Does a Lever Action Rifle jam?

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A few years back, I sold my Mini 14 so I could buy a Marlin 1894SS in .44 Magnum. It was the one with the very short barrel. I figured that I'd found my "everything" rifle; short-range deer hunting, black bear incursions, even HD, if loaded with .44 Specials. Alas, it was not to be...no matter how clean I kept that rifle or how hard I racked that lever, it jammed..A LOT. I sent it off to Marlin in hopes of fixing the problem, no good. VERY disappointing. I got rid of it, and managed to buy back my Mini 14, which never jams. Lesson learned.
 
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Browning BL22 - LR, longs, & shorts - all in same magazine tube if you like - never jammed.

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Winchester 94s in 30-30 -

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Winchester 95 in 30-06 (available in .405 for african game) - wife gave it to me for our 25th anniversary 7 years ago -if you don't like the tube magazine, this is the one for you -

I've seen one under the carrier jam in a 94 - but, over the past 30 years, none of mine have malfunctioned - but, most any gun can malfunction at some time -.
 
In 1972, or thereabouts, there was BBC TV series called ‘The Gun’. 10, 10 minute episodes on the history of small arms. At one point there was a shot of a man shooting a 92’action 44.40. In slow motion the lever sweeping forward with, trigger finger outside the guard, the empty cartridge spinning upwards seemed to me aged 12, cooler than Clint Eastwood.
Forward to 1992. In a gun shop in Ilminster, there was a used Marlin .44 magnum. Handled it, liked it and with no experience of lever actions and after some discussion with the gun shop owner, bought it.
First trip to the range, loaded it with 5, butt to the shoulder, pushed the lever forward and the gun locked up solid. With some difficulty unloaded it, tried again, same thing. Unloaded it and took it back to the shop. The loading gate needed replacing (buyer beware) and after that it performed flawlessly, but I never really took to it. I sold it after a couple of hundred rounds.
Forward to 1997. All hand guns banned in this country. We were legally obliged to hand our handguns and associated paraphernalia into a Police Station and eventually get compensated to 75% of their value. But .44 magnum is still legal as a rifle cartridge here so I kept my 1000 or so cases and my reloading dies.
Forward to 2010. After some very helpful discussion with members on this forum I bought a Chiappa copy of a Winchester ‘92 in .44 Remington Magnum. 20” round barrel, saddle ring and case hardened frame. Life’s been busy so I’ve only put about 150 rounds through it. No stoppages at all, though a couple of times the lever had to be quite forcefully closed to chamber the next round. A more popular choice in my club is a ’94 action in .357, often with optical or electronic sights. These guys are more experienced with lever guns and are certainly shooting better than me especially as my eyes are going so I have to wear reading glasses to see the ’92 sights which are period. I want to get to the range and really work out the ladder sight.
The last time I shot it was on February 3rd, a bitter day. Loading it with cold fingers was very difficult and I had to hook my left hand under the frame and pinch the rounds so that the nose went through the gate.
The time before that was in Mid January and it was milder and we were shooting at a Huns Head target at 200 yards from standing and kneeling. I came close but didn’t hit it, but none the less had a great time trying. Haven’t disassembled it yet, though that looks a challenge requiring gunsmiths screw drivers.
Archaic and obsolete? Yes, but I can’t imagine getting rid of it any time soon and hope to start reloading before long. It’s probably not the most competitive choice, as some friends have gleefully told me, but what it is, is exactly what I wanted.
I also have a Scout rifle. I don’t think Scout Rifles are necessarily better or the answer to everything that some claim. I just like mine.
 
"The Browning BLR refutes all of this........."

As does the Savage Model 99, the Sako Finnwolf, and the Winchester Model 88. Someone else mentioned the Model 1895 Winchester.

If someone thinks that lever-action rifles are limited to rimmed cartridges, tubular magazines and round or flatnose bullets, they simply don't know what's available.

And any of those rifles is capable of sub MOA accuracy, especially the Browning.
 
Archaic and obsolete? Yes...
Archaic yes, obsolete, absolutely not! There are probably more leverguns available today than at any other time in history.


And any of those rifles is capable of sub MOA accuracy, especially the Browning.
As are two of my traditional leverguns. Methinks that a lot of what people believe about leverguns is based on what they 'heard'.
 
I like leverguns as much as anyone, own more than any other type, and regularly shoot and hunt with them. But if we are honest, they simply don't do anything very well. Especially when compared to other action types. I use them because I like them, and that is reason enough. But don't let anyone ever try to convinve you that a lever gun offers a single advantage over any other action type.

Most of us grew up watching an endless run of cowboy movies on TV and many have never been able to separate fantasy from fact. Lets look at a few facts.

Leverguns were never popular in the old west, Single shots and shotguns won the west. Most were not even invented until after the west was paved and tame. The ones that were available were very expensive and not often used. By WW-I leveractions were all but dead. It was only their starring role in Hollywood movies made from 1920-1970 that made them popular even though most of those guns featued in the movies were not invented until much later and are not historically correct in the movies.

