Does anyone carry a blackjack or sap?

I sound like a total nerd, I'm sure, but I never liked sprays. As far as I'm concerned, the old Ninja Metsubushi is better. (Blinding Powder.) Far more illegal, but better. Some consisted of salt, crushed glass, sand, pepper powder, and mixes of them all. I've been sprayed, and I'm sure we've all had something gritty in our eyes. Instead of waiting for a chemical to take effect, a physical substance is always better, in my opinion. Though they have to have their eyes open enough to get it in, flinch responses aren't helpful here.

Knife rights are often overlooked, and too often are they considered weapons. I understand some circumstances, such as courtrooms and airlines, but when a 3.5 inch fixed blade is illegal to open carry, it's ridiculous.
 
Oven Cleaner is reported to work well.
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Oven cleaner contains lye.

Get that in your eye and you will be permanently blind until the corneal transplant (if you are lucky and the damage is not deep).

THE CORNEA BECOMES OPAQUE.

It attacks the cornea and permanently damages it, and can penetrate into some of the deeper structures of the eye.
 
LOL, Try wasp and hornet spray.
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Not to pick on the OP, who appeared to be making a side comment and not a suggestion; but I've seen several people suggest that wasp and hornet spray is a good substitute for pepper spray.

The problem with this is that wasp and hornet spray is basically nerve agent. It has a high probability of killing or seriously injuring someone, meaning it is the same as "deadly force" in most places. So legally, you could only use wasp and hornet spray in self-defense if you would be justified in shooting them in that same scenario.

Pepper spray on the other hand is generally recognized* as being non-lethal force and can be used in situations where deadly force cannot.

*Check your state laws. YMMV
 
The bug sprays have a high probability of affecting you - if used inside. Happens to folks who foolish use it in the house on a bug. Also, there are specific laws against such in some places.

Also, if you blind someone deliberately - you will not be looked upon kindly if you had other options and / or the situation is ambiguous. Just IMHO.

Because, blinding is seen as worse than shooting someone. Strange, isn't - but that was the rationale behind banning laser blinding weapons.
 
There's a collapsible baton in the wife's van and a fiberglass sledgehammer handle in my truck. They're my first line of defense in a sudden attack. Easily accessible...as long as you are in or near the vehicle. Not sure if that's legal...don't really care. The perpetrator that attacks me is not going to check local and state laws before attacking. He'd probably be glad I whipped his @$$ with those other than shooting him.

I carry too much other crap in my pockets to try to carry something to smack a bad guy or spray him with too.
 
The other issues with pepper sprays, saps, batons, etc. are:

1. Have you had training with them? Misused, they can cause "disproportionate injury".

2. If you carry a sap, but shoot someone, the prosicutor WILL ask you why you did not just hit them with your sap/spray/baton. Heck, in some areas they still ask why you didn't "just shoot the gun out of his hand?", or "just shoot him in the leg?" This only complicates your defense that you were acting to save your life.

That is, in most states, deadly force may be used only to prevent death or serious bodily harm (in at least one state, [New York?], it was held at one time that rape was not a crime of serious bodily harm - ask your wife/girlfriend/daughter what they think.). If you are not at risk of D/SBH, they you may only use "proportionate force". Now your attacker says all he had was empty hands, and you hit him with a lead sap - "no fair'.

Just being the 'devils advocate' here, you understand. This is why I strongly advocate the 'Nike defense' - RUN AWAY!
I will attempt escape until I can justify the use of deadly force - I'm not in LE any more, and have no duty to apprehend, nor do I have to deal with those who are not threatening my life, or the life of another. It all depends on what you can articulate to justify your actions.
 
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I honestly think a gun is a better option.

There are many many cases of people beaten to death with nothing but the assailant's fists and feet(shoes/boots). A case here in Chicago where a man was nearly beaten to death arguing about the Cubs versus White Sox. He went blind in one eye and was in a coma for a while.

You really have no way of knowing if someone is just going to punch you in the face and leave or if they going to punch you in the face , and proceed to try to beat you to death.

I believe in most cases, the violence de-escalates when you draw a gun. Unless you are an idiot and a jerk and start waving it around and doing stupid things. If you pull it and call 911, or exit the situation or all three - I think it de-esclates the violence.

One thing that I would think about if I'm tussling with a BG, is "Does he have a knife", and "Does he have a gun?"

I really would rather not be trying to wack someone, or slice them and have them pull a gun.


So you get into a confrontation with some jerk, because he hates your baseball team, he takes a swing at you, you wack em with your blackjack, he pulls a knife, you pull a knife, he pulls a gun and now he's holding a gun on you while your's is in your IWB holster and suddenly you get that feeling "DOH!"

I would rather do it this way

Jerk wants to punch me in the face because my St. Louis Cardinals beat his Texas Rangers, he takes a swing at me, I backpedal while putting my left hand up telling him to stop - "I don't want any trouble", if he continues the attack I draw my pistol. If he stops, I call 911 and file a report for assault. If he decides to attack me even though I have a gun, I'm going to fire.

Just my opinion...
 
