Egomaniacal instructors

he has a point! They will never be Marines! That does not make them a reject just have not had the training we have. As for him painting with a broad brush he sure does. If he knew what it was all about he would not talk that way. I will take a Gunny with combat under his belt any day over Ayoob or what ever that guys name is. I know how the Gunny will act and he will be with me come hell or high water. I would bet my life on it time and time again. That is the guy i want to train from he has been there! Yes Military are different. We have to be.
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I accompanied a couple, who are friends with my wife and myself, to one of these hotdog, expensive training schools. Couple of the instructors came out, introduced themselves and regaled us with all their qualifications, teaching experience and how many "SEALs, Green Berets, Delta operators, Air Force parajumpers, Rangers, SWAT teams, task forces, HRT, USMS SOG, et al" they've trained.

I asked them one question: "That's all fine and dandy, but what have YOU done on the battlefied or street when it counted?"

Silence.

Then the predictable "Well, that's not what's important, what's important is. . ." blah blah blah.

We left.

Good instructors impress you with good instruction, solid techniques and honest answers--even if those answers occasionally include the words, "I don't know."

Bad instructors try to impress you with fancy "tactical" words and phrases, name-dropping and credentials.

That's why if at all possible, I'll refer a military/LE instructor who's smelled gunsmoke and lived to tell about it over one who hasn't. They have a perspective that is simply not possible to have without having experienced what they have.

Jeff
 
I always have to laugh when I hear someone say "Rob Leatham might be great on the 'sqaure range' but put him on the street and he aint sh**!" What a crock, as if by some magical power his shooting ability fades if he isn't on the range.
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I know of a reserve CWO who shot on the Marine Corps pistol team, who missed a guy at under 10 meters with his M9. The guy was an awesome shot at the range, normally shot in the 398-400 range out 400 on qualification, but throw some stress in, the guy shooting back and moving and even the best shots loose allot of their ability.
 
Lurper wrote:

The sentence should stop there. I always have to laugh when I hear someone say "Rob Leatham might be great on the 'sqaure range' but put him on the street and he aint sh**!" What a crock, as if by some magical power his shooting ability fades if he isn't on the range. I've beat Rob on occasion, but I'd rather face any Gunny anytime than face Rob in a gunfight.
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lol. I know what you are saying, and I wasn't trying to imply that at all. But that being said, alot of your "civilian" shooters I could see having trouble in a "military engagement" scenario. Its all different there. I think the mindset would be affected so as to affect the ability to use the ability as it were....:cool:

(if you follow all that I'm truely impressed, cuz I'm not even sure I do!) :D:D:D
 
When the feecal matter hits the blades i will take the guy with combat training. You have to be able to think under extreme stress and be able to opperate. Rob Latham is a hell of a shot and i would not want to face him in a gun fight!!! On the same hand if i had to go into a gun fight i would rather go with the Gunny! I know for damn sure he is not going to run when it gets thick! Gun skills are only one part of the package, very important but only one part
 
I will take a Gunny with combat under his belt any day over Ayoob or what ever that guys name is.
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I'm always a little uncomfortable when folks heap praise upon "combat vets".

The very phrase "combat vet" can mean a whole lot of different things....
The combat vet could be a true warrior in every sense of the word; someone who has survived numerous battles and who has met and destroyed the enemy time and time again.
Or it could mean the guy who was in a combat theater but was never actually under enemy fire.

Take the Field Artillery for example.....traditionally, when it come to ground forces (especially before the invention of aircraft), few folks killed more of the enemy than the artillery....that's why Arty is still called the "king of the battle" even today....but in quite a few battles the red-legs themselves were not in direct danger, especially when they were hammering an enemy force that did not have artillery of their own to return fire.

And what about those on the receiving end of the artillery barrage?
Many a Soldier and many a Marine are considered "combat vets" simply because they survived such a barrage.
But all they did was dig in, and hold on, and were lucky enough to not get killed.

And some combat vets did see and kill the enemy and survive the battle, but not necessarily because they were great warriors themselves, but because they were just lucky enough to be in the company of some truely great warrior comrades when the battle erupted.

Now don't misunderstand me....I'm certainly not bashing combat vets, or even those military personnel who never had the chance to be in combat.
What I'm saying is this: just because someone is a "combat vet", they don't instantly win my trust or admiration.
And there are many cops on the streets who have experienced far worse than many "combat vets".


EasyG
(and yes, I'm a "combat vet")
 
Why does it seem like more than a few "name" instructors have inordinately large, or even massive, egos?
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Without those massive egos, the sheer pressure and stress of getting in front of all of us and spouting on and on about how they will turn us into combat-ready anti-terrorists, along with the constant rejection and ridicule from people who don't buy into their fear-mongering, would crush their psyches. Of course there are enough people who will pay these trainers massive amounts of cash and sing their praises that any rejection is seen as us being misguided.
 
easyg wrote:

Now don't misunderstand me....I'm certainly not bashing combat vets, or even those military personnel who never had the chance to be in combat. What I'm saying is this: just because someone is a "combat vet", they don't instantly win my trust or admiration. And there are many cops on the streets who have experienced far worse than many "combat vets".
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I think I have to agree with that whole-heartedly. (As well as most of the rest of your message for that matter)

I myself personally know veterans who hardly ever even held a rifle, let alone lept naked over baracades, knife in teeth, facing down the hordes. (although I know a few of those too! well, maybe not the naked part. :D)

That being said, to blindly place your life in the hands of ANYONE, based on your perceived notion of their ability, is taking a huge risk. Give me a guy who I KNOW FOR A FACT, that if he gets the shot, he will put the BG down post haste. Vet, cop, or armchair warrior.