The 30-30 was a step backwards in cartridge development and had been obsolete for 3 years before the 1st rifle was ever sold. The 7X57 was developed in 1892 and is the parent cartridge for almost all of our modern rounds such as the 30-06, 308, 270 etc.

Lever actions are not lightweight and easy to carry. Put a few on some scales sometime and compare. The only 30-30 that I own that is lighter than my 300 magnum is a 16" barreled trapper and it is within 2 oz. All of my other bolt actions are lighter than any of my leverguns, some by as much as 2 lbs. Lever actions are actually the heaviest of all repeating actions.

Lever actions are no longer inexpensive. At one time this was true, but a Marlin 336C is selling for just under $500 now. Used guns are also bringing a premium.

Lever actions are not fast firing. At least not if you want to hit something. This bit of fantasy comes from watching too many cowboy movies where actors firing blanks and not aiming at anything can get off a string of rapid fire shots and never seem to miss. It doesn't work that way in real life. If you don't believe me take your guns to the range sometime with a friend and a stopwatch. I found I was able to get off 3 shots with my leverguns in 1.4 seconds if I were not aiming at a target. The bolt action 308 took only 1.8 seconds to do the same thing. But when I put up a 9" paper plate at 50 yards and tried the same thing I found I could get 3 hits on the paper plate faster with the bolt gun. Both took almost twice as long as the pump or semi-auto.

The modern lever actions offer better accuracy and the ability to shoot modern cartridges in box magazines, but they are still well behind other action types in accuracy, and reliability. As well as being heavy and cubersome.

Not bashing leverguns at all. Just a statement of easily verifyable facts.
 
I like leverguns as much as anyone, own more than any other type, and regularly shoot and hunt with them. But if we are honest, they simply don't do anything very well. Especially when compared to other action types. I use them because I like them, and that is reason enough. But don't let anyone ever try to convinve you that a lever gun offers a single advantage over any other action type.

Ah, but they will do a great many things adequately well ..... thus my Scout Rifle Comment ..... Jeff Cooper admitted as much, calling a 30/30 levergun a "poor man's Scout"......

I'll have to get a good scale to weigh some of my rifles.....
 
Topload?

I can change a magazine faster than you can load 3 rounds, maybe 2.
All a levergun can do is look cool wutha cowboy hat and a SAA. And they do.
 
Nice scope, SR. The gold ring says Leupold, but what model? I'm thinking about doing something similar with my 1895G but have been a little worried about getting the proper eye relief out of it.

Come to think of it.... A short, quick handling rifle with more capacity than any bolt gun I've ever seen while chambering a cartridge capable of knocking down anything that walks the planet is a pretty good use case.

I've never seen a bolt gun that has capacity for more than three of something comparable to a .45-70 (the 1896GBL has room for 6+1). Sure, you could probably find a semi auto to fit the bill, but then you're going to have a bulky magazine dangling around in the way making it less convenient to carry.
 
"Leverguns were never popular in the old west"

Ok, the silliness of that statement is illustrated by Winchester's sales records of lever actions in the United States, including lading bills for HUGE numbers of guns that were bundled onto railroad cars, shipped to distributors in Chicago and St. Louis, and disbursed all the freak over the American west.

Winchester made nearly 750,000 Model 1873s, with the VAST majority of them being shipped WEST.

I don't have production numbers at hand for Winchester, Ballard, Sharps, and Remington single shot rifles, but I have a funny feeling that there were more 1873s manufactured than there were single shot rifles during this time

The large-frame single shot rifles were primarily the domain of the market hunters. At any given time it's estimated that there were fewer than 5,000 of these individuals.

Not everyone in the west was employed as a buffalo hunter. :rolleyes:

And, let's not forget that Winchester also had four other lever-actions that sold very well in the same time frame -- the 1876, the 1886, the 1894, and the 1895. Granted, the latter two are getting very close to the end of what we would consider to be the "classic" old west, but that doesn't detract from the fact that they were more than passingly popular west of the Mississippi.

All told, though, in the "old west" period, Winchester made well over 1 million rifles for sale in the United States, and by far the lion's share of them were sold in the west.

I'd really love to know where you came up with your assessment that the Winchester rifle wasn't popular in the west, and in fact was apparently something of a rare duck?




"The ones that were available were very expensive and not often used."

ALL quality firearms at that time were expensive in terms relative to personal income.

Just as they are today.


"By WW-I leveractions were all but dead."

Also incorrect.

It was World War I that introduced a significant number of Americans to bolt action rifles.

The 1920s saw the first commercial successful bolt action rifles that made any sort of traction with the shooting public.

Previous attempts to introduce bolt action rifles had largely been a failure because they didn't sell.

Why?

Because people weren't familiar with them.

What did they want?

Lever action rifles. Sales of lever action rifles by Winchester and Savage remained robust in the first two decades of the 20th century, FAR more robust than you apparently know.

