Don't trust rentals
- Thread starter Doc Holliday 1950
- Start date
Bill DeShivs
New member
Mechanically it's nearly impossible to miss a target that size at 8 feet.
The bullet would have to exit the barrel at an angle to miss.
This has to be user error.
Even shooting 9mm in a .40 wouldn't cause it.
The bullet would have to exit the barrel at an angle to miss.
This has to be user error.
Even shooting 9mm in a .40 wouldn't cause it.
IMightBeWrong
New member
Bill,
You've basically said what I want to say, but there's a special form of political correctness in the gun community where it's discouraged to tell people they need to improve (or to say anything negative about a gun that somebody bought for that matter). People don't like negativity. But I'm fully in agreement. I'm convinced there's an issue of trigger press here that has been compensated for with grip technique for the Glock 19 and revolvers and that it's been exposed because the same amount of grip isn't be applied to these smaller pistols with less to hold onto. I think this is the problem because in the past I have been guilty of this. I used to jerk the trigger but my grip was good so the movement was minimized, kind of like putting a pistol in a vice and tightening it as much as possible and then whacking the trigger with a broom handle. It's still going to make accurate hits, but it's not fundamentally sound. I fixed it with the advice I gave earlier. Hopefully Doc will look into my advice and improve, even if he doesn't admit he checked it out or thank me for trying to help. I don't need my ego stroked, I just want more of the gun community to be more informed.
Thanks for the honest reply.
You've basically said what I want to say, but there's a special form of political correctness in the gun community where it's discouraged to tell people they need to improve (or to say anything negative about a gun that somebody bought for that matter). People don't like negativity. But I'm fully in agreement. I'm convinced there's an issue of trigger press here that has been compensated for with grip technique for the Glock 19 and revolvers and that it's been exposed because the same amount of grip isn't be applied to these smaller pistols with less to hold onto. I think this is the problem because in the past I have been guilty of this. I used to jerk the trigger but my grip was good so the movement was minimized, kind of like putting a pistol in a vice and tightening it as much as possible and then whacking the trigger with a broom handle. It's still going to make accurate hits, but it's not fundamentally sound. I fixed it with the advice I gave earlier. Hopefully Doc will look into my advice and improve, even if he doesn't admit he checked it out or thank me for trying to help. I don't need my ego stroked, I just want more of the gun community to be more informed.
Thanks for the honest reply.
IMightBeWrong
New member
How so?
Doc Holliday 1950
New member
Some of you know me thru my posts & if I would have read this, I would have reacted in similar fashion as most of you and thought that we both were smoking
funny tobacco.
For me to miss a target using two different pistols at 8 feet is inconceivable to me. But it did happen.
My wife did talk to the GS owner and told her what happened. There was one more gun rented and that was a 380. We were charged for 2 boxes of ammo( 9mm & 380 ) plus we bought several different types of ear plugs to use with our head set sound mufflers. We were not charged for the gun rentals nor lane use. I went back over my receipt and found that we were not charged for the gun rentals as previously I thought that we were. Sorry for that error.
I usually do not rent GS guns and as a responder said she go by the reviews and has been lucky with her purchases. The only time that I rented before buying was my Glock 19(in Nashville) & the owner of this range was & is a client of mine. He picked out several pistols for me to shoot before I bought my Glock.
funny tobacco.
For me to miss a target using two different pistols at 8 feet is inconceivable to me. But it did happen.
My wife did talk to the GS owner and told her what happened. There was one more gun rented and that was a 380. We were charged for 2 boxes of ammo( 9mm & 380 ) plus we bought several different types of ear plugs to use with our head set sound mufflers. We were not charged for the gun rentals nor lane use. I went back over my receipt and found that we were not charged for the gun rentals as previously I thought that we were. Sorry for that error.
I usually do not rent GS guns and as a responder said she go by the reviews and has been lucky with her purchases. The only time that I rented before buying was my Glock 19(in Nashville) & the owner of this range was & is a client of mine. He picked out several pistols for me to shoot before I bought my Glock.
turtlehead
New member
Maybe it's the crappy grip, the crappy trigger and the crappy sights.
Just throwing it out there.
Just throwing it out there.
For them to not charge you for the rentals at least shows they tried to make things better.
