Ethics of Concealed Carry

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Its been rather easy for me,i just asked myself "would i rather let someone take my life,or kill someone to live" This is only possible if i am in the right and a victim.
I don't think i could live with myself if i took a life needlessly or wrongly.

Ive even had a dream where this came into play and i did use my weapon to protect an innocent person from an attacker,and it bothered me badly for a few days and it was just a dream.

If it were me wanting to talk with him about it i think id do it over a 12 pack of good beer when for me my emotions seem more raw and at the surface.
But let him make his choice,if you were to push him and something did happen there could possibly be a lot of guilt on your end for putting him in that situation and something happens and he could have alot of bad issues due to it.
 
I don't carry all the time. In fact, I don't carry very often at all.

When I carry it's not because I think the gun may take a life, it's because I think the gun may save one.
 
Carrying a gun has many varied and serious ramifications. The sole purpose of carrying one should be for self defense; to neutralize (stop) a perceived threat to your life and/or that of a loved one. This is a major can of worms as your perception, which is your reality, may be completely different from a casual observer who perception may be 180 degrees from yours.

The projected outcome is that you will have saved the intended life. If you train and train throughly and continually, the odds are in your favor. If you don't, then you roll the dice.

The one guaranteed result is you are going to be sued. Even if you have been found to be 100% correct in your assessment to utilize your gun, the BG, or in the case of his demise - his family, is taking you to a civil court. Are you prepared for this battle? Even if they have a next to no chance of ever winning anything, the attorney is probably going to buy a new Beemer with what you have to pay him.

Bottom line....the responsibility is awesome. One must be mentally astute to accept that. Obviously, most of us here, are. There are some that do not want anything to do with it. They will play the escape odds. It works for them. Each of us is free to make our decision. We have to live/die with whichever way we make up our mind.
 
You have to sort out the moral implications ahead of time. During a gunfight is the WRONG time to ponder that stuff. You have to figure out, based on a combination of your personal morals and the laws of your area, under what circumstances you're willing to kill.

Every shot you make should be to save a life, never for revenge. If you're firing while angry or while there's a look of rage on your face, you should never have bought a gun in the first place let alone pack it on the street.

In my case I base my personal morals on the core Libertarian principle: I will not initiate force or hire anybody to do it on my behalf. I add in "I will not kill in revenge or for any purpose other than to save a human life". Very, VERY few jurisdictions would have a legal problem with those principles in combination. I genuinely think I have enough self control not to violate them.

I pack daily, without fail.

I've threatened with deadly force (knives, in California) three times, twice in defense of others. I've never had to use deadly force. One of those three instances was against two dogs, once against a mugger with a wrench, once against four homicidal lunatics trying to kill a guy with a combination of stomping and hammers. I had no legal problems in any of those cases - a full investigation was made of the latter and the cops gave my cutlery back on-scene.

I left Cali in 2005, spent a year in WA state then in Tucson AZ since '06. I've had a CCW permit continuously and packed, and have never had to draw or "reveal the holstered piece" (what most states would call "brandishing").

I genuinely hope I never have to.
 
I do not ever even think of using my gun to kill someone. That is never something I will be trying to do. I only think of using my gun to protect myself. If someone else dies in that process I am of the mindset that I would rather make it home to my family then I would have them make it home to theirs. In my mind when you kill someone you have taken aggressive action to end that persons life. In self defense I am not the aggressor so I do not see it as killing someone as much as I see it as them dying due to someone they were trying to harm defending themselves.
 
My thoughts are as such: first off, if it's in defense of my family, the decision is so much easier, as I'm sure it would be for most folks out there (consider it sexist if you want, but it's genetically ingrained that as a man it is your job to protect your family).

In defense of myself, I don't anticipate having a problem. I've not fallen victim to the societal idea that other people are more important than you, or that 'no one is better than anyone else.' If someone wants to do me harm (and we are talking about genuine threat of death, so don't think me too casual), then they are making their wager in the risk/reward system of life. If they lose the bet and suffer severe consequences, it was not I who posed the situation. Which I suppose is a fancier way of saying what PBP said.

As for robbery, a situation less clear-cut, and one that some may begin to doubt the propriety of killing, I feel that my property is no less important than my life. After all, earning that property is essentially an alchemical process of transmuting my life, my time, my effort into money and into property. The idea of just giving someone a portion of my life, my time on this earth, is ghastly.
 
It's not that complicated....

ask yourself if you are willing to kill someone in defense of yourself or others.

If the answer is no then you don't need to be carrying.

It's called 'deadly force' because that is the potential outcome.

Ever wonder why silhouetted targets don't have higher scores on the arms and around the edges?
 
I think it's interesting, that your uncle is weighing the options...

