prairie dog town in their field/pasture or to bag a couple of yotes that have been pestering the livestock. Heck, I even had a farmer come up to me once when I was back home and offer to pay for my ammo if I would spend a few days clearing out his pasture of prairie dogs. I told him that I would do it for free and come next deer season he let me hunt on his land and even todl me where a monster buck like to bed down. bagged the buck and every year I go home I stop by his place and thin out the prairie dog population.

Last year I even took along his kid and got him into varmint shooting. I got an old stevens bolt action with 4X32 scope on permanent loan to the kid. So that he can work on the 'dogs while I am not around. Take a kid shooting/hunting because they are our future. (also don't teach them anything stupid/ bad habits)

Also about the snakes. I shoot all on site (don't care if it is a bull snake or a diamond back), had a close call once (big diamond back went for my bow with out warning instead of my leg when I was stalking a buck) beat the sucker to death with my bow (broke a limb on a new PSE cost me the hunt and 200 to replace) and hate em ever since.
 
iagree and have done my fair share of pest control back on the farm
what i dont agree with is the inhumane way some go about doing it, that is
what i meant by what gives us the right.
true a yote will chew on a calf while its still alive but thats nature, wounding a yote, skunk ect and leaving it to suffer when its costs an extra thirty cents to put it down proper with another shot.
 
I've always figured that any killing oughta be clean and quick. That's just part of the basics of the whole deal, whether it's a legal game animal or a pestiferous critter.

Art
 
Blam!

I have been controlling pest populations on various plots of land for years. California, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, Nevada........It does develop the shooting skill quite a bit. I find a lot of pest critters to be slightly more challenging than other game animals. :cool:

We DO need to excercise caution and not blast just to eradicate the species, but in a recent experience, because of a mild winter here in OR, many natl forest campsites have been overrun by ground squirrels which chew holes into peoples tents, back packs, get into their food, and destroy the campgrounds. Who wants to camp in a place like that?? Not I! So guess what I'm doing tommorrow? :D

Sssssssmmmmmmmooooooooookkkkkeeeee
 
I would not consider eating a groundhog...mostly because most of them here are rather disgusting and have mange.game animals are different,squirrels and rabbits, I will cook and eat.

varmit hunting seems different than regular hunting because eliminating varmits is doing a favor to all the other animals...buzzards gotta eat too.:cool:
 
Buzzards gotta eat; same as worms. --the outlaw Josey Wales

Ethics of varmint hunting.... it's not an easy question, really. I think that some of the justifications are nothing more than rationalizations or BS, like livestock supposedly breaking their legs in groundhog holes - from what I understand from those who actually ranch for a living, that just doesn't happen - so that's but one example. But, OTOH, there is good reason in many cases, esp. rodents whose numbers can boom out of control in certain weather conditions like mild winters. But it gets into more of a gray area when justifying killing coyotes only because they kill your other game, like deer - for example, if you yourself are not a farmer with livestock subject to coyotes. I personally think it's OK, but it's not so clear-cut, ethically - I should say, I can see both sides of it.
 
FirstFreedom, I'm not in the sheep&goat bidness, so I'm not particularly hostile toward coyotes. But, since Ol' Wily and I both like quail, I tend to figure that if the number of coyotes around my place isn't too large, we can get along okay. I want the "balance of nature" to tilt a bit toward my stomach, not Wily's.

That attitude doesn't mean I'm going out regularly to try and shoot coyotes. I like to hear them yodel at night, and enjoy having them wander occasionally through my yard.

Shifting toward the local-area deer herd: Between predators and desert, we run about one deer to 150 or 200 acres, which is way below the carrying capacity of the land. We'd have more deer if folks shot more cougars and coyotes. But, with over a million acres of park lands, lions have a nice sanctuary--as do coyotes.

I don't see myself as separate from nature. I see no reason not to do some amount of management to suit me and my views about what's right for me.

What I want is for there always to be deer and coyotes and javelina and cougars and quail and raccoons and whatever else wanders around my pasture. (And my front porch--danged raccoons! :D)

Art
 
I like to hear them yodel at night, and enjoy having them wander occasionally through my yard.
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I hear coyotes yapping occasionally in my area. This is NOT a good thing as I live in what I guess could be considered the 'burbs. I have no beef with them persay but that they're coming into the developements now. They started off eating garbage, but have now graduated to dogs and cats. I have a dog that I love very much and that is a good enough reason for me to shoot a coyote on sight, not to mention all the little kindergarteners down at the corner waiting for the bus every morning. I have only seen one in my developement 1 time and by the time I got a gun it was gone.