The reality is no one here can say for certain why what happened did happen. I'll say that myself I have had days when I got home from the range, dropped my gear on the ground, and sat in my chair either annoyed or confused. It happens. Sometimes the hardest part is moving forward. Maybe at some point you'll find someone from whom you can borrow one of those pistols again and give it another go.
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The reality is no one here can say for certain why what happened did happen. I'll say that myself I have had days when I got home from the range, dropped my gear on the ground, and sat in my chair either annoyed or confused. It happens. Sometimes the hardest part is moving forward. Maybe at some point you'll find someone from whom you can borrow one of those pistols again and give it another go.
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Doc Holliday 1950
New member
I will go to a different range & rent both
Glocks again after the holiday. This is
really bugging me.
Glocks again after the holiday. This is
really bugging me.
Independent George
New member
I reached the opposite conclusion - I would expect a novice afraid of guns to hit a normal sized target at 8 ft. If an experienced shooter (like the OP) is missing at that range, I think something has to be wrong with the gun.
I still lean towards a sight issue, just because I can't think of anything mechanical causing an issue like that without wrecking the entire gun.
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Cheapshooter
New member
Doc, let me get this straight. Eight feet? A tiny 2 3/4 inches more than official dart board distance.
Not eight yards (24 feet)? One yard ( 3 feet) further than common CCW qualifying distance.
1. I think it would have taken me only a couple rounds missing the entire target at spitball distance before I went to someone at the desk, and asked "Wuzzup"!
2. My curiosity is so much that I would now get back to the same shop, and try to rent the same exact guns to find out for my self Wuzzup?
But that's me, and I don't rent guns in the first place. If I see one that interests me, and I have the money, I just buy it then find out how it shoots. If I don't have the money, and am really interested in a gun, I start saving up for it.
Not eight yards (24 feet)? One yard ( 3 feet) further than common CCW qualifying distance.
1. I think it would have taken me only a couple rounds missing the entire target at spitball distance before I went to someone at the desk, and asked "Wuzzup"!
2. My curiosity is so much that I would now get back to the same shop, and try to rent the same exact guns to find out for my self Wuzzup?
But that's me, and I don't rent guns in the first place. If I see one that interests me, and I have the money, I just buy it then find out how it shoots. If I don't have the money, and am really interested in a gun, I start saving up for it.
Theohazard
New member
Take a look at the angles required to miss the entire target at 8 feet away. The rear sight would have to be pushed so far to the side that it was hanging off the slide. Or the slide would have to be so battered and worn out that the barrel protruded at an angle during lockup. None of these things are very likely.
I recently shot an M&P .22 Compact with my Dead Air silencer on it at 21 feet and my groups were horrible. Turns out that the adjustable rear sight was loose and flopping around and I was also getting baffle strikes from a mis-aligned thread adapter. So the rear sight was jumping around while I was shooting and the bullet was tumbling from hitting the steel endcap on the silencer, and I was still putting all shots on paper at 21 feet.
I worked at a shop that randomly got ahold of a Colt Commander .45 that had a smooth, un-rifled barrel from the factory (obviously a defect). Our best shooter took it to the range and shot a sub-3-inch group at 21 feet. The shots were keyholing due to the lack of rifling, but they still grouped decently enough at that distance.
I don't mean to sound insulting, but the description in the OP's first post sounds like a classic example of shooter error.
I recently shot an M&P .22 Compact with my Dead Air silencer on it at 21 feet and my groups were horrible. Turns out that the adjustable rear sight was loose and flopping around and I was also getting baffle strikes from a mis-aligned thread adapter. So the rear sight was jumping around while I was shooting and the bullet was tumbling from hitting the steel endcap on the silencer, and I was still putting all shots on paper at 21 feet.
I worked at a shop that randomly got ahold of a Colt Commander .45 that had a smooth, un-rifled barrel from the factory (obviously a defect). Our best shooter took it to the range and shot a sub-3-inch group at 21 feet. The shots were keyholing due to the lack of rifling, but they still grouped decently enough at that distance.
I don't mean to sound insulting, but the description in the OP's first post sounds like a classic example of shooter error.
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Maybe next time ask the gun store clerk to run a couple rounds through both guns. See if they can hit the target.