So it was the rise of the bolt action that killed the lever action after 1920, right?

Guess again.

After the war, sales of Savage and Winchester lever actions remained very strong, and did until the Depression severely depressed gun sales across the board. Serial number records more than show that.

Do you really think that, if the "lever action was all but dead" before World War I Winchester and Savage would have a) continued to produce them and b) would have stayed in business? Especially savage, whose only true volume seller from 1900 to 1917 was.... the lever-action 1899?
 
The "classic" lever actions, the ones built around the Marlin M1893/1894/M336 and Winchester M1886/M1892/M1894 have been in production for more than a century and that is a lot of development time.

These were successful actions and given the maturity of the actions, as long as you use ammunition which they were designed to use, the feed reliability is going to be excellent.

It is the lever actions which are not on the market anymore, those designs died for various reasons, and I will bet a number of those were troublesome.

Reading American Rifleman articles from the 40's, those Winchester and Marlin lever actions were about the most reliable actions the Eskimos used. The weather up North is cold and horrible but those old lever actions functioned.
 
One lever action I forgot...

The Winchester 1892.

If the lever action was truly dead by the first decades of the 20th century...

How in the world did Winchester manage to manufacture and sell over 1 MILLION of them between 1892 and 1938?
 
But if we are honest, they simply don't do anything very well
I "honestly" don't even know where to begin. Leverguns do everything well. I don't know where you get your info from but they are light and handy. They carry easier in the hand than a boltgun. They're lighter than most boltguns, lighter than any semi-auto and carry infinitely easier than any AR. Accuracy ranges from good to stellar. As stated before, I have two unmodified traditional leverguns that shoot MOA. Yes, bolts tend to be slightly more accurate but how much do you need? IMHO, shooters are obsessed with accuracy almost to the point of lunacy. Fact is, especially here in the east, there is very, very little need for more range and accuracy than leverguns offer. Weight, seriously? An 18" Remington Model 7, which is about as light a centerfire boltgun as a feller would want, weighs just over 6lbs. About the same as your average 20" .30-30 carbine. Same for pistol cartridge levers of 20" or less. My little Winchester 92 Trapper .45Colt is a flyweight at 5½lbs. However, moving up to the 18.5" Marlin Guide Gun .45/70, which is capable of taking the largest game on earth and you are still under 7lbs. Even the 22" Winchester 1886 Extra Light is only 7¼lbs. So where you get this nonsense about weight I have no idea.

It is physically impossible to operate a boltgun as quickly as a levergun. Impossible! Period. End of discussion. If you disagree, the problem lies in your skill and/or experience, not the rifle.


Lever actions are no longer inexpensive. At one time this was true, but a Marlin 336C is selling for just under $500 now. Used guns are also bringing a premium.
More nonsense. Everything is expensive nowadays. The dollar is in the toilet and raw materials are higher than ever. Still, a Marlin 336C is a bargain (best I can do is $475) on today's market and you cannot walk into a pawn or gunshop without tripping over a whole rack of used leveraction .30-30's. Finding one under $400 is easier than catching a cold.


The 30-30 was a step backwards in cartridge development and had been obsolete for 3 years before the 1st rifle was ever sold.
Obsolete? A step backwards? Are you serious??? It was the first American sporting rifle cartridge to use smokeless powder. Folks sure like to throw that word "obsolete" around and many don't seem to have a clue what it means. It's not obsolete today, over 100yrs later, so it sure as hell wasn't obsolete then. It's still a top seller in ammunition and reloading equipment. Good Lord man, get a grip.


I like leverguns as much as anyone...
Obviously not. :rolleyes:


I can change a magazine faster than you can load 3 rounds, maybe 2.
The rhetoric about magazine changes is, uh, interesting. Unless we're talking about video games or shootouts with hordes of Russian paratroopers (sorry, I don't participate in zombie discussions), it's irrelevant. For adults using sporting rifles, the levergun has a higher capacity than your average boltgun and more importantly, you can actually hunt with a lever that holds more than five rounds.
 
Yeah, I didn't even get into the whole thing about the .30-30 cartridge being obsolete when it was introduced... :rolleyes:

Considering that it followed the .30-40 Krag cartridge, the FIRST American developed smokeless powder rifle round of any type, by all of 4 years, and the 8mm Lebel, the first modern small-bore smokeless powder rifle round of any kind by less than 10 years, one has to wonder exactly what it was obsolete to?

Rimmed rifle cartridges were hardly obsolete in 1895, nor are they obsolete today.

If they were obsolete today, Winchester wouldn't have brought out the .225 Winchester, the .307 Winchester, or the .356 Winchester rounds well after World War II, nor would any such ammunition be available for these "never popular, highly mythologized, non-firearms."
 
"I can change a magazine faster than you can load 3 rounds, maybe 2."

So, you're planning on missing with your entire magazine?

I, personally, prefer to concentrate on hitting my target and not having to go to the reload... :p
 
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