Encounter with police

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I'm a SASS member: Willie is my SASS nom-de-guerre...

Glad you picked up on it though. Kids these days have no clue about Willie the Actor.... :cool:

Smile, we're all here to learn from each other. Maybe a few LEO's can learn from me.


Willie

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I thought to myself, "Maybe the CA cops thought you were a bank robber." With a name like W.S., it could be an honest mistake. ;)
 
The thing about law enforcement is that you have to have common sense and be able to see deeper into situations to be able to ask the right questions to find out the real story.

I dont know the particulars of why a group of 8 officers stopped you. It sounds like it might have been some sort of stake out at the hotel and there was something about your behavior which triggered a response. While I dont know those particular officers, I can guess those officers probably grew up in and around that community. They patrol that community everyday and there are probably weekly, if not daily, meetings and discussions of what goes on there. I can hazard a guess that the officers know exactly what goes on in that hotel and can articulate exact reasons for the stop. As how the system works, however, those officers cannot come to this forum to defend their actions. The only place where they are legally required to defend their actions is in a court of law and I am certain if they were brought there they would be able to articulate in great detail. Who knows, maybe they might have been looking for someone in the military because of thefts at the base...

I wouldnt take offense for being stopped. Sometimes we behave in a manner which stirs some suspicion. There was one time in my life where I was lost and had to turn around several times and so I was stopped by an officer to ask what I was doing. I didnt feel offended, but I understood and it did look unusual for someone to be constantly looping around looking and acting confused.

I do know the northeast quite well and can tell you that if there was any suspicious activity at an area hotel then they would do the exact same thing as the officers on the west coast. They would basically stake out the hotel looking for suspicious behavior and confront those who they feel might be committing a crime.
 
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"The thing about law enforcement is that you have to have common sense and be able to see deeper into situations to be able to ask the right questions to find out the real story"

Nobody bothered to ask: My plea to show my ID and paperwork was laughed at: "We'll find it all when we search your wallet" as they all laughed at the handcuffed pilot laying on his belly in a parking lot with a gun aimed at his head. No common sense, no attempt to do the right thing... I was just non-human scum to them at that moment, completely dehumanized in their view, not worthy of even being able to offer ID. At least in SERE school we knew the cadre was acting (we escaped, BTW)



"I do know the northeast quite well and can tell you that if there was any suspicious activity at an area hotel then they would do the exact same thing as the officers on the west coast. They would basically stake out the hotel looking for suspicious behavior and confront those who they feel might be committing a crime."


I can tell you that they would not have done so with drawn weapons... "Take that to the bank" says Willie... :D

Make all of the excuses you like, this one incident, legal or not, made a lifelong "non-supporter" of the PBA out of me. I will never give undeserved respect to a police officer. I will comply with their requests, but only out of fear... take that to the bank too. By fear we are controlled. It worked for me.


To your question: Sorry, Officer: I have a firm policy of not answering any questions. Your colleagues in California taught me that. May I leave now or am I being detained?


Willie

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Willie: I feel your pain, I've had that happen a few times in CA. SOME of the CA. Police think they're John Wayne. But Inglewood?? real high crime rate there. I have three friends that were robbed there at gunpoint, not a good place to be,and believe me your not the type of people they generaly deal with. I'm not backing that action,I just understand why after living in So.Cal.
 
"Willie: I feel your pain, I've had that happen a few times in CA. SOME of the CA. Police think they're John Wayne. But Inglewood?? real high crime rate there. I have three friends that were robbed there at gunpoint, not a good place to be,and believe me your not the type of people they generaly deal with. I'm not backing that action,I just understand why after living in So.Cal."


Yeah... so it was explained to me by the shift supervisor after it was all done, and I was making my complaint to him about the treatment I received. But even so... and after just taking the Orbitz advice about closest and best hotel to LAX... give me a break.... there are other ways to stop someone and ask "are you lost" while really wanting to know "W T F are you doing here?" I fly out of Burbank now when I need to get to Edwards AFB, it's closer anyhow.


