Encounter with police

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just be prepared to defend yourself is the fuzz tries to murder you.
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Acting on this attitude (from your first post) is the quickest and most reliable way to get to the situation in your second post:

Courts don't help YOU if you're already dead.
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Generally if "the fuzz tries to murder you" there's a pretty good reason for it. There are rare instances of officer chasing down innocent individuals and killing them in cold blood, but it's more common by several orders of magnitude for officers to kill someone who either (1) is armed and aggressive or (2) somehow presents a perceived immediate threat.

Most of us on this thread are talking about how to avoid the second one, since that's how innocent people get killed.
 
Of course the TV news focuses on the scary and tragic. It always has. Anything else is not news. But one thing that has changed is 24-hour news. Think of it: news all day long. But there isn't enough news to go around, in a manner of speaking. So you live in Florida and hear about school bus accidents in Oregon. It is information overkill.

However, just as we might remember bad things it is just as likely we remember the good things and overlook the bad. That's called looking at the past through rose colored glasses and I see evidence of that all the time here. Things were grand and glorious at some point in the past and it's been downhill ever since. The question is merely whether the year was 1910, 1928, 1957 or 1965.
 
But to return to the topic at hand, do people think policemen may have changed since we were kids in the 1950s? Or did we change?
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Bluetrain,

Police officers have changed alot since the 1950's. What people sometimes seem to forget is that the officers are roughly a cross section of the community (that can pass the background, etc). Back in the 50's officers I understand were more easy going, and relaxed. The officers had respect, and gave respect. The 60's brought up alot of riots and unrest that kind of turned one group (demonstrators/rioters) against the other group (officers), and it was done regularly during this time. Also, the 60's brought a questioning of authority that still stands to this day in ways. Locally back in the 70's is when we had alot of officers killed, these officers I mention, were all shot and killed on duty.

That changed a good bit of things. Many of the officers then were korean and vietnam vets, as well some local folks who due to age were between the drafts, or were uneligible to be drafted. When these officers were killed, the other officers became more safety concious and also more forceful.

I could go on and on, but I think both sides have changed, both for good and bad in some ways.

This is just my opinion, so feel free to enjoy your own. May the force be with you in your universe, and have a by golly wonderful day!!! :)
 
I suppose it is wishful thinking to imagine that things only changed recently. Things are always changing. I hope that remembering the police when we were small as friendly and helpful, and maybe even easygoing, is not a figment of our memories. It's really hard to say.

But you're correct about the events since then and how they affected attitudes, not just those of the police. It does not follow, however, that everyone's attitude towards the police changed. That's equally hard to call. Whether or not officers are more representative of the community or a cross section of the community is an arguable point. I have my doubts but it probably depends a lot of which community we speak of. In more expensive parts of the country, policemen often actually live outside of the community they work in. That has not gone unnoticed but it certainly makes you wonder about just how much of a cross section there really is. I don't imagine there have ever been many rich policemen, however, Burke's Law notwithstanding.
 
I had a situation when I was about 15 where the police were called. 6 friends and I were playing airsoft and the police were called. They showed up, saw our guns and in turn drew theirs. I slowly put my plastic slinger on the ground, took 3 steps back, and laid down with my fingers laced on the back of my head. All my friends did the same. We were frisked, and I notified them that I had an airsoft pistol in my tac vest, it was removed and then the boys in blue and the laugh of their lives.

They told us that they recieved a call saying that multiple people armed with "machine guns" were running around shooting at eachother. One of the police even shothis leg with my pistol. They told us to go home and play in the woods next time. I learned two things from that.
1. Remain calm and do EXACTLY as you are told.
2. Don't ever, ever assume that someone knows an airsoft gun is not a real gun.
 
Just an observation for LEO's:

Don't refer to the public as "civilians": Unless you serve in the military, YOU are a representative of civil authority, and are very much a civilian too.

The "them and us" barrier needs to be dropped if you want to earn the respect of the public. Don't build an emotional fence keeping you away from the people you serve. Thinking and saying publicly "civilians" brings you to the mindset that you are not a civilian but somehow have a different set of rules to follow. And never forget that you serve US, not the other way around. Show respect to gain respect.



