Ethics of Varmint Hunting

B

BrendanClaude

Moderator
I was taught (under threat of harsh penalties) that I should never shoot anything unless I was prepared to eat it. Because of this, "varmint" hunting has always seemed somewhat wasteful and distasteful to me. Mabey I'm just ornery because I'm missing out on some entertaining shooting. Anyway, this is a challenge to all you varmint hunters out there. Tell me why it's OK.
 
pest control....

People get paid to extermnate bugs and insects. We volunteer to rod of the pests that cause property damage...
 
my father also taught me to not shoot anything i would not eat. i still go by that, except with varmints. my grandmothers angus farm is loaded with groundhogs. they hurt the crops, ruin the garden, and the cows can break legs by stepping in their holes. if i where to just let them go it could be nasty.;)
 
Hunting Varments.

:) Hi, Varmint Hunting Is Extending Your Hunting, Gtting Rid Of Animals That Distroy Young Of Outher Game, Like Deer, Rabits, Ringneck, Etc. If You Want To Eat It You Can, Just Make Sure It's Cookd Good, Use Italion Seasoning. Bon Apotete. Chow.
 
Bunsajb, if you hit the Caps Lock key before you start a post, the words won't all be capitalized in the sentences. :) That'll make it easier to read. That's what I'm told, anyway.

No biggie.

Art
 
Pest control...

Well, I think the damage caused by porcupines to my norway pines and to my bird dogs is more than enough justification to ventilate their livers at every opportunity.
Possums, skunks and raccoons raid nests of turkeys, woodcock, and grouse, and can be carriers of rabies. Feral cats destroy songbirds at a rate many find incredible.
No-one would consider eating a fox or coyote, but coyotes will eat spring fawns, and both make for nice clothing.
Basically, I do it in an effort to limit the populations of critters I wouldn't eat in favor of those I do. In addition to the occassional varmint culls, I plant and improve the habitat as best I can to further improve the environment for the deer, turkeys, grouse, etc. For the most part, varmint shooting is purely a utilitarian exercise.
But admittedly, I shoot procupines for the sheer visceral joy of it.
 
Most hunters have no quams about shooting a "varmint" and leaving it along the edge of a field for the vultures to eat. All animals have a niche in the environment, but when they over populate, they cause damage to that environment from a human perspective. The only animals that I think of as varmints are groundhogs (or similar species), wild pigs, and coyotes. Wolves used to be in that catagory. Fox, opossum, racoon, skunk usually are trapped and hence I don't shoot them unless it would be for the fur. Not eating them either. Deer can cause a lot of damage to farmer's fields/crops also. But there are seasons to reduce the population. Notice I say reduce the population. I don't believe in exterminating any animal just for the sake of calling them a varmint.

Varmint hunting is a way to hone your shooting skills duing the warm months. I hunted groundhogs a lot and I can say that it clearly made me a better rifle shot. I loved hunting them and did it frequently... several times a week during the summer months. I never wanted to eliminate them, only reduce the population. Like trapping, you always want to leave a few for "seed".
 
It's about population control and damage control. You can't look at a field full of thousands of prarie dogs and tell me they all should be there. I was in Wyoming last fall and was told that the primary predator of prarie dogs (the black footed ferret) was almost extict there. That's where we came in. The ranch we leased had thousands of these little critters just making a mess of his fields and pastures. So after our muley tags were filled.....prarie dog time. If the Fish & Game Dept. has NO rules pertaining to the shooting of these critters they must be a problem. We also had a guy drive up when we were shooting them and asked if he could take a few home to eat. I thought he was crazy. I'm not eating anything that ugly.
 
Hey sparkeysteve

Ugly aint the problem. Those in the know wouldn't dream of even touching let alone eating a prairie dog. Well substantiated fact that bubonic plague as well as a few other nasties exist in p.d. towns throughout the west. A couple of years ago, there was a small outbreak of monkeypox traced back to people with "pet" p.dogs.

bergie
 
Yup. Varmints, prairie dogs and ground squirrels in particular, can carry disease. Plague, relapsing fever, tularemia, and endemic typhus are all spread by the ticks and fleas which live on varmints. The critters also damage property, and coyotes will kill deer. Plus the fact that since many natural predators are at lower-than-optimal levels, someone has to fill in the role of keeping populations at a manageable size.
 
It is more of a form of pest control than anything else. If you have a mouse problem in your house you set traps and if you catch one does that mean you have to eat it? My father said the same thing about hunting animals when I was young and learning how to shoot. I think this was more to keep me from shooting and killing animals needlessly until I could make that decision on my own. Varmint hunters do fill a niche that while unpleasant to some, is extremely helpful to others.

Vermin come in all shapes and sizes and when we talk about hunting them we should try to explain the benefits of controlling the population. Take coyotes for example they generally stick to small animals, carrion and human garbage for food. But when times are tough for them they can pack up to bring down larger animals, when this happens things can be hell for the farmer and rancher. I've seen a coyote run through a flock of sheep and come out the other end with a lamb in its mouth and never break stride. This kind of property destruction affects the lively hood of the person raising livestock.

Prairie Dogs are another example these little rodents move onto a piece of property and literally destroy the land. The eat the grass so short around their towns that nothing is left for cattle or other like animals to eat, and erosion of the land by wind and water can become a problem. Prairie dog towns also seem to explode over night, it doesn't take long for their infestation to spread to cover several hundred if not thousands of acres. I would just like to point out that my parents who run cattle and who have been fighting prairie dog infestations for years have never lost any livestock to a broken leg caused by one of the prairie dog holes.

