Do you support the war in Iraq?

Do you support the war in Iraq?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 166 65.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 84 32.9%

  • Undecided/Don't Know/Don't care.

    Votes: 5 2.0%
  • Total voters
    255
NO, screw the people in Iraq, and I dont care about fixing their broken, and sadistic country. we have so many problems in this country, how about those 45million unisuried americans, i am sure we have afew here on the forums. or the law abiding americans living in communties with high crime, high drug use, and rapist running around? how about our schools that are far behind europe, and asia, in math, science, and reading? but lets spend afew 100billion dollars (soon approching 1 trillion), on 24 million iraqis that still hate our guts, and are ready to kill themselves just to kill one american solider. people talk about woman's rights in iraq, and the middle east, well i am not ready to die, or send 19 year old american boys to die so iraqi girls can dress up like jessica simpson. i wish george washington was president right now, he would just manifest destiny their oil fields, and bomb them if they even mentioned the word "jihad". these people dont want our help (the muslims), they never did, and they never will, and thats why i am not for this war, its suicide to try and bring peace to that region.
 
Ohh, I see. Being Jewish and on a bus automatically makes one guilty huh? Guitly of what? Being born?
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Right, so different from an Israeli helicopter destroying an apartment building in Palestine.

:barf: back at you.



By the way, more non-combatants have been killed in Iraq following our invasion than were killed in 9/11. Oh, the children! ;)
 
"I voted yes but my opinion, nor does yours count. Lets look at the people who are fighting this war. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO'S VOICES COUNT. In the last Pres election 86% of the Army who voted, voted for Pres Bush. This is according to the Army Times. Leatherneck Mag. reported 92 % of Marines voted for Pres Bush. Let the people who are walking the walk be heard. Not us sitting here in the States on our asses."


So, the citizens of the US are not worth listening to, even though all politician are supposed to represent them? The military is the only group of people worth listening to, because they are paid to fight? :rolleyes:
 
NO, screw the people in Iraq, and I dont care about fixing their broken, and sadistic country. we have so many problems in this country, how about those 45million unisuried americans, i am sure we have afew here on the forums. or the law abiding americans living in communties with high crime, high drug use, and rapist running around? how about our schools that are far behind europe, and asia, in math, science, and reading? but lets spend afew 100billion dollars (soon approching 1 trillion), on 24 million iraqis that still hate our guts, and are ready to kill themselves just to kill one american solider. people talk about woman's rights in iraq, and the middle east, well i am not ready to die, or send 19 year old american boys to die so iraqi girls can dress up like jessica simpson. i wish george washington was president right now, he would just manifest destiny their oil fields, and bomb them if they even mentioned the word "jihad". these people dont want our help (the muslims), they never did, and they never will, and thats why i am not for this war, its suicide to try and bring peace to that region.
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First thing it is not the Iraqi people, its about the American people who aren’t being killed on our shores, because of us being their. Second thing, there aren’t 45 million uninsured Americans, that is just a BS number (that includes people who are not covered for a day through the year while transitioning between jobs and those who choose not to insure, read the young) made up by dems. The third thing pouring money into social programs has proven to work where?

Right, so different from an Israeli helicopter destroying an apartment building in Palestine.

By the way, more non-combatants have been killed in Iraq following our invasion than were killed in 9/11. Oh, the children!
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When I have seen those Apaches shooting they have been using PGMs, with small warheads. Meaning targeting specific individuals to minimize collateral damage, which happens in any war. And I could care less how many Hajis have been killed if it means killing 1000 to save 1 American I am all for it.
 
Choir Boys

Israelis are all choir boys
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Well, I don't condone terrorist attacks by any party, because the victims are invariably themselves not guilty of anything. However, I must say, that I think Handy's sarcastic assessment is on the mark. Not only do I view Israel as an outlaw country, I think the United States is just terribly hypocritical in overlooking Israeli human rights abuses while condemning those by others.

For example, consider the Tianamen Square incident in China a decade or so ago, when a Chinese tank actually rolled over a student demonstrater who was bold enough to stand in front of it and try to block it's path. How many times did we see that film? How loud and insistent was the voice of the US administration in condemning this as a brutal action, a moral outrage?

Now, consider an Israeli army bulldozer that rolled over an American protestor in the occupied territories, who was bold enough to stand her ground in front of it and try to block it's path (which was intent on crushing a Palestinian home, an activity they carry out whether it is occupied by noncombatants or not). She was an American citizen wearing a blaze orange vest and standing in broad daylight in front of the house, shouting at the soldier through a megaphone to stop - he didn't, and just drove over her. I am willing to bet that few, if any ever even heard of this incident, because our media barely covered it, and our administration was completely silent on the matter, even though an innocent citizen of ours was deliberately killed by a foreign army. Funny how that happens when the Israelis do it, isn't it???

