engaging the active shooter

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I'm not a Suarez guy, Ayoob guy or anybody but a Sarge guy. When the balloon goes up, none of them will be holding my hand. But Gabe is dead right on all counts here. This stuff, and incidents like the North Hollywood Robbery, are precisely why some of us zero our carry guns for 50 yards and work hard at that distance.

Also, kudos to PawPaw, especially for post #8.

I have no truck with any private citizen who avoids a confrontation with a rampaging active shooter. If you do make that decision, channel Crazy Horse:

"Hokahey, today is a good day to die!"

Then fight like hell until it's over.
 
training/use of force lessons..

The Ayoob clip wasn't that complex & the training drill was not slanted.
As Massad Ayoob explained, the students(all veteran LE trainers, armed professionals or military spec ops) had to take a older family member to the airport in a SUV & be ready to engage a threat at any time.
What the seminar members did not know was that a cadre was hidden under a pile of gear & bags. Only Ayoob and a medical professional who deals with LE, quickly IDed the threat(bad guy). That's out of 130 students.
A few students did engage the armed subject but were "killed". :(
Some did nothing & complied with the "bad guy". They were murdered at point blank range. Ayoob remarked that the training drill left a few of the seminar members with PTSD & mental health issues.
The video clip is worth viewing. Ayoob is a "straight shooter" & has taught 100s of armed citizens/sworn LE officers.

Clyde
 
To each their own, but I'm thinking you're all smoking something funny along with a tinge of John Wayne fueled fantasy of how it's actually going to go down.

Having seen trained Infantryman freeze up in react-to-contact, 99% of you who have no formal training are going to quickly vacate your bowels into your pants (mostly figuratively but also literally in some cases).

Best thing for you to do is runaway and runaway fast as some numbnuts strolling around a shooting area with a weapon is liable to get himself shot by the professionals responding to the situation or by another numbnuts trying to be a hero.

The last thing I'd do is try to take on an active-shooter (especially one armed with a rifle) with a handgun and only engage in gunplay as a last resort.

I know my ideas aren't very heroic, nor fit into people's John Wayne fantasies, yet having done a thing or two in regards to using weapons under pressure and stress, it would be a rare man who can pull it off, especially when confronted with an unexpected ambush.
 
harsh: Inside Edition...

Those remarks are a bit harsh. I'm not quite sure who they were directed towards. As I posted; the city of Houston TX video is called RUN Hide Fight.
Run being the first proper response for a employee or unarmed citizen.
The long time airing news show; Inside Edition, had a New York area security expert say you should; "hide" in a mall or active shooter incident. I disagree.
I've seen other critical incident videos by highly trained instructors who also say it's best to flee. You become a smaller target & may be harder to hit.

I'd agree that some victims may lose control of their bowels or may vomit due to stress but I'd be ready to haul Paul's balls if required.

CF
 
To each their own, but I'm thinking you're all smoking something funny along with a tinge of John Wayne fueled fantasy of how it's actually going to go down.

Having seen trained Infantryman freeze up in react-to-contact, 99% of you who have no formal training are going to quickly vacate your bowels into your pants (mostly figuratively but also literally in some cases).
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Really?

I know my ideas aren't very heroic, nor fit into people's John Wayne fantasies, yet having done a thing or two in regards to using weapons under pressure and stress, it would be a rare man who can pull it off, especially when confronted with an unexpected ambush.
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Many thoughts here are not intended as heroic, nor fantasy. There are many people here who have trained, and have carried guns into harms way. You are not the only one here to have operated in a dangerous stressful environment.

Speaking for myself, I feel that I have been trained quite well at great expense to the people by the GOV. I feel that being trained, equipt and prepared that I have a moral obligation to stop slaughter.

The last thing I'd do is try to take on an active-shooter (especially one armed with a rifle) with a handgun and only engage in gunplay as a last resort.
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A man has got to know his limitations.

FYI - Loss of control to bowls and/or bladder have nothing to do with fear. It is your bodies natural reaction and preparation for fight or flight. If you were as well trained as you profess you would know that.
 
A wide variety of soloutions here. As with everyone else... I have my own.

There are some people for whom their personal survival is of the highest priority. Nothing wrong with that... It's most human. There are others who have different priorities. Those who are willing to risk sacrificing themself for the better of their community or society. Some will expidite out of the danger zone... some will stand and give it their best shot.

