Frank Ettin
Administrator
Oops, sorry. You're correct, and I goofed. I've fixed it.Seaman said:I think your last two quotes (above) are incorrectly attributed. Please edit.
Oops, sorry. You're correct, and I goofed. I've fixed it.Seaman said:I think your last two quotes (above) are incorrectly attributed. Please edit.
Ans: the same thing you would do if the same persons were to rush you in the same manner in any other outdoor location.Posted by Seaman: What should I do if a gang of perps have trespassed onto my property (backyard) and have been told to leave and are now 10 feet in front of me and are now rushing me?
If threatened by a perp (or perps) who have opened my gate and tresspassed into my fenced backyard, I do not draw my handgun, because I do not want to invoke a boatload of Murphy by brandishing, which btw is illegal here in Michigan.
First, I say 3 words in a loud firm voice : "STOP, GO BACK." If there is time I repeat the command. If they do not comply, I draw my CCW and fire. If my gun clears leather it goes boom.
It is rarely prudent to venture outside to investigate a noise.Posted by deepcreek: So about 2am I hear some noise and go out in the yard (large yard with a drive way and about 4 cars) with a 9mm hicap...
Forget getting something in writing unless it is consistent with Posts 7, 8, 16, 33, 42, 43, and 57. Short version: do not draw unless it is justified, and do not believe for a moment that just because you have drawn, you may lawfully fire.Posted by Seaman: I will see what I can do about getting something in writing from the appropriate authority.
Then search on "ADEE" and live by it.All I want to do is get safely to my bed and dream of beautiful women.
Then search on "ADEE" and live by it.
I've heard this bandied about before by untold number of anti rights persons - have any stats on how many lawful carriers do have their guns taken away from them? Please don't include police.deepcreek said:Many people carrying gun are not aggressive enough to use them and many people get them stripped away and used against them. Are you prepared to shoot an unarmed person who tries to strip your weapon?
13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition
A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
B. This section does not apply to a person who:
1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.
2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.
C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.
D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:
1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.
2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.
Silver00LT said:If you were man enough to pull the weapon on a threat you better be ready to use it.
If you study the history of the law, it was less the purported "usefulness" of defensive display than the perceived need to protect citizens from unjust prosecution for aggravated assault that led to its enactment.Posted by Armoredman: Defensive Display is useful enough that Arizona codified it into law.
OldMarksman said:A reasonable belief that physical force is necessary is a prerequisite, and the law does not mention drawing a firearm.
2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
If you don't mind, the AZ definitions, since we strayed off into this territory;OldMarksman said:A reasonable belief that physical force is necessary is a prerequisite, and the law does not mention drawing a firearm.
There are a couple of states that permit the actual presentation of a weapon under certain circumstances in which deadly force is not immediately necessary.
...14. "Deadly physical force" means force that is used with the purpose of causing death or serious physical injury or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of creating a substantial risk of causing death or serious physical injury.
32. "Physical force" means force used upon or directed toward the body of another person and includes confinement, but does not include deadly physical force.
A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
The distinction is primarily one of whether one may lawfully present--draw--a weapon. I would not want to contend that I could draw because I could expose or display a firearm or place my hand on it.Posted by Armoredman: So, using the AZ definitions, this law makes this state one of the ones you mention - it gives the right to display a weapon when there is no threat of DEADLY physical force, but it does require a threat of PHYSICAL force.
I don't know if it's been tested in court yet - it's still new.
If pulling the gun ends a threat (the assailant turns and runs, for example), you would not be justified in shooting. As Brian notes, laws differ on when you're justified in displaying a gun, but even in those where it's legal to display it only if lethal force would be justified, the point is that you should be prepared to use it, not that you must.