A friend of mine has a bit of land 40 miles or so from where I live and he has had a problem with the coyotes eating his goats (not a problem for me 'cuz I hate the little beasties, but he takes it seriously). He's taken to spotlighting them and hammering them with a .308.

My point is there are needs for keeping the populations down, whether it is because of livestock, or another valid reason. IE
A $5000 registered american quarter horse!!!
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would be a good reason to shoot groundhogs, however I have no experience with them, the only one I've ever seen was a pet. They do carry diseases, and Coyotes can become quite brave as some people seem to think they are cute and feed them. This is when they become dangerous. Better safe than sorry IMHO.
 
This goes much deeper than target shootin' "varmits"

It's no secret that I'm against the wholesale murder of these "varmit" creatures so "man" can get his kicks or whatever he says to justify their destruction.

To answer a questions raised, "What gives us the right?" The answer is nothing. Nothing gives us the right to be so wasteful with natures' gifts of life and resources. Yet, we are. I understand the food chain and partake in it too. But I am not wasteful. Waste is a concept of greed and selfishness and it's just a shame.

Yes, we humans continue to really **** up nature, don't we. We've done a fine job of overharvesting the oceans of fish and polluting the seas, lakes and streams with poisons produced from much of the garbage we don't and never did need. And, we are extremely wasteful. Over the last 100 years we've been particularly grand in the US of eliminating the larger animals of the food chain such as coyotes, wolves, and predatory birds, etc. due to our careless waste of these "varmints" lives. They were inconvenient and in the way. So, instead of studying them and peacefully co-habitating with them, our ignorant ancestors killed them; much like we slaughtered the Native Americans and enslaved Africans. What a proud history, huh? In just a couple hundred years we stole this nation, destroyed its human inhabitants, over forested the landscape, and polluted the air, water, and soil with our filth, and have driven into near extinction any species which didn't serve a purpose or taste good. So, since we've murdered in cold blood all of the natural predators, it's no surprise that their food (the smaller varmits) begin to overpopulate. So our reaction could either be to reintroduce the natural predators OR more wholesale murder of the smaller varmits. Seems that our collective failure to understand the food chain will aid in our downfall, or at least succeed at the extinction of all but a handful of animals that we keep in cages to study or eat.

I implore any of you to consider your individual actions on a larger scale. Imagine you were your ancestors looking out over the great plains seeing amazing wild buffalo and scores of other wild animals. At one time beautiful wolves roamed the land; now they are fighting extinction becuase they were plentiful varmits. It's really quite shameful that we've practiacally destroyed so many of the beautiful resources which we have been given.

Before you judge me as anti-American or a PETA member, let me put your mind at ease. I"m as red blooded of an American as they come. I'm just not always proud of the actions of my fellow man. Am I guilty. Yes. Am I a consumer who uses harmful products. Yes. Am I a carnivore? Yes. Am I proud of it. No. Do I make attempts to NOT consume as much, to not be as wasteful and to recycle and help sustain the lives other creatures and also to eat food that is humanely processed where possible. Yes. For example, last week I rescued an injured Malard Duck which had a broken leg and delivered it to the Avian Rescue in Denver. Some of you would kill a mouse in your house. I am of the viewpoint that if I can capture it alive with a live trap, I'll do just that and release it into a field. I have to say that I've rescued a handful of injured animals in my life and that golden feeling of SAVING a life is a feeling that no amount of money can buy; it's a feeling that some of you will never understand. I pity those of you who truly enjoy murder of any creature for the sake of murder. Your wasteful attitudes mirror those of our ancestors which have delivered us to the point in history where we lose a species of animal to extinction at an alarming rate. Someday there will be no more of X animal that you so courageously shot. I hope you'll be satisfied.

Being one to objectively see both sides.... I propose that where there is a problem with rodents or varmints the solution is to reintroduce the varmints natural predators e.g. owls, snakes, birds of prey, coyotes, wolves, etc. Problem solved. Teach people to be able to co-exist with nature rather than exterminating it. As humans we have a great responsibility to pass along a pleasant world to live in and I, for one, would like my ancestors to be able to see wild animals outside zoos and menus.

Lastly, Websters dictionary defines "Varmint; Vermin: a person or animal regarded as troublesome or objectionable." Interesting.
 
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