I worked PT at a gun shop range for 5 years - 10 some years ago. Rental guns get beat on + rarely get cleaned. Could be a worn out barrel in the 26 or something broken.
Small guns like the Glock 43 are hard to hold on to. Really need either grip tape or a rubber grip sleeve. I picked up 2 small 9's recently and don't shoot either well. Both (Ruger LC9s & S&W Shield) slip around in my hands under recoil = poor groups.
I've owned 1 pistol that I could not get on target for the life of me. This was an H&K USP 45. Let a couple friends shoot it and they were tearing out the bullseye of the target. Figured out the sights were just too tall for me. H&K sells shorter replacement sights. Traded that USP to a buddy for his Glock 21.
I worked PT at a gun shop range for 5 years - 10 some years ago. Rental guns get beat on + rarely get cleaned. Could be a worn out barrel in the 26 or something broken.
Small guns like the Glock 43 are hard to hold on to. Really need either grip tape or a rubber grip sleeve. I picked up 2 small 9's recently and don't shoot either well. Both (Ruger LC9s & S&W Shield) slip around in my hands under recoil = poor groups.
I've owned 1 pistol that I could not get on target for the life of me. This was an H&K USP 45. Let a couple friends shoot it and they were tearing out the bullseye of the target. Figured out the sights were just too tall for me. H&K sells shorter replacement sights. Traded that USP to a buddy for his Glock 21.
IMightBeWrong
New member
Doc,
Is this your first experience wish subcompact pistols? You have the 19 and some revolvers so was this your first attempt at feeling out some really small pistols?
Is this your first experience wish subcompact pistols? You have the 19 and some revolvers so was this your first attempt at feeling out some really small pistols?
Doc Holliday 1950
New member
Yes this was my first time firing a sub compact. The only thing smaller than that is my American Arms 5 shot 22 mag.& we both have no problems with that but this might be a different matter.
Mastrogiacomo
New member
Subcompacts are not the easiest guns to fire...which is why I have so few...and largely full sized guns in my collection.
IMightBeWrong
New member
That's my thought. The 9mm subcompacts are no joke, they're harder to shoot in the beginning. It's easier to shoot left if your trigger finger isn't right where it needs to be since you've got less grip to work with.
I'm confident that if you run another 50 rounds through either of them you'll start hitting nicely. Just start playing with a slow surprise break and increase speed as you get a feel for them and the issue will work itself out I think.
As a quick piece of advice, having a solid grip on these little guns is extra important. If you're used to Weaver or 60/40, push/pull, etc then you may want to apply more grip since things like the 43 want to jump out of the hands more. What I do is I grab the pistol like a bullseye shooter, getting the gun in line with my forearm. I don't KEEP it in line since I shoot Iso, but this positions the gun in my hand so that the grip force is almost all on the front and back strap. If it's a 26, I need to wiggle it just a bit out of forearm alignment due to the grip thickness while making sure to apply the grip force to the same spots. I don't grip to a percentage, I just grip nice and tight without crushing so much that my hand fatigues. Then my support hand comes in and squeezes also, applying the side to side pressure with the fingers wrapped around. Nice and tight, no push/pull. This works best for me and helps especially with the little guns that shoot major calibers.
I'm confident that if you run another 50 rounds through either of them you'll start hitting nicely. Just start playing with a slow surprise break and increase speed as you get a feel for them and the issue will work itself out I think.
As a quick piece of advice, having a solid grip on these little guns is extra important. If you're used to Weaver or 60/40, push/pull, etc then you may want to apply more grip since things like the 43 want to jump out of the hands more. What I do is I grab the pistol like a bullseye shooter, getting the gun in line with my forearm. I don't KEEP it in line since I shoot Iso, but this positions the gun in my hand so that the grip force is almost all on the front and back strap. If it's a 26, I need to wiggle it just a bit out of forearm alignment due to the grip thickness while making sure to apply the grip force to the same spots. I don't grip to a percentage, I just grip nice and tight without crushing so much that my hand fatigues. Then my support hand comes in and squeezes also, applying the side to side pressure with the fingers wrapped around. Nice and tight, no push/pull. This works best for me and helps especially with the little guns that shoot major calibers.