Do you support the war in Iraq?

Do you support the war in Iraq?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 166 65.1%
  • No.

    Votes: 84 32.9%
  • Undecided/Don't Know/Don't care.

    Votes: 5 2.0%

  • Total voters
    255
Kyote: Butch & Defjon:

A topic I pulled from the Denver Post Saturday 27 Aug. 2005 A.P.: sub headline, "Bomb maker Deif saya group's goal to obliterate Israel". Because we have aligned our selves with Israel,we will be next. You can't see the forest for the trees. Stick your head in the sand if you want, time will bear me out. War is not pretty and this one most definitly will not be. I hope I'm not around to see it. I am thankfull that I leave no blood kin around to suffer what the peace nicks have gotten us into.

Kyote, did I misunderstand you that your solution is to exterminate the Muslim religion and all of it's adherents?

I am interested in your response. As to your query about have Muslims spoken out against terrorism, go to google and type in "Muslims against terrorism" and start reading, they are speaking out, vociferously.
 
I am advocating stabilizing the country - that means logistical, political, administrative work, civil engineering, and of course, given the present climate, providing aggressive security. The military should at this point not be there for combat, but for providing a deterrent to chaos, and for assisting with the above tasks.
A year ago I was all for that but now I have to ask where is the meaningful progress? There is little doubt among experts that our troop strength will be at critical levels a year from now. When do we address this serious problem that's facing us square in the face? Do we try to control events or just "keep the faith" and let the toss of a coin decide? Either institute the draft NOW in order to be prepared or accept that we don't have the resources (or the desire?) to complete our "wish list". We all know that the American public won't accept a draft. Our foreign policy is already influenced by the current shortage of American troops. Do we wait till we have little or NO options? Do we just pray that when we leave a year from now (very reduced reserves remaining) that Iraq will stand on it's own and survive? Why not spare American lives and adopt that "option" now? In reality we made this decision years ago when we opted to finance/downsize our Armed Forces to fight small, quick wars. We still for the most part have that same small Army. The only thing that's changed is the length of the conflict...it ain't small and it ain't quick!WHERE ARE THE RESOURCES THAT WILL PERMIT US TO STAY THE COURSE IN IRAQ? That is the logistical problem we must address NOW!
 
We all know that the American public won't accept a draft.

Won't accept it? Sure they will. Won't like it, no, but they will accept it.

If a draft isn't instituted then we will eventually find out how much real support the war has, potential recruits will vote with their feet. The problem is that this war is probably going to cause a negative ripple in recruitment for years and years to come - the kids that will be 18 in 8 years are all watching the news and deciding whether or not they want to be personally involved in that kind of war. Even assuming we leave Iraq soon, these same kids are going to remember that all it would take is one Presidential order to put them into a stupid war - so why take that chance and go in?

Long term downside to this war as well as the immediate downside. I hadn't thought about that until just now - I have been against this war because it is a stupid war that has a pie in the sky objective that isn't going to last after our troops are finally out. Now I see that we are going to weaken our defensive capabilities long term.

I served voluntarily in a draft army, and it was a POS army with very little discipline or desire - it wasn't 1% as good as it is today. If we have to go back to a draft army we are really stepping way back.
 
Interesting article from the NY Times - note that the author is not a liberal for those not in the know.

August 31, 2005
Invasion of the Isolationists
By FRANCIS FUKUYAMA
Washington

AS we mark four years since Sept. 11, 2001, one way to organize a review of what has happened in American foreign policy since that terrible day is with a question: To what extent has that policy flowed from the wellspring of American politics and culture, and to what extent has it flowed from the particularities of this president and this administration?

It is tempting to see continuity with the American character and foreign policy tradition in the Bush administration's response to 9/11, and many have done so. We have tended toward the forcefully unilateral when we have felt ourselves under duress; and we have spoken in highly idealistic cadences in such times, as well. Nevertheless, neither American political culture nor any underlying domestic pressures or constraints have determined the key decisions in American foreign policy since Sept. 11.

In the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, Americans would have allowed President Bush to lead them in any of several directions, and the nation was prepared to accept substantial risks and sacrifices. The Bush administration asked for no sacrifices from the average American, but after the quick fall of the Taliban it rolled the dice in a big way by moving to solve a longstanding problem only tangentially related to the threat from Al Qaeda - Iraq. In the process, it squandered the overwhelming public mandate it had received after Sept. 11. At the same time, it alienated most of its close allies, many of whom have since engaged in "soft balancing" against American influence, and stirred up anti-Americanism in the Middle East.

The Bush administration could instead have chosen to create a true alliance of democracies to fight the illiberal currents coming out of the Middle East. It could also have tightened economic sanctions and secured the return of arms inspectors to Iraq without going to war. It could have made a go at a new international regime to battle proliferation. All of these paths would have been in keeping with American foreign policy traditions. But Mr. Bush and his administration freely chose to do otherwise.

The administration's policy choices have not been restrained by domestic political concerns any more than by American foreign policy culture. Much has been made of the emergence of "red state" America, which supposedly constitutes the political base for President Bush's unilateralist foreign policy, and of the increased number of conservative Christians who supposedly shape the president's international agenda. But the extent and significance of these phenomena have been much exaggerated.