For those who doubt this happened, below is a quote taken from the US State Department's annual human rights report - given that the US is Israel's closest ally, this report will if anything, minimize culpability by Israelis:
On March 16, 2003, an Israeli bulldozer clearing land in Rafah in the Gaza Strip crushed and killed Rachel Corrie, 23, a U.S. citizen peace activist. Corrie was standing in front of the bulldozer and was wearing a reflective vest. Eyewitness demonstrators stated that they believe the driver knew Corrie was in front of the bulldozer as he proceeded forward. IDF investigations concluded that the operator was not negligent. U.S. officials who have seen the IDF report found inconsistencies among the statements of the people involved in the accident and other witnesses. The Corrie family believes that the investigation was not thorough, credible, and transparent and continued to pursue the case.
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If the US administration is mute on the murder of it's own citizens in Israel, how concerned do you think they are about what happens to the Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis???
 
So, the citizens of the US are not worth listening to, even though all politician are supposed to represent them? The military is the only group of people worth listening to, because they are paid to fight?
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Nope we should listen to them, but since most who haven’t been there don’t really what really is going on there, their opinions is that of the uniformed.

Besides if I am willing to put my butt on the line, why would someone in relative safety speak for me and my comrades? You don’t have as much to loose as I do.
 
There once was a terrible man who abused and sometimes killed his family members who all feared him. He also said some threatening things about his neighbours, who one day decided to get this man out of the way so they staged an armed excursion into this man's house and a battle ensued, when the smoke had settled it was discovered that the man's young babies and some of his teen-aged kids as well as the children of some of is visitors and workers, had been killed by those trying to free them from this wretched fool. The family was grateful to be rid of him but were sad for the loss of their beloved siblings, and fought to put a face to their real enemy and to define the condition that they now found themselves. Free from the wicked and wretched animal that was their leader but embattled with thoughts of betrayal by their rescurers. This was a bad state and filled with mixed emotions, but what made it worse is that the neighbours, fearing the recreation of a second and more hostile madman born out of the clearly confused and fearfilled situation, felt that they had to remain to ensure a positive regrowth of the family however they continued to restrain the movements of the family and roughed up the males a bit so this created even more deep-seated resentment towards the would be heroes............. There are no winners in a war and helping someone is almost impossible without a clear view of the bad guys. A difficult situation at best.
 
Right on STLRN. I laugh at the clowns who don't go in harms way but feel qualified to tell them if they should be there or not. These people wouldn't listen to someone from Canada or Englang on gun control but they feel qualified to tell the military what is or is not good for them. Is that called 2 faced or just stupid?

Kevin
 
TX_RGR, the war in Iraq is over. As with various other wars such as the Civil War, WWI, and WWII, this is simply all the post conflict harrassment.

Sadly, the problem is overly complex. You can't simply go into somebody else's country, kick their butts, and then leave right away.

These people wouldn't listen to someone from Canada or Englang on gun control but they feel qualified to tell the military what is or is not good for them. Is that called 2 faced or just stupid?
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Kevin, regardless of whether you value the opinions or not, the US is a democracy and citizens get to have a say in how things are done. Granted, some have no idea how things are done, but that does not make them either two-faced or stupid, although some may be.

A lot of front line grunts, even though they are fighting, most definitely should not be making foreign policy as it pertains to conflicts. The know the minutia, but have no concept of the big picture to make responsible decisions beyond their own situation.
 
Hi Kevin.

Just for the record, I voted for Bush Sr. when I was in the military. It was because he gave me a raise. Then he sent me to Panama for Christmas, and I didn't think so much of him after that. As for what my opinion is worth, you may discount yours if you like, but I will not. If anyone cares to judge whether I have paid enough dues to discuss this topic, they are welcome to it. The troops are going to be there whether they approve of the action or not. That's what they are ordered to do. In reality, their opinion matters least. Those of us sitting on our asses as you put it can actually produce some results with a little bit of effort. The poor bastard in the sandbox has no such luxury. Furthermore, I thought this a topic worthy of discussion, and I will dicuss it with others who feel likewise at least until you and your minions take over the Congress.

FWIW, the question I put to the group was not whether we understand the soldier's current plight in Iraq, but whether--knowing what we know now--we should have invaded in the first place. In that case, your idea of only the soldiers in Iraq having an opinion becomes moot, because they wouldn't be there yet.

2 faced TX RGR stupidly signing off
 
Soldiers do what they are told. The rest of the country pays for them. They have a right to help decide what happens. Sure, these guys and girls are in harms way, but that goes with the job. It makes you respected but it doesnt give you more rights.
And besides:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1122897317163460.xml&coll=2
http://www.greatreporter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=439
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/28/national/w120404D70.DTL
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/one_mothers_war_ohio_728
I could go on all day.
 
I did not support our going into Kuwait to liberate them. That was a middle east problem that should have been solved by the middle east countries.

I did not support going into Iraq before we went in. That was a middle east problem that should have been solved by the middle east countries.