Willie

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Willie Sutton said:
Just an observation for LEO's:

Don't refer to the public as "civilians": Unless you serve in the military, YOU are a representative of civil authority, and are very much a civilian too.

The "them and us" barrier needs to be dropped if you want to earn the respect of the public. Don't build an emotional fence keeping you away from the people you serve. Thinking and saying publicly "civilians" brings you to the mindset that you are not a civilian but somehow have a different set of rules to follow. And never forget that you serve US, not the other way around. Show respect to gain respect.

Willie
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I'm not trying to be confrontational, I really am not. But after reading your post on this thread, and rereading my own post in the thread as well, I dont see where I am putting up the "them and us' barrier" nor have I mentioned "civilians." I mentioned that I am a police officer, as well as one other person here said they were an offficer, and one other poster here mentioned he was a previous officer, and thats all I saw mention of being in law enforcement. I also stated some personal opinions and experience in the best way I could think to word it at the time.

I have tried the best I could to avoid the issues you mentioned when I composed my post, I have tried to also participate, and join in on the discussion, instead of being in a fence away from the issue. I have also been trying to give respect as well.

As an officer, I have conciously tried to remove this barrier in my professional business with the general public as well. As yet, the "them and us" barrier still exists since others still see this line when I try to communicate with them honestly, and doing my best to remove any barrier that I am able.

Perhaps you can shed some light on where I went wrong?

Not really trying to pick you out, since you probably are grouping all officers in a group. I try to break through these wall/barriers/fences/etc, but no matter in what way, or how hard I try, they remain.

Please no offense intended at all. Just honest discussion
 
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There are definitely things I don't like about the way policing is done now in the "modern age", but it's mostly political and institutional complaints and nothing to do with the people doing the job. Even so, I can't believe that there's actually people here who think cops are gonna try to trick you into making the wrong move just so thay can get a chance to shoot you. I really hope that was just trolling.
 
We recently voted in a new county Sheriff which seems to have changed the outlook of the organization. No more black BDU's and drogleg holsters. Now the deputies are wearing white, blue, or brown uniform type shirts and khakis or jeans.
I know the new Sheriff personally, know his Dad, went to school with his wife, and know some of the deputies personally(same with old one, too). The Gestapo look is gone. My daughter was a dispatcher for the old department and I had lots of info on their practices which I wasn't too happy with. A couple of the older deputies lost their position and that was probably a good thing since I think they were having more control over the operation of the unit than the old Sheriff.
The local police chief is very selfcentered and egotistic-thinks he is better than everyone else. I wouldn't trust him to "do the right thing" if another way suited his purpose. I caught him running a STOP sign a while back for no reason other than he was in the city cop car and knew no one would correct him. I won't say he would shoot a person outright but I would not get in the way of his agenda unless I really wanted to find out.
 
I am not sure about america but here a police officer got his pistol out of his holster without good reason he could be reported. Stopping and approaching a car would not be geed reason. Unless you put an officers life in danger then i don't see that he would have a reason to shoot you. Not falling his instructions is not a good reason.
 
When I get pulled over I roll down the window and put my hands on the wheel at 10 and 2 with my license and CHL in my hand, and it's yes sir, or no sir to their questions.
Officer Fishing Cabin: as a "civilian" I thank you for your service,and every other LEO that puts their life on the line every day for me, and thank you for your rational coments on the subject.
There's a lot of discussions on here about how to get out of a bad situation,and I guess people forget that we can run away,but the LEOS have to run towards it! I thank Peace Officers for their service, just as I thank combat veterns. They both put their lives on the line every day for us.
 
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I used to do a good amount of traveling up
and down the Maine turnpike early in the am
(from Mass to Bangor then up the Airline to Calais).
I got stopped many times.
One thing I do is always turn map lights and
the dome light on and it gets appreciated.
ron
 
I was not making reference to any poster here when I made my "civilian" comments, certainly not to the gentleman who replied above, and a private message was sent expressing this. All I was doing was to comment on the militarization of policing: Put a guy in a military type uniform, issue him a "carbine", and then tell him that anyone could be a terrorist and we have a police state. It's more true in some places than in others: prudence dictates that I expect it to be "worse" and not "better" when I come into contact with an unknown LEO. Show respect to gain respect: That's a two way street.