If someone is just swinging at me, I'm not likely to back pedal. C0untZer0, there's a lot to be said about your specific scenario. One, he takes a swing and you back pedal, he is more likely to get a more powerful hit in at a distance. A push into his attack is more likely to keep you safe (punching 6 inches in front of you isn't as powerful, and a knee to the groin would be easy here). Two, his second attack isn't likely going to be the same as the first. Three, you don't know it could be lethal, adding a weapon into it increases your chances of getting hurt.

You said you'd rather not club or slice someone for swinging at you thinking they may pull a gun. At the distance you'd be, roughly the same as you would be if you were drawing, you'd have a good chance of stopping his draw, but you'd still be in the wrong. In all of this, empty hand skills and interpersonal skills would result in less legal trouble.
 
I'm assuming the interpersonal skills have already failed at that point.

If you don't have time to draw a gun, you don't have time to arm yourself with a black-jack either.

If, for whatever reason I'm not going to easily be able to draw, then unarmed combat is what it is...
 
Friend of mine spent 2 weeks in county jail because he hit a guy in a bar fight with an ashtray off the table. He's 6'2 245lbs. The other dude made him look like a toddler. But my buddy now has an assault and battery record and he can't own any firearms. Just trying to defend himself. What's it gonna look like to a judge when you hit somebody with a blackjack or something similar that you carry everyday? I'm not saying you can't defend yourself, just be prepared to have to "lawyer up" whether you shoot somebody or pummel them with a stick.
 
C0untZer0 said:
If you don't have time to draw a gun, you don't have time to arm yourself with a black-jack either.
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I'd rather be unable to draw a baton/blackjack/sap and fumble over it than do it with a gun.
 
I don't know why I would want one. I do not intend to get into any fights, and if I am attacked I need more than a sap.
Jerry
 
I drove over the road for a number of years. This placed me in many different jurisdictions and to many conflicting jurisdictions to carry a blackjack, pepper spray, stungun or other nonlethal device.

I carried a 24oz claw hammer. When stopped and asked, I explained that I used it to thump tires and block and brace loads. It came in very handy one night when I had to place it between the legs of a punk who wasn't as tough as he thought.

An ABC Fire Extinguisher is legal and nonthreatning. It is also extremely effective. It has a range of 20ft. Should deploy at 15ft.

When inhaled it causes the target to immediately start coughing, gaging and wretching.

In the eyes, it causes immediate tearing and burning. If untreated it will cause damage up to and including blindness.

Swung sharply it will break an arm.
 
ITC, you beat me to it. Folks going to Mexico used to ask me what they should carry for defense - I told them a fire extinguesher. If anybody asked why they had one in their tent (or motel room), just tell them you were burned as a child. At a car accident or "disabled" car, take it with you "in case there is a fire".

Whenever someone mentions knives, I ask if getting covered with the blood of a hype with HIV is part of their long term survival plan.

And if I got into an argument that heated that someone wanted to hit me, "Nike time!" It's just not that important, and besides, if you strike back, it can be considered 'mutual combat', and you become an agressor as well, liable for the injuries ultimatly suffered by the other combatant.
It's may not be considered defense of your life, if you stuck around to 'duke it out'.
 
In Texas blackjacks, brass knuckles, and knives with blades in over 51/2 inches are prohibited weapons. Blackjacks and knuckles will get you jailed with losing your CHL as one result. The knife may be overlooked depending on the cop. Also, a big stick or some such can be interpreted to be a club.
 
+1 to the SAP gloves. I have a fingerless set, and each glove has about ten ounces of steel shot in each. As far as I know, they are legal here in Colorado (as long as you're not directly instigating situations with them, which you shouldn't do regardless :rolleyes:)

They're actually pretty unassuming, and the effect they give is pretty remarkable. When I bought them, I was like, "that was a waste of money. These are going to hurt my hands WORSE if I punch anything." wrong- the biggest benefit they have is they actually shield your hand against whatever you hit with them. I was throwing punches against things to where if I wasn't wearing them, I would have three or four broken fingers. Overall usefulness however, I think is slim to nil. If you have to punch anyone, I would rather do it without since wearing them looks like you were picking the fight, since you came "prepared" to do so. Well, they're kind of a fun novelty, being able to turn your hands into dead blow hammers. And technically it's open carry ;)

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I live in Florida and blackjack and saps are legal but you have to have a concealed carry permit. In Florida it is legal to carry a gun in your car without a permit as long as it is secure in a holster, glovebox, firearmbox, ammo box, etc. It has to be secured and not readily available to children. I wonder if you are able to carry a firearm in your car w/o a permit, can you carry a blackjack in your car without one?
 
Hhmmm....Well. with re: to post # 11, I've seen a # of said "punks" carrying canes for much the same reason that they're being recommended in this forum. And, if those folks are carrying them, I'd say they know how to use them, for both offense & defense. I won't even bother to do more than mention that they probably get a bit more practice using them than do the law-abiding members of this forum.--Patrice
 
Sleuth said:
Whenever someone mentions knives, I ask if getting covered with the blood of a hype with HIV is part of their long term survival plan.
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This is a very good point, something that people forget. But it's even more reason to be used as a last resort.
 
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