Do you know anyone who supports Giuliani?

I agree that the Confederacy is a thread hijack by the initial mentioners. The claim that the Confederacy was a bastion of freedom is just a variant of the 2nd Amend. supporters who claim it is the first freedom and then are stumped by the question of what freedoms they would fight for with guns, except for the ability to own guns. :D

Rudy vs. Hillary will be tough one. Neither are optimal gun candidates. The best hope is that both are pragmatic enough not to make the RKBA a major issue before or after the election.

We can thank George's skills and ability for probable Democratic win.
 
She is already talking antionalized healthcare... there may be hope here.

I disagree on there being a reasonable chance if it is Rudy vs. Hillary. They are too much the same to matter. Rudy is a Dem pretending to be a Rep and Hill is a Dem who is a Dem. She wins the Dem vote while Rudy only gets the part of the Rep vote that can stand the stink. The middle splits or goes slightly left thanks to runaway federal spending and the conduct of the war. Game Over.

Rudy will not hold the base and without the base he has ZERO chance of winning.

I won't vote for him and I am a registerred Rep from NY. How do you think he will fare in other states?
 
The best hope is that both are pragmatic enough not to make the RKBA a major issue before or after the election.
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That's the thing, isn't it? I doubt either of them have forgotten the lessons and fallout of AWB '94. I know that us gunowners gotta stay on our toes, but sometimes we dive off into GOA land with the paranoia. My hands are warm and alive.
 
A candidate that said enforcement of existing laws and no new ones would be our best bet.

On the state level, we can see more action on liberalizing laws (liberalizing ?). Getting rid of restricitions on shall issue carry, open carry, castle laws - things like that.

I doubt we could get major proactive gun laws passed on the federal level from any of the current set of candidates. Or major rollbacks of existing laws. We are lucky the AWB had a sunset or it would never had gone away.
 
Rudy will not hold the base and without the base he has ZERO chance of winning.
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If the base is that stupid they deserve Hillbama.

Rudy is a NYC political prosecutor. Most of his life has been spent with the law fighting crime.. He sees the world in black and white, ie you are good or bad, no nuances.. That is his stregnth and his weakness, depending on what side of the isle you are on. Furthermore as a lawyer and as a prosecutor, his position on rights will always be a bit suspect to some, since he will always seek a narrow interpretation, in contrast to someone who has spent his life as a defense lawyer and may seek an expansion of rights as the expense of society. In Rudys eyes the US government AND the law is "good". Your average American shares that view.

You worried about his position on gun control?..Parker will ease that although I dont even see gun control as an issue in this election at all since if Rudy wins he is stuck with the repub platform that the party will make him kowtow too.

Right now, he is the one who can beat Hilbama, basically because the vast and quiet members of the electorate share his values and views. Hillbama will be a creature of the far left and that will scare the voters. Rudy not being a creature of the far right will reassure them.

Time will tell with Fred.

WildreasonwillwinoveremotionAlaska TM
 
Alnamvet, will you still say that when he pulls his bully act and tells you you don't need a gun, the police have guns, the only people who need guns are people like VIPs, movie stars and rappers and your life isn't threatened?

Noo Yawk in-your-face shut-the-__-up-because-I-said-so belligerence doesn't cut it with me. How dare anyone question him, he was there on 9/11, don't you know that? 9/11 9/11 9/11, he was there on 9/11...trying to draw attention from the fact that it was his idea to put the disaster command center in a building most likely to be affected by a disaster. And that's all he offers.

Hypocrisy, rudeness, and belligerent attitude. Regular people don't need guns, he said so.
 
I'm not worried Maned...

it will take a hell of a lot more than a Presidential decree to outlaw the RKBA...I have faith that we as a nation are tired of our system of checks and balances largely ignored by the current regime...Rudy can be an ass, in a New York kinda' way, but he ain't no gwb...he will never get away with the crap that the current jerk has gotten away with so far.
 