I'm a combat vet myself, but I'm no Mack Bolan. (thats for you 70's guys) :D
I'm no Spartan either. I WILL RETREAT, if me or mine is not in immediate danger to do so. I will save them at any cost, call me what you will. Now, if the only way they live is if I stand and take whatever comes, while they run, then there I stand. God Himself would have to move me. But now I blather on....:p
 
Does he know that we're not allowed to cuss at all in a class? One of my fellow instructors at work was critiqued by a student because he used the word "crap" in his class when he was talking about "nomenclature, characteristic and all that other crap".
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Are you kidding me? Crap, between "zero tolerance" and "political correctness" I don't know which is going to be first to destroy this country.

I haven't taken any premium classes but, my CCW instructor was, I thought, a little tyrannical in that he screamed at us to keep quiet while he was giving personal instruction to a single student, using words like "teaching kindergarten." Most of us were zooming through the class as we weren't learning much more than we already knew through various knowledge bases like this or previous classes. Lets face it, probably most of us simply need the signed paper and new laws that have taken effect, many not even the latter when they keep up on such things. You are not going to keep a class of >100 perfectly quiet when they are not even hearing what is being said. As I saw the instructor in later years after the class, he was a quite decent guy with valuable information on tap for the asking. I later chalked the class up to just one of his bad days. It's possible that some or many of these instructors are simply having bad days. After all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and criticism seems far louder than praise in any aspect of life. Just a thought.

Personally, I would love to attend one of Mas Ayoob's classes. Maybe someday.
 
Well, I can assure you that Andy Stanford is most certainly NOT one of the egomaniacal types you describe - and I've been a student in several who are just as you describe.

In fact, Andy does NOT self-proclaim to be one of the "high speed, low drag" types yet he is a phenomenal instructor. I call him an "Earth Man" as opposed to the "Super Men" who I sense are rather dark souls. Don't get me wrong, I actively seek their experience, too, but I dispose of the "attitude" which ranges from bigotry, arrogance, pride and delusion for some that I've experienced and from others which I received second hand.

I think I've said enough. Carry on.
 
I had the opportunity to meet Jerry Miculek at a S&W Day event at my local toy store. He stated he was from Lafayette, LA and I told him I was from Baton Rouge, LA. We sat and talked off and on for several hours. When he asked what I liked and why he figured I was an engineer and we began to speak design features, etc and we spoke for an hour. He's a topnotch guy.

Lurper, I'd love to spend time with you, too, man. I think you'd have lots to tell! And I'd be all ears! :thumbsup:
 
Talkin about 'egomaniacs'.

I had a current trainer and former swat person say he shotgunned a guy to death and went home, drank a Corona and slept like a baby.

Now, that's a goofball.
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Why is that, I haven't felt any remorse for the people I shot or blew up. Some people do, some don't. If you are wired that way, it is just the way you are.
 
If you are wired that way, it is just the way you are.
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Gimme a break; shotgunned a guy to death and went home, drank a Corona and slept like a baby.

Too much machismo there. I say his 'wires' are crossed.....
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Nothing weird about it at. Just because some people are just sensitive about killing doesn't mean we all are. But the bottom line is neither you, nor I know the full circumstances and there are high percentage of guys out there that just deserve to die.
 
It's of a specific demographic, for cops they tend to run into those people more than the rest of us.
 
Why is that, I haven't felt any remorse for the people I shot or blew up. Some people do, some don't.
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Well said. In spite of the media and other sources, lots of folkls don't feel remorse for doing what is necessary. I only felt bad once ater a shooting, and that was that it was rather senseless and involved a kid. No need for it, but the kid panicked and forced something simple to turn into a bad situation. Sorta sad. Everybody else--no problems on my end!
 
It's been said that the remorseless, badass type people are actually showing the signs of an anti-social personality disorder, a mental illness.

Surely a current trainer and former swat person who proudly says that he shotgunned a guy to death, then went home, drank a Corona and slept like a baby fits into that mold.

It's just not normal or emotionally healthy to have 'no remorse' for ending a life...any life. Self defense, survival, kill or be killed merely mitigates the issues that we combat veterans live with.
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Sorry SkyGuy, but that is BS.
Cirillo never felt any remorse for killing bad guys and my dad's only remorse in WW2 is that he did not get to kill even more Germans than he did.
 
It's just not normal or emotionally healthy to have 'no remorse' for ending a life...any life. Self defense, survival, kill or be killed merely mitigates the issues that we combat veterans live with.
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With respect, you're wrong, podna. Whether it offends your sensibilities or not, some deaths should be celebrated and the killer honored.

Violence on it's face is not inherrently evil.

Complacency in the face of evil is.
 
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