Capt. Obvious: I'm torn between (A) defending my honor and (B) sticking to my firm policy of not answering questions asked by strangers. I'll compromise by sending you my Linkedin profile by private message. Consider it a gift, not an obligation. We probably have mutual friends. Feel free to PM, it's gauche to make such a challenge in public.

Truly also, consider my posts a gift to help LEO's not make the same mistakes that these guys made. No reason at all to take someone who is basically inclined to like LEO's and make a lifelong skeptic out of him. I'm one of the good guys, one of the ones you are paid to protect, or so I had always believed.


Willie

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I bet if I was to post a story about some cop rescuing a child who was trapped in a vehicle after an accident, the topic would turn into a cop bashing convention.

It don't take much smarts while reading these topics to figure out which ones always seem to flunk the Hello Test.
 
I used to do a good amount of traveling up
and down the Maine turnpike early in the am
(from Mass to Bangor then up the Airline to Calais).
I got stopped many times.
One thing I do is always turn map lights and
the dome light on and it gets appreciated.
ron
Click to expand...

Hadn't thought of that. Its probably an excellent idea.
 
My grandmother, little old lady who has never been involved in any sort of illegal activity, who wouldn't even let me pick up a dollar from the street because it "wasn't mine if I hadn't earned it" doesn't trust or like cops and won't let them past the front steps without a warrant. Now why would someone who has no reason whatsoever to fear arrest or anything like that from police, be so distrusting of them?

I don't think they're all bad, I've met and dealt with some very cool cops. Unfortunately the stories of their abuses outshine and outweigh the stories of whatever good they do.
 
Sometimes the police just get it horribly wrong.

Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr., a 68-year-old African-American Marine veteran, was fatally shot in November by White Plains, NY, police who responded to a false alarm from his medical alert pendant. The officers broke down Chamberlain’s door, tasered him, and then shot him dead. Audio of the entire incident was recorded by the medical alert device in Chamberlain’s apartment. We’re joined by family attorneys and Chamberlain’s son, Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr., who struggles through tears to recount his father’s final moments, including the way police officers mocked his father’s past as a marine. "For them to look at my father that way, (with) no regard for his life, every morning I think about it," he says
Click to expand...
http://tucsoncitizen.com/three-sono...t-deaths-in-tusd-trayvon-tragedies-in-tucson/

I suppose it was Chamberlain's fault for not behaving in a deprecating manner.
You'd think when police make a well being check, they might decide force was off the table. If you thought that you'd be wrong.

Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, "Don't Taze my granny!" an El Reno police officer told another cop to "Taser her!" and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman "took a more aggressive posture in her bed," according to the complaint.
Click to expand...
http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm

"Took a more aggressive posture in her bed" Reasonable cause to taze the old girl. At least she wasn't one of the growing number of taser deaths.

Sometimes the police are just going to kill you. Google ,unarmed man shot by police, and you get 2 1/2 million hits.
 
zincwarrior said:
Hadn't thought of that. Its probably an excellent idea.
Click to expand...

The dome/map light idea is a great one. Some others would be to roll the window down while you are stoping the vehicle. Know where the registration and insurance card to your vehicle is, and keep it together in a handy location, such as maybe clipped to the visor, or I personally keep mine partially stuck in the plastic trim above the drivers door at the head liner, so that if I am stoped, I dont worry an officer by reaching around or digging for it.

Other ideas, are just pretty common sense that sometimes we get busy and forget. Keep the lights working. Enure your tag is clean, visable, and the tag light does indeed work. If you drive a pick up, or are pulling an open trailer, keep any debris picked up, because if it blows/falls out on to the road it can be a reason to be stopped.

Another thought for those who have concealed carry permits (or whatever your state calls it) is to keep the concealed carry permit behind your license, and keep both somewhere easy to get to, and also, of course, keep in the habit of ensuring you have it with you when you go out.