Me... I'm the nicest, most easy going guy you'll ever meet, but I would not think twice about shooting someone, if I feared for my life, or my family's well being...

but that is not for everyone... there was a local family, that suffered 2-3 deaths during a late night home break in a year or so ago... they died from their own shotgun... I "suspect" that whom ever confronted the criminal, with the shotgun, ( they had younger kids, so I don't think they had a loaded shotgun sitting around, where the bad guy could find it that easily ) was not mentally prepared to actually shoot the bad guy, & allowed them to get close enough to wrestle the gun from them... sometimes presenting the gun is not enough, & we need to be mentally prepared to pull the trigger... if we can't do that, we are likely better off with a less leathal option ( like pepper spray ), at least then, if your weapon gets used on you, "it" won't likely kill you...
 
The simplest answer

Here is the simplest answer anyone can give (and possibly the best):

Respect your uncle's autonomy. There are nearly as many reasons not to carry as there are to carry.

I do have my permit, but I think people have to be able to make their own decisions, esp one like this, because there is a lot of responsibility involved and some people would rather not undertake that. Even though I and others are willing to under take the responsibility, if someone is not, thats their choice.
 
IF you carry a gun or a knife for protection you better be confident to use it.IF not you could be DEAD .


DO NOT MESS WITH ME OR MY FAMILY FOR YOU MIGHT SEE A SLEEPING GIANT
 
I see one thing i don't understand in this thread,many people say they do intend to use their weapons but not wit the intention to kill.
This may be a side can of worms on this related topic.But if i pull my weapon to protect myself or another innocent, im shooting to too kill,which also means neutralize in my book also as they wont be getting up.

I will add that if the threat is neutralized and laying on the ground and his weapon taken away i wont keep firing,but ill keep firing until he hits the ground tho and i know the threat is gone.

I know my CCW instructor said he would only stop firing when he ran out of ammo in the mag.But also stated to access the threat after a double tap com and 1 head shot.While i do practice that im not the most proficient at it.

Now this is just my feelings and do not want to push my ideas upon others.
But i feel if you DONT use your weapon with the intent to kill you are putting yourself in more danger for retaliation.

It may be possible i train myself to be ready to kill someone mentally and accept the related mental consequence as i do carry a .45acp which isn't known for doing good things like Milk does for the body.
Most likely that person will die,and for me that may be a hard thing to live with later in life.Or it may not bother me one bit,i don't know ive never been there.
 
The one guaranteed result is you are going to be sued. Even if you have been found to be 100% correct in your assessment to utilize your gun, the BG, or in the case of his demise - his family, is taking you to a civil court.
Click to expand...

That strongly depends on what state you live in, and possibly even the county, city, or town.

It is far from a "is taking you to a civil court" in many areas.
 
He'll have to make the decision on his own terms.

To put it plainly, life is the most fundamental of liberties. I have a right to defend it. If I'm to be serious about doing so, I need the right tools, as well as proficiency with them.
 
"Kill" is not a politically correct term,,,

Now before you people jump me too badly,,,
Hear me out for a thought.

Here is a quote: "I see one thing i don't understand in this thread,many people say they do intend to use their weapons but not wit the intention to kill.
This may be a side can of worms on this related topic.But if i pull my weapon to protect myself or another innocent, im shooting to too kill,which also means neutralize in my book also as they wont be getting up."

It seems to me that people just dn't want to use the word kill,,,
I see why they are reluctant to use it,,,
Because lawyers use it against you.

We were told in my CC class to use the phrase "Stop the attack",,,
Rather than "Kill the attacker".

I'm sorry it's that way but it is in out litigious society.

I was once asked "Would you actually kill a person over your TV set?"
I responded: "No, I would kill him for violating the sanctity of my castle."

But if you use the word kill you open up your mindset to rebuttal and will probably lose that civil suit.

I'm like the man who said,,,
I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders.

I'm not PC and have no desire to be,,,
But I'll put on the best show I can in court,,,
Crocodile tears will flow down my cheek like rain.

But my attacker will be dead,,,
me and mine will be alive,,,
And that's exactly how I want things to be.
 
Although it is a personal decision to arm oneself, I fail to see how there could be any logical moral dilemma. I know of no major religious order that suggests that one must allow evil doers to harm them, especially to the point of death. If a person does not believe in religion, or a god of some kind, then there is only evolution. Evolution really has no rules besides kill or be killed and there are no moral implications at all.

Either way, self defense in any form is not only allowed but generally expected.
 
Whether or not your uncle decides to go through with the class and obtain his CC license will probably be determined by just how much worse things might get down the road, especially if your area is hard hit with rising unemployment and degrading social values.

Just because he goes to the trouble to be licensed in no way requires him to carry or defend his home and family in a lethal manner, it does however give him another tool in his box to take out and dust off in the worst case scenario.

In addition, the class will educate him on the requirements of legal self defense that may help him out if he finds himself in a pinch. Ignorance of the law is no defense, nor is ignorance bliss. Skill is better left unused than unaquired.
 
When you’re thrust into a desperate life threatening situation, no conscious decision making process takes place. Rather, there’s an instinctive self preservation reaction that takes over. Normally, you’re consumed by fear and your sole focus is to run away to safety. When a bad guy prevents that from happening and presses the attack, your CCW is your last resort.

The alternative, to not carry a handgun based on moral reservations, puts you at the mercy of the bad guy. I'm happy to be Amoral in that respect.
 
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