Enough of this P99 crap

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I own one P99 in 9mm and two Glocks in 9mm. The P99 beats the Glocks in the accuracy dept. I think this may be due to two reasons. One reason is a better quality barrel in the P99 and also a superior single action trigger.

As far as reliability. I have fired some military surplus ammo I bought at a gun show and the P99 was 100 per cent reliable with it. Both 9mm glocks failed to dent the primers hard enough to fire some of this ammo and as a result I am not comfortable trusting my Glocks for use as a defense pistol but I still do have confidence in the Walther P99 because it has not failed me in any way.

Is there anyone out there that can give me a well written technical explanation about the difference between the standard P99 trigger( which is the one I own) and the P99 QA trigger. How do the double and single action trigger systems differ between the standard and QA systems? Is it only in the distance of trigger reset that basically differentiates the two systems?
 
In another thread "Most overrated", agtman said,
HK USPs.
Good guns, but not $500 better than several others out there.
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To which i commented
I bought my USP9 for $525.00 NIB. Please, no, PLEASE!! refer me to a model that shoots just as well, had no problems after 1000+ rds of all types of ammo (yessiree, plain lead bullets work just fine!), a looker at the range (where i shoot, at least), fast trigger, crisp SA, extra heavy DA (i LIKE it!), etc. etc. for $25. You'd be doing the gun community a lot of good for this unselfish act...
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:p ;) :D and linked

usprainbow.jpg


From which I'm quite sure is the reason this latest statement came out:
Okay, well, my working-class 2-cents says that HK USPs are overrated pretty-boy poser guns. Alternately, USPs also qualify as overpriced drool-toys for mall ninjas with SEAL-wannabe fantasies (like the ones who post HK P.R. ninja pics on TFL).
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Well, sir, I'm also a regular working class, monthly pay, law-abiding citizen, with a fascination for high tech, sci-fi, often military-related concepts and products, to which, i sincerely believe, that the great majority of the gun-loving, owning, and gun-supporting community belongs to. Here, it's the GLOCK that falls in the category you've described. USP's are bought mostly by urban professional executives (which i would want to become someday), who know how to discern "overpriced drool toys", and have the mental clarity to realize that such a product could not possibly be made for $25.
Hey, Tamara, I thought you put the final kabosh on this whole "TRIBES" thingy
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But by disenfranchising a certain segment of the gun community by your recent comments, you are in fact, promoting the ' "Tribes" thingy ' situation to worsen. I'm sure it's not just me, but i notice that you don't pass up the opportunity to lambast the USP. May i ask, sir, have you given it a try?:confused:


Respectfully,


New_comer:cool:
 
New_Comer, buddy ...


... when you see one of these guys, :D , it means that any statements preceding it were meant jokingly. Hence, in the spirit of the thread, I asked the Tamster about her thread a while ago on "silly little tribes." (If you missed it, do a Search).

As far as HK USPs go, well, I guess you were able to access a bargain-basement deal w/ a friendly FFL.

Contrast that with retail HK prices in my area.

At my local gun shop around X-mas last, I was checking out a USP Compact (blue) in 45acp. Okay, it felt great in my hand (important for me), and it was chambered in a caliber I respect and have carried in the past. I liked the controls, and the trigger felt pretty good.

Then I flip over the price tag and see $810.

Like an unexpected b*tch-slap, sticker shock set in. Pimpled-face counter-guy reads the "WTF" expression on my working-class face.

"Comes with an extra mag," he says.

"Geez," I say, "even with an extra mag that's still high."

"Well, the price reflects demand."

"Oh, really?"

"Yep. We sell a bunch each month to Special Forces guys."

"Not the ones over at the Mall?"

"No," he says, clearly aggravated. "The one's heading overseas." (He must have have believed all those slogany HK flyers).

He takes back the USP from my proletarian hands. Then he gives the gun a quick wipe with a cloth. What for I can't say, since it's largely plastic and not likely to rust in the next few minutes. Maybe it's a precaution against contamination by a working-class type.

"Hey, check these out," counter-guy says, motioning me over to where the "preowned" guns are displayed. A less upscale neighborhood. More my style, I guess.

As I said in the "Overrated" thread, HK USPs are certainly good guns. No problem with that. But for $800, all of it hard-earned and not X-mas $$$ from mommy, my opinion is that there are equally good guns for less. For that price, you can get, say, a Glock and several pre-ban hi-caps. Now maybe in your area the prices are more reasonable. Okay, so you got a better deal. Don't feel you have to defend it.

Actually I'd like to see HK release a USP in 10mm. There are some on TFL who've "converted" full-size .40s to 10mm by reaming out the barrel, using ParaOrdinance .40 mags, and doing some other tricks. Apparently it works.

Maybe someday I'll pick-up a USP Compact in 45acp. But for now I'm content with my blue-collar pistols.

Have fun.
 