Where to keep your hands on a traffic stop? You can keep them on the steering wheel, or if the window is down, comfortably as possible lay them on the door so the officer may see them as he walks up to your car. Or try at least keep them easily visable in some matter. it may be a good idea if possible to have your registration, license, concealed carry permit, etc in your visable hands as well. If you dont know where they are, or if they are in a compartment, tell the officer, and ask, "may I open the glove box (or whatever place it is in) and get it for you?" Dont just reach over and start opening things.

The reasons why I have responded to this thread and others similar, have been to try to help others maybe understand, to share ideas, to let some people know there are officers willing to try to help when/how they are able, also to help myself try to improve on my skills in dealing with some folks who may be leary, or dislike law enforcement for whatever reason, and to try to understand those who may have had a bad experience in the past, so perhaps maybe I can better relate to them if I come accross a person like this at work.

I hope everyone here has a wonderful day!
 
To be honest, if someone said registration I'd have a blank look on my face (my Wife would proffer thats normal ;) ). We have the registration sticker on the driver side, and insurance. I don't think Texas has a separate registration thats normally required to be carried.

Its been awhile (knock on wood).

I worry about my teenage boy in this regard. He's a band geek with band geeks, but you never know what can happen. :(
 
True, you never can know what may happen.

A couple of other tips for ya'll too. If you have an experience with law enforcement for which you want to make a complaint against an officer, try not to play the one up game by telling the officer you are going to make a complaint, or trying to argue to that point. When you are free to leave, go by the agency's nearest office as soon as you are able with in reason. If you were charged, having the documents with you, as they, at least here, will have date, time, officer/agency info, etc. If its a verbal warning or similar, take a note of the time, and ask for the officers name/number and the agency. This can be done generally without trying to be arguementative. When you are free to leave stop somewhere up the road and write down this info as its generally better then trying to remember it.

If its an unmarked vehicle, late at night etc, the majority of the agencies I have been around, including my own, have no issue with the driver slowing down, and proceding to a near-by, but well lit area. It can be a good idea to also turn on your 4-way flashers as well.
 
Slick Willie, you paint a broad stroke with your brush, based on your encounter with a handful of officers. There are over 800,000 LEO's in the U.S.

On the other hand, my guess is that the Jet Blue passengers don't think much of pilots in general either.
 
What I first learned is that cops treat citizens like suspects because 1 out of 1000 is a criminal, wants to harm the cop, and that the only way for them to stay safe is to treat everyone as a threat. They treat the people they interact with like threats until they drive away. That's understandable: It's just good tactics likely.

What I then added to that knowlage was that I need to do the same thing: I need to treat all cops that I come into contact with like someone who will trample my rights in order to do whatever they have been ordered to do. 1 out of a 1000? Same odds. They are all threats to me until they prove otherwise... by getting back in their car and driving away. Those are my tactics now. I learned them from the police.


What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe it is 1 out of 1000. Cops don't accept those risks... neither do I.


I don't want to be a lightning rod here, I'm a relaxed good guy and basically LIKE cops from a cultural standpoint and from the standpoint of what they SHOULD be trying to accomplish in society. But I cannot risk my freedom on the wishful thinking that they are all good, or that all departments are honest departments. I have, to my own peril, found otherwise.

I'm going to step out of the discussion now, as its not productive. My entire point was to try to articulate why some people choose to run from the cops. it's not always that they are criminals: Sometimes the cops have taught people to fear them more than being punished for running if they are caught. Just food for thought.


Willie

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It's all good... sense of humor unscathed. Friends greeted, and enemies waved at.

Willie the Actor... what a guy, eh? Everybody liked him, unlike me... ;)

Best,


Willie "not the actor"
 
Not a problem Willie...

At times we all have opinions and ideas that may be great, or may rub others the wrong way. The discussion has been friendly, at least my view of it.

Also, no problem being a lightning rod...That is unless your grounded properly as well. I think we can all become a lightning rod at times. I hope you took nothing personally. I for one, did not infer that, only enjoyed the friendly discussion.

All, enjoy your evening
 
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