Ah, the terrible President Bush, who allowed the assault weapons ban to expire, and who signed the Lawful Commerce in Arms act. He's been terrible for the right to keep and bear arms, all right. :rolleyes: Ask anyone who has recently purchased an evil black rifle or a mag that holds more than 10 rounds.

I love all of the predictions about how Hillbama will beat everyone else in the Presidential race. We have months and months until the election occurs. And several debates. Lots of time for things to happen until the election, folks.

Rudy has to convince the conservative Republican base that his views on gun control have changed. Whether he's successful or not remains to be seen. But if he obtains the nomination, and wins the presidential race, there will be far more scrutiny and pressure by Republicans for Rudy to forgo/veto gun control legislation vis-a-vis the same that Hillbama will be subject to from Democrats.
 
Noo Yawk in-your-face shut-the-__-up-because-I-said-so belligerence doesn't cut it with me.
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Thats what this country needs, havent had it since Teddy Roosevelt :)

Wildheylookyimfromnooyawktooguessitshowshuh:)Alaska TM
 
Rudy has to convince the conservative Republican base that his views on gun control have changed. Whether he's successful or not remains to be seen. But if he obtains the nomination, and wins the presidential race, there will be far more scrutiny and pressure by Republicans for Rudy to forgo/veto gun control legislation vis-a-vis the same that Hillbama will be subject to from Democrats.
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Fremmer why do you spoil a good pp match by being reasonable...

WildweneedpatpaulsonAlaska TM
 
WildAlaska said:
You worried about his position on gun control?..Parker will ease that although I dont even see gun control as an issue in this election at all since if Rudy wins he is stuck with the repub platform that the party will make him kowtow too.
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When is that kowtowing going to start?

I have heard nothing from him to suggest that he has changed his longstanding position that we should have to get permission before owning a handgun. That is the biggest disagreement I have with him on gun control. I still wonder why should I have to show a reason to have my handguns, or to buy more of them, and where does the Congress get the power to pass such a law?


If the Dems keep control of Congress, we will need someone who will say no to them on many issues, and gun control is an important one. Rudy is not the guy for that job.
 
applesanity wrote:Super-duper big time Grand Canyon straw man. Funny, I think I'm the only one around here that has a pro-confederate quote in his/her signature. But waayyy off topic.

1. Guliani is better than Hillary
2. Guliani has a viable chance of beating Hillary

Pragmatism.
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Wildalaska brought it up, not me.

What I think is funny is that everyone avoided the question I asked, which was waayyy on topic. Why engage in the same behavior on every election cycle and expect different results?

And, applesanity, you bring up an excellent point. Pragmatism is very alluring. Unfortunately, I am unable to find a historical example of a society which sacrificed principle for pragmatism and didn't end up under an oppressive regime. After all, gun control is a "pragmatic" approach to crime.
 
I would think any wife of Rudy would want to be able to reach him at any time... He just needs one of the plans that lets her know WHERE he is...

I remember the last person with no character put into the White House.
 
What I think is funny is that everyone avoided the question I asked, which was waayyy on topic. Why engage in the same behavior on every election cycle and expect different results?
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Actually I did, in post #30. The system will always be. The *MAN* will always be. Carthage was destroyed for no reason other than scoring political points. Learn to love the system. Dont fight it - embrace it. Revel in it.

Pragmatism is very alluring. Unfortunately, I am unable to find a historical example of a society which sacrificed principle for pragmatism and didn't end up under an oppressive regime. After all, gun control is a "pragmatic" approach to crime.
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Straw man. I don't think anyone here considers gun control to be a "pragmatic" approach to crime. More like... "feel good."

Why don't you guys think outside the one party-two faction box?
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You wanna get pragmatic? AWB was passed in '94. Clinton was pres in '94. Why? Because a bunch of Americans who probably would have otherwise voted for Bush I - assuming HW was more gun-rights friendly - voted for Ross Perot. Ouch.

On the other end of the spectrum, what about all those Florida residents who voted for Nader (but would have otherwise voted for Gore) in 2000? They were trying to get out of the "one party-two faction box." They were sticking to their principles instead of being realistic. What a backfire.

LaRouche 2008!
 
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