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Then I flip over the price tag and see $810.
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I could certainly relate to that, after a more horrifying $1,800 price tag for a SIG228 was 'proudly' declared by the snobbish store rep. :barf: Who in his right mind...? :confused: No wonder the DAC394 and Norinco NP22 have been getting more than their fair share of attention during past gun shows. No question about SIG quality, it's just that these store owners sometimes...:mad:

Well (sigh!), i guess i have a buddy after all... :D ;)

Nothing beats reconciliation!:D


Best regards,


New_comer:cool:
 
I could certainly relate to that, after a more horrifying $1,800 price tag for a SIG228
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Call that man right now and tell him I'll sell him all of them he wants at only half that price. He'll be able to mark 'em up 100% and make a killing!

(Of course, even if I bought them at full boat retail, I'd be turning a $300ish profit per gun. The drinks would be on me. :D )
 
Let me assist my fellow forum members with some FACTS.

1. The SW99 is conceptually the same as the Walther P99. It is not the same manufactured gun. It is just that in this case S&W sought Walther's approval as they did not want to make the same mistake they did when they copied the Glock re: the Sigma pistol and ended up in court.

2. I have seen inconsistent Gun Tests reports, even with the Walthers. But where has that not happened before?

3. The Glock pistols have undergone many changes since its inception. The latest changes have been the inclusion of a loaded chamber indicator and the glock block which allows the pistol to be rendered inert. Many businesses exist in America right now that are profiting on making and selling aftermarket parts for the Glock.This is obviously because the pistol has flaws. The Glock's basic design concept is good however and will influence handgun design for some time.

4. I suggest looking at the Manufacturer's Recommended Price when doing a price comparison so like can be compared with like.

5. Walthers are used by the German State Police and replaced the PP and P38 models. The USPs are also used.

6. The Walther was introduced to the market around 1998 and so in 3 to 4 years it has had a greater impact on the handgun market and a more positive one too than Glock did in its first 3 to 4 years on the market. In ten years time where do you think the Glock will be market share relative to the Walther.
 
1. The SW99 is conceptually the same as the Walther P99. It is not the same manufactured gun. It is just that in this case S&W sought Walther's approval as they did not want to make the same mistake they did when they copied the Glock re: the Sigma pistol and ended up in court.
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Erm, that's not what Walther says. They're quite proud of their joint venture in the SW99. They oughtta be; they make the frames in the same plant that the P-99 frames are made in and ship them over here, where they then get a cut of the action for every one sold.

5. Walthers are used by the German State Police and replaced the PP and P38 models. The USPs are also used.
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Walthers? Yes. (although they're all being phased out; look for good deals on surplus P5's soon) P-99's? No.

Which state? In Germany there are no city or county departments like we know them here. There is the BGS (Border Guards), the BKA (National Police, kinda like the FBI) and the various landespolizei or state police.

Bundeskriminalamt (BKA - Federal Bureau of Investigation)

The BKA issues the 9×19mm H&K P7M8 pistol. (but is transitioning to the HK P8 and HK P10)



Landespolizei Baden-Würtemberg (State Police Baden-Würtemberg)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm Walther P5 pistol. (Also transitioning to the HK P10)



Landespolizei Bayern (State Police Bavaria)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm H&K P7M8 pistol.



Landespolizei Berlin (State Police Berlin)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P6 pistol (P225).




Landespolizei Brandenburg (State Police Brandenburg)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P228 pistol.




Landespolizei Hamburg (State Police Hamburg)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P6 pistol (P225).




Landespolizei Hessen (State Police Hessia)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P6 pistol (P225).




Landespolizei Niedersachsen (State Police Lower Saxony)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm H&K P7M8 pistol.




Landespolizei Nordrhein-Westfalen (State Police Northrhine-Westphalia)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P6 pistol (P225).




Landespolizei Rheinland-Pfalz (State Police Rhineland-Palatinate)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm Walther P5 pistol.




Landespolizei Saarland (State Police Saarland)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm H&K P10 pistol (USP Compact), it replaced the 9×19mm H&K P9S in the late 1990s.




Landespolizei Sachsen (State Police Saxonia)

Issue handguns are the 9×19mm H&K P7M8 and 9×19mm H&K P10 (USP Compact).



Landespolizei Sachsen-Anhalt (State Police Saxonia-Anhalt)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P6 pistol (P225).




Landespolizei Thüringen (State Police Thuringa)

Issue handgun is the 9×19mm Walther P5 pistol.
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6. The Walther was introduced to the market around 1998 and so in 3 to 4 years it has had a greater impact on the handgun market and a more positive one too than Glock did in its first 3 to 4 years on the market. In ten years time where do you think the Glock will be market share relative to the Walther.
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Unfortunately, Walther has placed themselves in the awkward position with the P-99 of having just another nice plastic gun in a sea of nice plastic guns. (It may even be the nicest plastic gun, but it was late to the party and doesn't have the name recognition of the Glocks or USP's) Lowering their price was an intelligent move, as it took them out of price-point competition with the better-known USP and offers the attractive alternative to new handgun buyers of the cachet of the Walther name at roughly Glock prices. It may work, and I hope it does, but it'll be an uphill fight. I've sold 4 Glocks and 2 USP's to every one P-99.
 