I did not support the embargo that we imposed on Iraq, I have yet to see an embargo work.

I do not support being in Iraq now.

I did support going into Afghanistan and I support that now, but see the caveat below.

I do not believe that Iraq ever posed any form of threat to the USA.

The middle east has been a brew pot of little wars between tribes for thousands of years, and will remain the same for thousands more. The only time they find themselves united about anything is when a non middle east country decides to invade. We had, and have, no business there except for Afghanistan, and frankly I don't believe we would have ever needed to go into Afghanistan if we hadn't gone into Kuwait, which I opposed. Once we started in over there we fell into the tar pit. Has history taught us nothing?

If we had gone into Iraq to take over the oil fields for our own use, THEN I would have supported the war. I do believe in wars that serve our interests, but not wars that do not.

We have remained in Cuba for over 100 years.
I don't know how long we have remained in the Phillipines, but over 60 years.
We have remained in Europe and Japan for over 60 years.
We have remained in Korea for over 50 years.
We have remained in the middle east now 14 years?

Why does anyone have any hope that we will leave Iraq, ever?
 
One reason those of us who have been there and done that in Iraq are in a better place to speak of the situation at hand is that I can guarantee you that almost no one else, whether they support or oppose our actions in the country can honestly say they know the facts on the ground. No news source out there has presented a 100 percent accurate image of what is going on, who are fighting or the enemies long term desired end state. The closets so far has been fox, but even they tend to sensationalize things.

And to dislike someone because he sent you off to earn your pay speaks volumes for the character of that person. Why the hell do you think Solders, Sailors, Airmen and Marines exist? We are here to carry out the policy of this nation by means of violence. We are not here just to collect money for college or get an edge on life. We are here to make war when called upon, period.
 
I supported the war in the beginning, but have since learned the truth about 9/11 and who the real terrorists are. I'm a real republican, and will not blindly support people who are less intelligent than my pets. I've done a lot of research into Pearl Harbor, JFK, USS Liberty, TWA Flight 800, Flight 587, Flight 93 etc. A conspiracy theory is no longer a theory once proven, and many of these incidents have been proven to be cover-ups performed by our own govt. If you think the world learned anything from WW2 and will not allow another nazi-like regime, you and your grandchildren have another thing coming. Let the flaming begin, sheep.

;)
 
OKAY: FOR THE LAST TIME

This is not a "tell me how it is in Iraq" question. You may discuss that all you wish, and I might even read it, but that is not what THIS thread is about. For anyone with a GT under 7, the question was:

Knowing what we know NOW, should we have invaded IN THE FIRST PLACE?

"Life in Iraq" does not figure into this discussion.

Anyone who wishes to make character judgments who has never met me defines their character by doing so, as well as their own ignorance. While I'm at it, the mission in Panama was not a soldier going to earn his pay or do his duty to defend his country or anything so noble, but I wouldn't expect you to know that. The details of that mission are for another thread, or not at all.

I disagree with your definition of a soldier's duty as carrying out the policy of the nation, but nice to know the brainwashing has taken effect. I swore to uphold the laws of the country, to protect my fellow countrymen and defend it from all threats foreign and domestic, but not to act as muscle for a dictator exercising power that he does not lawfully have.

This really is it for my responses. I remember now why I never come to this side of the forum.
 
While I'm at it, the mission in Panama was not a soldier going to earn his pay or do his duty to defend his country or anything so noble
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I was in graduate school at the time, and had a student friend from Panama - the news reports essentially indicated that the people in Panama were asking us to invade. When I asked my friend if that was true, he practically went ballistic - his input can be distilled here as "No we don't like Noriega, but we don't want the United States to invade us".
 
No it pretty easy to determine someone character by a statement like you made. You were sent to do what soldiers exist to do and you didn't like it. So you had to kill people, did you not think killing is part of the profession? Like it or not we are paid to kill people, to leave this country on command and destroy, that is why we exist and at least my recruiter told me I would do if I stayed in the Marine Corps long enough.

And yes knowing what I know today it should have happen. The war makes allot of strategic sense and our offense in Iraq has made their offense in the US less more difficult.
 
I can make arguments against and for it.

We should be there: Japan attacks us, we attack Germany. True, tehy declared war on us. Radical Islam declared war on us how long ago? Just because they aren't the initiators, doesn't mean that they aren't supporting it. We had to go throught France to get to Germany. We have to go through Iraq (or one of the other bigger Muslim countries) to get to the others, not physically, but mentally.

Plus, Saddam had plenty enough time to quit playing his games, and come out and say what we wanted to know, as required by the UN charter against him back from teh first go around.

We shouldn't be there: We shouldn't be policing the world, when we can't police our own borders. Our soldiers shouldn't be dying to give them something many don't even want, and some can't comprehend.

It doesn't really matter what I think. We are in now, the best thing we can do is stay through and do it right. I do not support staying forever, anymore than pulling out just to get the boys back home, and watching it all crumble.
 
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