So much attention has been paid to these false determinants of administration policy that a different political dynamic has been underappreciated. Within the Republican Party, the Bush administration got support for the Iraq war from the neoconservatives (who lack a political base of their own but who provide considerable intellectual firepower) and from what Walter Russell Mead calls "Jacksonian America" - American nationalists whose instincts lead them toward a pugnacious isolationism.

Happenstance then magnified this unlikely alliance. Failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the inability to prove relevant connections between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda left the president, by the time of his second inaugural address, justifying the war exclusively in neoconservative terms: that is, as part of an idealistic policy of political transformation of the broader Middle East. The president's Jacksonian base, which provides the bulk of the troops serving and dying in Iraq, has no natural affinity for such a policy but would not abandon the commander in chief in the middle of a war, particularly if there is clear hope of success.

This war coalition is fragile, however, and vulnerable to mishap. If Jacksonians begin to perceive the war as unwinnable or a failure, there will be little future support for an expansive foreign policy that focuses on promoting democracy. That in turn could drive the 2008 Republican presidential primaries in ways likely to affect the future of American foreign policy as a whole.

Are we failing in Iraq? That's still unclear. The United States can control the situation militarily as long as it chooses to remain there in force, but our willingness to maintain the personnel levels necessary to stay the course is limited. The all-volunteer Army was never intended to fight a prolonged insurgency, and both the Army and Marine Corps face manpower and morale problems. While public support for staying in Iraq remains stable, powerful operational reasons are likely to drive the administration to lower force levels within the next year.

With the failure to secure Sunni support for the constitution and splits within the Shiite community, it seems increasingly unlikely that a strong and cohesive Iraqi government will be in place anytime soon. Indeed, the problem now will be to prevent Iraq's constituent groups from looking to their own militias rather than to the government for protection. If the United States withdraws prematurely, Iraq will slide into greater chaos. That would set off a chain of unfortunate events that will further damage American credibility around the world and ensure that the United States remains preoccupied with the Middle East to the detriment of other important regions - Asia, for example - for years to come.

We do not know what outcome we will face in Iraq. We do know that four years after 9/11, our whole foreign policy seems destined to rise or fall on the outcome of a war only marginally related to the source of what befell us on that day. There was nothing inevitable about this. There is everything to be regretted about it.

Francis Fukuyama, a professor of international political economy at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, is editorial board chairman of a new magazine, The American Interest.
 
I guess we ought to just throw in the towel and quit. Nobody knows what they are doing in the civilian leadership-when they are not lying to us, or profiting by association with (insert favorite corporation here).

The Army of the 70's was made fun of-the draft was bad, but when VOLAR arrived, it went through some real problems. How did we manage to field a force of the caliber we did in desert storm? I guess these people just showed up in senior and middle positions straight out of thin air.

The military is way too small-maybe we should just disband them because they aren't big enough to do anything, or just keep a force the size of which Canada keeps around. That way, we don't dare do anything outside of our own borders. We could be like Spain and maybe get used to the terrorists calling the shots when it pleases them. After all, nobody wants to serve anymore. At least not until a President they can agree with is elected.

Most of the brain power in this country seems to want to throw up its hands because it cannot see an easy answer. Strange-where did it all go? At the beginning of WWII, our military was rated slightly behind Bolivia, and that war was not won just by production. It took a lot of people thinking in different technologies and ways to do things differently. It also took men and women taking on an "impossible task" of training, motivating, fighting and learning by mistakes made. The terrorists are going to make it hard to deal with them, and apparently are completely unstoppable. Call the French-maybe they still have some white flags left.

Rant off.
 
I absolutely support the war. I firnly believe it was the right thing to do and served our best interests. I have several points to back this up.

#1. The war was 100% "legal". UN resolution 681 (IIRC) clearly stated that Saddam had to fully cooperate with UN inspectors, destroy all his WMD programs, and provide proof of their destruction. The resolution further stated that failure to comply would be grounds for "any member nation" to take such action as was necessary to force compliance, including military force.

#2. Saddam did have WMD's. Both sarin nerve agent and mustard gas were found early on in the war. Granted, they were not huge stockpiles, but he was not supposed to have any at all.

#3. Saddam did have ties to terrorists and Al Qaeda. It is well known that he sent money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. It is also known that high-ranking members of Al Qaeda spent time in Iraq. I doubt they were vacationing.

#4. The Bush Doctrine. I agree 100% that it would be reckless and negligent for the President to wait until we were attacked again before responding. It makes no sense to me to say that we should let another few thousand Americans die before we seek to remedy the problem. Saddam represented a threat, maybe not an imminent threat, but a definite threat. Removing him eliminated one major risk we had to worry about. Establishing a democracy in the region can do nothing but help to bring an end to islamic terrorism.
 
We aren't stretched too thin

The Air Force is sending 300 airmen from Iraq and Afghanistan to Mississippi to help in the relief effort. Thanks to Bush's leadership(?) I wouldn't be surprised if George will soon be asking for foreign aide. Calls for a federal investigation into Bush's incompetence are coming from democrats and republicans. The News media is still "picking-on" Bush, even Fox!
 
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