Glock ain't perfect

P99: Well they figured out the Glocks major shortcomings and did something about them. I say good for Walther.

Glock: Easy to obtain accessories. Really is easy to maintain and very reliable, more so in my view that HKs based on my experience. My HK 45's firing pin broke, twice, and HK .40c had to have slide and bbl replaced due to cracking.

But, I hate, hate, hate the Glock trigger. I put aside all my other pistols for 6 months to try to get used to the Glock trigger. Mine seems to get worse for wear. All I have to show for it is a lot of wasted ammo and bad tendinitis in my elbow now.

The Glock trigger in my g34, what can I say? Sometimes it breaks at 4 lbs, sometimes 4.5. Sometimes it breaks sort of cleanly with a straight pull. I measured the pull--there are 4 distinct pull tensions required in the stroke. Sometimes I apply the right amount of pressure and it just keeps moving and flexing stuff inside... it just feels like you're pushing in a thumbtack into hard particle board.

I'm going to pop for a trigger job. If that doesn't work, the vaunted Glock gets sold. At this point I am just wasting ammo trying to overcome the awful, crappy, sh**y trigger. Sort of like going fishing in a boat with a big hole in it. At some point you'd rather fish than bail and you just ask yourself, what is the point?

I'll just go back to my p7. First three rounds I shot out of it made a nice cloverleaf at 10 yards. Gaston, the trigger does make a difference. I wonder how many bad shootings have been experienced by cops because of the bad Glock trigger.
 
The PD of my city just went to the .40 Walther P990 from S&W 6906s. There goes the theory that no LEA issues them.
 
YOu can find some leo out there using anything. I am sure some LEO is using a Korth revolver. The walther p99 if they work the bugs out may have a share of the market in the futer but not a huge share because it does nothing a glocks can't do better.
PAT
 
:) I did say FACTS.

1. You are mixing up the first set of American made Walther P99 with the German made Walther P99 where Germany made the frames and sent them to America, and the slides and assembly were done in America. Buyers had to look at the proof marks to ensure they were getting the German and not the American version which was seen as inferior. I have attached a picture of the proof marks for the genuine Walther P99.

The SW99 is made by Smith and Wesson in cooperation with Carl Walther GmbH, Sportwaffen. This agreement was necessary because their were patents pending on the Walther and S&W did not want a court battle.

2. I said that Walthers are used by the German State Police e.g Baden Wurtemburg State Polizei and that still stands. I never commented on whether they were standard issues or not. That is a different discussion. Generally, over the last 1 to 2 decades, standard issue for the German State Police have been the Sig P225 and HK PSP(P7). A gradual changeover is taking place now and Walther is hoping its P99 can make it as standard issue. Nonetheless some State Police have been using the P99 even without the changeover being completed.
 

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>>> The walther p99 if they work the bugs out may have a share of the market in the futer but not a huge share because it does nothing a glocks can't do better. PAT

The Walther has a much better trigger and doesn't look stupid. The Glock may be the ugliest pistol ever made, and I say "may" because it's conceivable, though not likely.

When the Glock first came out no doubt there was someone saying that S&W .38 revolvers were better because that's what 70% of LEA's used. Every time I turn around at my club now, someone is there with a new P99.

The Glock has proven itself as the #1 Yuppie firearm, though.
 
You really should read my post before doing all that typing on a reply.

You said:

1. You are mixing up the first set of American made Walther P99 with the German made Walther P99 where Germany made the frames and sent them to America, and the slides and assembly were done in America. Buyers had to look at the proof marks to ensure they were getting the German and not the American version which was seen as inferior. I have attached a picture of the proof marks for the genuine Walther P99.
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In response to me posting:

quote:
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1. The SW99 is conceptually the same as the Walther P99. It is not the same manufactured gun. It is just that in this case S&W sought Walther's approval as they did not want to make the same mistake they did when they copied the Glock re: the Sigma pistol and ended up in court.
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Erm, that's not what Walther says. They're quite proud of their joint venture in the SW99. They oughtta be; they make the frames in the same plant that the P-99 frames are made in and ship them over here, where they then get a cut of the action for every one sold.
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If you will read my post carefully, you will note that nowhere did I say anything about "American-made P99's". I said that calling the SW99 "not the same manufactured gun" is not entirely accurate, as the frames for the SW99 are made by Walther in Germany, then shipped here to be mated with slides manufactured by *&*.

I wasn't "mixing up" anything about the P99; I wasn't even referring to the P99. I was responding to your claim re the SW99.

:)
 
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