Willie

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There are definitely things I don't like about the way policing is done now in the "modern age", but it's mostly political and institutional complaints and nothing to do with the people doing the job. Even so, I can't believe that there's actually people here who think cops are gonna try to trick you into making the wrong move just so thay can get a chance to shoot you. I really hope that was just trolling.
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That's exactly what happened in Las Vegas as people were evacuating a Costco a year or two ago. I doubt that the trap was intentional, but not sure that matters now to Erik Scott or his surviving family.
 
Willie,

No offense taken or meant. You actually brought up a couple of good points with your post, which was why I ask in a way "how to bring down the wall" so to speak. As an officer its a constant battle, not only to ensure that you dont misspeak and alienate some folks by pure accident, but also to keep that wall/barrier/etc down to as small as possible. While I do understand your point of the Us vs them, the flip side is of a regular person dealing with an officer is the fear of an officer due to the officer's enforcement powers. I hope you and others understand both sides as I do.

In closing though, I do enjoy a friendly debate, took no offense, and did not intend any toward you. Sometimes its great to have a friendly chat on "how to do things" and get other ideas...No harm

The best to you and others on this forum.

Enjoy the wonderfully warm, brightly sunny, and incredibly awesome day! :)
 
Again... I'd advise folks to speak to the police as you would want then to speak to you. One reason the police refer to non police as civilians because the police organzations are considered quasi-military. Quasi-Military to insure order and discipline within the organization.

Of course the police are a civil authority, and when compared to the US military are civilians.

As a retired officer after many years I find it increasingly difficult to deal with the modern American Police officer. They seem to have a different mindset, and mission statement than when I was on patrol. It seems that the police try to wear the most intimidating uniforms, and equipment they can find. It seems the put officer safety ahead of public safety and public order. It seems that a friendly helpfull attitude has been replaced with sullen, threatening, and negative attitude with no reguard for the CIVILIAN they are dealing with. They seem to put the welfare of an animal ahead of a human (police dogs). K-9 Officer? whaaa?? how do they get the dog to swear an oath?

Sorry I didnt mean to go off on a rant.
 
There is such a variety of police departments across the country that it is hard to generalize. The County Sheriffs seem to be entirely different in every way. In fact, they tend to even dress differently. Ironically, there is a world-wide trend for the police everywhere to dress roughly the same, with all blue uniforms. The police in some places traditionally wore green, for instance.

I never thought of local police departments as being quasi-military. They don't look like and they don't act like it. Curiously, no one has mentioned so far, I think, the various state police departments. They are often very much quasi-military. In some places, the state police office is referred to as a barracks and they do tend to be used as the governor's police reserve, in a manner of speaking. But you would still behave the same way no matter who stopped you.

I've heard policemen use the expression "citizen."
 
"One reason the police refer to non-police as civilians because the police organzations are considered quasi-military'


That's the problem: THEY consider themselves to be quasi-military when in fact they are civil *servants* serving the *citizens* who pay the bills.

Two observations, from two different viewpoints:

(1): We the citizens don't think so well of being policed by people who think even partially that they are "military" and we are "civilians". We're all on the same side here (or ought to be).

(2): We who serve in the military don't like cops referring to folks "others than them" as "civilians" either... you're a civilian unless you are bearing arms against *foreign enemies* or preparing to do so, and work for the DOD. Even the Coast Guard are "civilians". Department of Homeland Security does not count either.


Way too many patrol-car commandos these days with departments that are spending DHS grant money on (fill in the blank and add "tactical" to every word in the advertisements that they read). That brings out the mindset that they are soldiers, not just patrol cops. Us v/s Them... a story as old as the first guy who had more power than the guy next to him.



Willie

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You may be right (far right, maybe) but is it the fault of the police?

We have had the tendency over the last few decades to describe things as "wars," when they are merely social and sometimes law enforcement objectives or programs. From the war on poverty (we lost) to the war on drugs (we also lost), everything is called a war.

If all of those things are wars, who's the enemy? Maybe it all started when we called real shooting wars "police actions." What a twist!

Personally, I still don't see it in our local police departments and I think you are mostly overstating your case.
 
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