Does anyone carry a blackjack or sap?

I've never been fond of the Sap or Blackjacks. My instructor in the course I've been taking is a former LEO and he absolutely loved his Blackjack.

I DO have a pair of Sap Gloves, they are marvelous things in my opinion. I'd like to get some fingerless ones soon, when I get back to Oregon. They provide padding for your hand while the weight helps follow through on the punch. Never had to use them, but they keep my hands warm in the winter...
 
Sap Gloves,
Click to expand...

Seen em with lead in the knuckle area. old school cops had these and my Uncle (det) carried a sap made of leather and had birdshot in it.

Iowa permit is for carrying weapons, didnt ask about non firing ones tho.
 
One of the issues with saps is they are generally 'soft' or with the lead mounted on a spring, so all you can really do with them is hit. I also have in my pile of ""stuff" a slapper, wich is a stiff sap than can be used to prod someone. I never carried that either.

And in AZ, it is a 'concealed weapon permit', no firearms listed. In theory, I could carry a Thompson subgun under my coat and be legal. We regulate the person, not the tool.
 
For a lot of years, I carried a standard CO2 cartridge that I had poured full of lead. It wasn't quite a pound, but it added quite a bit to my punch.

Due to bad knees and back, I sometimes use a walking stick that has about 3 ounces of lead beneath a heavy pewter cap. It would crush a skull.
 
From a legal perspective, I think it would be very easy to cross the line into "deadly force" using a sap or blackjack, particularly if you didn't have training in the use of such a weapon.

If I am going to use deadly force, I'd much prefer to use a ranged weapon as opposed to a contact weapon; but canes and the like do have a big advantage of being readily available and relatively innocuous in parts of the world where firearms would be a problem.
 
Broke my leg a few years back and had to walk with a cane for about 6 months, my wife bought me a Coldsteel Blackthorn.

Nice wife, nice cane.:)
 
My father, a boxer in college in the late 1920s and early 1930s, carried rolls of quarters in his pockets -- just in case.
 
I don't carry one, but when I started in LE in the late 1980s, most officers did. I can say that, from what I've seen, they make pretty fearsome weapons.
 
I like them as they are effective at stopping a assualt and it is a shame that they are not legal in most states.

There are a few kinds of them;

Blackjacks --- are round and mainly have a spring in the handle and have a round head with lead birdshot or a solid peice of lead for impact.

Saps ---- are flat and most have a flat spring as the handle -- heads are lead filled with birdshot or a solid peice of lead for impact.


IMHO --- Saps are much more deadly --- if you strike with the "flat edge" of a sap , you can break bones and cause deep lacerations because the impact is concentrated in a 1/4" of impact.

The round head of a Blackjack has more of a chance of glanceing or bounceing off hard bone.

EITHER WILL KILL if you are not trained in what parts of a body to strike at.

A big plus in their favor is that you can palm or have one up your sleeve and thay are GREAT as a knock down weapon.
 
Personally i believe a can of Fox spray is far superior. The stream can reaches out to 20 feet away and you spray someone they are done altogether. But a cane, blackjack, baseball bat or something would be good after you spray to beat the crap out of afterwards i guess. But then again afterwards the threat should no longer be so you could change from getting assaulted to being the one assaulting. Be careful
 
I don't see a use for black-jacks or breass knuckle-type things (roll of quarters), bludgeons etc... At least not for me. And they are deadly. My friend's uncle died from being struck with pool que. He was playing for money, in a bar... you get the picture. Anyway, getting wacked over the head with anything doesn't usually work out in real life the way it does in Hollywood. The one Hollywood film that I know of that was realistic about it was the movie Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, in which Jeff bridges suffers brain damage from being pistol whipped and eventually dies. I knew a guy in the Army who was wacked in he head with a brick in Leesville - Friday night / payday, and robbed. And he was lucky to have lived through it. As it was he lost feeling and sense of taste in part of his tongue.

When Ilinois gets CCW, I'll be carrying. I think that also means I don't do stupid things like hang around in dangerous parts of Chicago, get mouthy with people in bars and common sense things like that. It means I try to avoid and walk away from situations that might escalate into violence, and descalate when I can.

But having said all that. If I've done those things and someone decides they want to perpetrate physical violence on me, I'd rather pull a gun and call the cops on my cell rather than try to slap someone silly with a black-jack.
 
I think that everyone should carry what they are comforable with and hopefully , have had a little training in its use.

A cell phone and a CCW are not always the correct ansewer IMHO.

I like to have a "layered defense" from non-lethal on up. I almost always have a impact weapon on me as well as a edged weapon. And if I feel the need , a firearm also -- either on me or in my car.

There are 100s of situations where you can not use lethal force but where you could use a non-lethal weapon with little risk of being placed in prison.

One or two drunk jerks pushing you around on the street is not enough reason to shoot them. Useing pepper-spray , a stick , cane or other impact weapon can be a much better choice.

As to training -- Eskrima , Kali , Arnis etc. teaches the use of "sticks" -- a Sap or Blackjack is really just a short weigthed stick with a good wack to it :D
 
Saw a very large dude get whupped on by two smaller guys had brass knuckles. Was very bloody. He did their sis wrong, they whupped him bad, was taken to a hospital with many broken bones in his face.

Another I served in my bar had his jaw broke same way while at a red lite. guy got out of his car and hit him once.

Very effective in stopping a person but not very legal in many states now.
 
I often carry an asp baton, it's legal here in KY with a ccw license. Said license also covers concealed knives and other "deadly weapons". Good to have a less lethal option if a legal one is available.
 
There is a very powerful Second Amendment lobby and voter bloc. Unfortunately, it is strictly the gun rights lobby. Legislators would get political hell for banning concealed pistols, but no one cares about the right to carry a knife.

knife_rights_mousepad-p144992758232685196td22_210.jpg
 
There is a kinfe rights group based in Tucson, and they are getting support from the NRA - look up Kniferights.com or .org, or find the current issue of America's First Freedom, they have an article about them.

As to using a sap on guys pushing you around, that turns you into the agressor, unless you have already tried to escape. And beating someone who is down (from pepper spray or any other reason) WILL get you charged with a felony in most places.

Pepper spray is great stuff - when it works. As an instructor, I got sprayed three (3) times before it had any effect - and even they it was delayed about 45 seconds. Had I wanted to, I could have taken the can away from the guy spraying me, and used it on him. Total time from 1st spray to any effect - about 90 seconds. As a civilian, I would say SPRAY AND RUN!
 
As some one else stated illegal in NC. I do however still have my black jack that I carried as a police officer. With that said it does NOT leave my house.
 
Pepper spray is less lethal, the substances you suggest could easily prove lethal. If you want to go that route, Oven Cleaner is reported to work well.
 
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