No shame in either. I believe myself to be one of those who will stand and fight. If I have a gun I'll fight with the gun... if I have a knife that will have to do. The one thing I am equipped with is my belief that I will prevail... against any odds. I never enter a confrontation with a defeatist attitude. I dont believe I can win... I KNOW I CAN WIN!

If you practice hed shots... you will make head shots.
 
Avoiding blue-on-blue fratricide is hard enough when the good guys are wearing uniforms and the bad guys are wearing man-dresses. Imagine the professionals responding where everyone is a potential threat and there you are running around with your weapon. You're liable to get shot.

It's not about defeatist attitudes or anything else. It's understanding your limitations and that you're liable to make it worse by trying running to the sound of the guns.

Imagine if everyone in the Colorado Theater has been packing, they'd of been shooting each other right-and-left as nobody who knew who the bad guy was and he was smart using smoke to obscure his movements.

There's no one-size-fits-all answers to anything and maybe you'll save the day, but imagining that you're going to gloriously intervene is largely internet commando talk as opposed to a serious appraisal of what you're going to do.
 
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So the consensus is there might be a police officer in the vicinity so armed people should run and hide so they won't get killed trying to stop a bad man. They might as well stay home with their gun if they have to worry about that too. Bad guys is bad enough but now we have to worry about friendly fire? What if there is no policeman handy or if he just left his gun in the rest room, can we do something then or should we still run and hide and watch the doofus with a gun shoot people who are exposed. Should we take notes so we can be good witnesses? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Old Grump said:
...Bad guys is bad enough but now we have to worry about friendly fire?...
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Yes of course we have to worry about friendly fire. Undercover cops and other good guys have in fact been mistakenly shot or killed by LEOs. It is a real life concern.

And it's just one of the factors that make dealing with an active shooter a problematic activity.
 
Lets see, possibility of one or two people being wounded by friendly fire vs fifty people being shot down like dogs, I think I'd accept the risk.
 
ClydeFrog said:
The Ayoob clip wasn't that complex & the training drill was not slanted.
As Massad Ayoob explained, the students(all veteran LE trainers, armed professionals or military spec ops) had to take a older family member to the airport in a SUV & be ready to engage a threat at any time.
What the seminar members did not know was that a cadre was hidden under a pile of gear & bags. Only Ayoob and a medical professional who deals with LE, quickly IDed the threat(bad guy). That's out of 130 students.
A few students did engage the armed subject but were "killed". :(
Some did nothing & complied with the "bad guy". They were murdered at point blank range. Ayoob remarked that the training drill left a few of the seminar members with PTSD & mental health issues.
The video clip is worth viewing. Ayoob is a "straight shooter" & has taught 100s of armed citizens/sworn LE officers.

Clyde
Click to expand...
Can you provide the link?
 
Yes of course we have to worry about friendly fire. Undercover cops and other good guys have in fact been mistakenly shot or killed by LEOs. It is a real life concern.

And it's just one of the factors that make dealing with an active shooter a problematic activity.
Click to expand...
So leave the gun at home, bring camera, pen and notebook and bullet proof underwear.
 
Unless there happens to be a friendly policeman on the scene when the shooting starts you have 10-20 minutes if history is a lesson before the calvary arrives.

If an active shooter is dressed up like the last few, it should be fairly obvious WHO the BG is. I am going to engage anyway, that is not internet commando, that is old cop. Don't believe me? Don't care.
 
I think Alabamashooter pointed it out very well that these "points of interest" are speculative, unspecific and very anecdotal.
 
Avoiding blue-on-blue fratricide is hard enough when the good guys are wearing uniforms and the bad guys are wearing man-dresses.
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If you are talking about transvestites I can see where there would be a lot of confusion about who is who and what when people are not wearing gender appropriate clothing, especially if you are unused to such a situation.

If you are talking about dishdashas it is pretty insulting in Arab culture to call someone a transvestite when they are not.
 
"The last thing I'd do is try to take on an active-shooter (especially one armed with a rifle) with a handgun and only engage in gunplay as a last resort."

I would have thought encountering an active shooter constitutes a last resort situation.
 
"The last thing I'd do is try to take on an active-shooter (especially one armed with a rifle) with a handgun and only engage in gunplay as a last resort."

I would have thought encountering an active shooter constitutes a last resort situation.
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How many people does the active shooter have to shoot before you venture to do something about it or doesn't it matter as long as he isn't shooting at you or your family?
 
How many people does the active shooter have to shoot before you venture to do something about it or doesn't it matter as long as he isn't shooting at you or your family?
Click to expand...

That is a quandary is it not? People will have to make up their own minds about this.
 
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