I think the biggest misunderstanding with varmint hunting comes from the videos that are being sold. Many people hunters and non-hunters find the videos of Prairie Dogs and other like varmints being killed by bullets that expand so rapidly that they seem to explode as distasteful. The best thing varmint hunters could do to promote their sport is to stop producing the videos and educate the public to the service they do for livestock and landowners.

Just my 0.02 worth.
 
I was also raised to the same ethic of not shooting anything unless you were going to eat it. I understand the need to eliminate the animals that overpopulate, particularly since man has exterminated the predators that used to control them. The predators were eliminated because of the damage they cause, both to livestock and people. The prey animals, mainly rodents, have been trapped, poisoned, shot, whatever in an effort to control them. The control measures themselves harm the products the farmers/ranchers are raising. I also know that many farmers, ranchers, etc., are limited to how often they can poison the animals that are causing so much damage to their crops. Hence, varmint hunters.

The government used to (and still does in some cases) pay people to go out and hunt certain species, but rodents are mainly controlled with poison grain. One problem with poisoned grain is it can affect a lot more than just the target species. Rifles are much more selective (hopefully), and do not harm as many of the animals you would want to preserve (again, hopefully).

You can refuse to hunt varmints on principle, but know you are not saving those animals from harm because they will likely die of disease due to overpopulation. You can hunt them and damage the population or select for traits that are counterproductive to the species. You can shoot anything that moves, or choose your species of interest. Either way, you are contributing to their death.

Ethics are messy, aren't they?
 
BC,

Almost every part of the country has a different kind of pest. Here in Oklahoma, a squirrel, is considered to be quite a tasty meal, but if you tell that to a guy from New York City, he will likely throw up:barf:
They are a real pest in the city. Other parts of the country consider Armadillos to be a pest , but in Texas, they have BBQ cook offs for them.
Wild Hogs, are a big pest here in Oklahoma, even though they are great hunting and eat very well.
Even the Whitetail deer, become a pest if the population goes unchecked.
California has laws that protect certain species, even though those species are a danger to human life, case in point, the Mountain Lion.
Your up bringing was right, and you shouldn't kill just anything that comes by, but take into account, that left unchecked, these pests will be in your yard, your cities, your house, and probably in your bed, before long.
 
I'm not assuming to be anyone's Judge at all. Ethics is a variable concept these days.

I don't approve of shooting crows or buzzards in the arid West. They're doing a great job removing animal corpses. Yet where corn and other crops are prevelant in the East, I comprehend the need to thin crows each year.

Prairie dogs are pests. They produce at least three litters each year. Doesn't take long for a dogtown to double in size. Shooting these critters is not as effective as poison, but provides food for other critters.

Coyotes and wolves are a menance to cattlemen. We shoot them on sight and don't give this a second thought. I'm certain someone will make a case for wolves. But from the Stockman's view point, any large predator is a menace to profitable business.
Jack
 
Jack-
Yes, I understand the issue of large predators roaming around helping themselves to whatever quadruped happens to be in their area of operation. Not a pretty picture.

There was some very interesting and controversial research done about 10 years ago regarding shooting coyotes on sight. The researcher discovered that there was less depredation in areas where people did not shoot coyotes on sight. The reason was that if the females raising young are killed, the young pups form packs and roam around attacking anything they want to. A mother coyote will teach the pups to avoid man and establish a balance. Not exactly what we expected, is it? So, you could say that shooting coyotes in spring and summer causes more coyote problems, whereas just harvesting them for pelts in the winter reduces the breeding adult population without the side effect of producing coyote "gangs".

Ethics are messy, aren't they?
 
Scorch:

A few years ago, trappers snared many coyotes each Winter for their prime northern furs. But prices dropped and very few guys trap much anymore.

Shooting them from the air is not cheap when you figure in cost per operating hour of a small plane. But its great fun! I went out with a "pro" couple times. He uses a Browning (humpback) 12 gauge autoloader with extended magazine and full choke. He swoops down to telephone pole height and I hammered 'em with high base #2 shot. The coyotes often change direction when the plane comes within range and the shooting is challenging. The corpse is left for the crows; hey they need to eat too.

Another guy I know got two free greyhounds from the racetrack in Denver. They were scheduled to be put down. With very little training these fast dogs work together to chase down a coyote and they kill it. He has made many friends among area ranchers with his fast dogs.
Jack
 
Jack-
Yes, hunting them for their pelts is not very appealing right now at $15 per pelt. I hunted coyotes through most of college back in the 80s when pelts were $60+ each for a tubed and stretched pelt. Made quite a bit of money at it.

Hunting them from the air is chancy at best. Like you said, they are pretty slippery little devils. And there is nothing wrong with an A5. I shoot one myself. It is one of the most reliable shotguns ever built.

I talked with a guy in Reno who got a couple of greyhounds and coursed coyotes with them. He said it was spectacular to watch! Then the coyotes started to learn that if they ran along barbed wire fencelines they could outmaneuver the greyhound. One of the greyhounds actually hit the wire at top speed, and it was a long time before it could run again.

Coyotes are smart, adaptable, and elusive. They are a blast to call in and hunt. The original point was why hunt them during denning season rather than hunting them for pelts? It supposedly only causes other undesirable problems.
 
population control and preventing property destruction

I shoot varmits to prevent the over population and spread of disease along with their damage of property.

Where I come from (SD, NE border area along missouri river) we have a bad problem with coyotes spreading mange, killing livestock and the deer population. I hunt them not to erradicate, but to control their poulation size. I also shoot prairie dogs because they destroy the farming and grazing land. We had to put down a good horse once because it stepped in a prairie dog hole and it broke it's leg so bad that the vet could not fix it. A $5000 registered american quarter horse!!!:mad:

You tell me what's worth more a horse or a prairie dog. I can shoot all day and the little dumb buggers are still standing there for me to shoot at.
 
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