Tactical Jackalope
New member
A lot of people are forgetting that the attacker usually has the drop on us and clears the distance to be in our faces before we can even think of drawing. :/
Absolutely terrible advice and not legally supportable. The reasons have all been stated at length.Jammer Six said:...If you draw, open fire. Otherwise, don't draw.
Bad advice. If the threat retreats, and you still open fire, that could be a very expensive mistake.Jammer Six said:If you draw, open fire. Otherwise, don't draw.
Not in the scenario posited by the OP. So your comment is irrelevant.Constantine said:A lot of people are forgetting that the attacker usually has the drop on us and clears the distance to be in our faces before we can even think of drawing.
If you draw, open fire. Otherwise, don't draw.
Not in the scenario posited by the OP. So your comment is irrelevant.
Racking the slide indicates that you either have an empty chamber (bad idea) or that you're shucking a perfectly useful cartridge onto the deck (equally bad idea).But I would hope that these punks would "scatter" if I stood up and yelled "HOLD" and presented and racked the slide.
They might have the initiative in that they choose the time and place and begin that act; but they aren't always holding a gun on the erstwhile victim. So your statement is not true.Constantine said:...Bad guys always have the drop on us. There is no arguing that.
They might have the initiative in that they choose the time and place and begin that act; but they aren't always holding a gun on the erstwhile victim. So your statement is not true.
You're really not paying attention, nor are you being helpful.Constantine said:...OP should learn basic fight skills as well. It's not all about the gun either...
rmocarsky said:...We are over 60; neither of us can run. And I certainly am not Chuck Norris...
You're really not paying attention, nor are you being helpful.
Umm, no. Copying from your quote, Frank said "one should not pull a gun unless under the circumstances immediate use of the gun would be justified." That does not mean "In other words: if justified, draw and shoot." It means do not draw unless you can legally justify shooting.Seaman said:"One should not pull a gun unless under the circumstances the immediate use of the gun would be justified. But if upon presenting the gun the threat ends, e. g., the assailant turns and flees or immediately surrenders, one would not be justified in shooting. " [Frank Ettin]
immediate - 1. Occurring at once; instant.
In other words: "if justified, draw and shoot"
This is how I analyzed that issue (post 16):Spats McGee said:...I have seen it written on the internet (where, of course, everything MUST be true . . . ) that if you draw your firearm on someone but don't shoot them, then you can be charged with brandishing. Without doing a great deal of research on the issue, I have to say that I find it improbable. Is it impossible? No. I do think it unlikely, though...
Frank Ettin said:The usual definition of assault, based on the Common Law is:an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.
In the laws of some States this crime might be given another name. For example, in Alabama it's called "menacing." But by whatever name it is called, it is a crime in every State.
So a display of a firearm, when done for the purposes of intimidation or to secure compliance, is, in all States, an assault of some type. You are effectively putting someone in fear of an imminent harmful or offensive contact, i. e., getting shot.
Now in all States it will be a defense against a charge of assault (or any similar crime) if you establish that your assault satisfied the applicable legal standard for justification.
In most States the standard for justifying a threat of lethal force is the same as for justifying the use of lethal force in self defense. In a few, it's a somewhat lesser standard. So in all States if you threaten lethal force you will need to be able to at least show prima facie such threat was legally justified, that is if you want to avoid a conviction for assault.
Just to clarify, Brian in no way implied anything about you personally. He posited two hypothetical statements, attributed to no one, and characterized the statements as stupid. What he wrote exactly was:Seaman said:...As for Mr. Pfleuger's comments, it does no good to infer people are 'stupid.'...
Brian Pfleuger said:...The extremes are "I carry a gun to scare people because I wouldn't ever be able to shoot someone." and "If I clear leather, lead is going to fly."
Frankly, both are stupid.