Do You Have To Talk To Police?

Truer words were never spoken. I had an attorney named Arthur Arduin tell me once, " When the cops are talkin' to ya, gettin' ya coffee, offerin' ya cigarettes, THEY'RE F---ING YOU!

One thing a cop won't do is convince you you have a case, when you don't, so he can milk every dime he can out of you....My neighbor was recently arrested for assault. He told me the facts (as he saw them) and I told him to plead guilty to the deal the prosecutor offered. He knew better and talked to a lawyer. That lawyer told him to take the deal. He "got a second opinion" from a lawyer who told him what he wanted to hear, turned down the deal, went to trial, and $60,000.00 later was found guilty...of a misdemeanor that should have been lowered to disorderly person and cost him about $200.00. But he felt good exercising his rights through is attorney.
 
My neighbor was recently arrested for assault.

Frank, what did he do?... not roll down his window :D (sorry Frank, that was a cheap shot at you bud).

Seriously, $60,000 and guilty, that must have been one heck of an assault :eek: .

And I agree, if an LEO is paying too much attention to you, it's not because they want you to be their new best friend.

Wayne
 
Depends upon the cop, we have some here in N.H. ( locals not troopers) who think they are Harry Callahan. I have seen more abuse and there have been numerous serious problems in the past years in the news . My wife stopped in a turnaround on the side of the road to get out due to a cramp and one of them grilled her, why are you here and she explained her cramp, where are you coming from, she explained home, where are you going, she explained work, are you sure, I need your license and registration. She is 52, dresses and looks professional and doesnt have purple hair with numerous tatto's etc, even if she did it doesnt make one a criminal! This happens more often in these 2 towns neighboring me than one would like to know. I always call the chief's and complain, I have to say my towns police do not treat everyone like criminals, my wife got stopped for doing 10 over going to work one morning in our town and they just gave her a warning, the other town gave her a ticket for 6 over in a 40 zone at 5 am with almost zero traffic. I was hunting in one of the other 2 neighboring towns 18 years ago and got a note on my windshield call the PD, the former chief informed me not to hunt in his town anymore and that he didnt like our kind in his town, I asked him what kind and he said HUNTERS! I called fish and game and wrote a letter to the AG's office, I was in the military home on leave and was not happy to say the least, I asked the AG is this freedom military members risk their live's for? There was an incident where one of these cops stopped a guy for speeding a few years ago, the cruiser was unmarked, the man told his 15 year old daughter to call 911 because the copm was being an A-Hole and he wasnt sure he was a cop, the cop told her not too but she did per dads instructions. The cop dragged him out of the vehicle in a chokehold and the guy told him when in cuffs he couldnt breathe and was having chest pains, the cop wouldnt back off and guess what, the guy died! All because the cop was pissed he told his daughter to call 911, this actually came out in the news report as to why the cop did it, he also said he thought the guy was faking a heart attack and while he had him in cuffs never called the ambulance until he collapsed DEAD! I never heard of the results of any lawsuit and after the investigation the cop wasnt charged with anything! Sadly some of the cops in one of the neighboring towns are worse than most they lockup, they have had numerous investigations, substantiated taking evidence, drinking while driving in the town cruisers CHIEF included, lying in court, abuse and harrassment of citizens, illegal search, and one is a former cocaine user and dealer admittedly but was never caught so no felony record, this all came out in the news during an investigation! Well guess what, the only one gone is the chief, the coke boy is still there! After investigation the state AG decided what they needed was more TRAINING!!!!! As a note the latest Chief who was there for 5 years was just canned after 3 suspensions that the details of were not released, he was charged with criminal threatening with a gun of his ex and her boyfriend but got off, now there is yet another new chief, all in about a 10 year span! There are many excellent cops who are decent and honest, but sadly scum like this give ALL cops a blackeye and most cops will turn them in as they know what can happen to good cops who turn in bad cops. Some cops the more you tell them the more you are suspect of who knows what, I always say answer with as few words as possible, dont lie but chose your words wisely! I was involved with one of these 2 neighboring PD's before my military career and they used to start fights on campus by telling one frat that the other was dissing them and then wait for the fight just so as they said, they could bust heads and kickass on the college punks, my involvement was short lived, this was before I knew who and what they were. My family has had many L.E.O.,s my dad a lieutenant and uncle a former chief included, my son is a federal agent and I respect them, but I also realize from experience and events that not all cops are in it for the same reason.
 
Seriously, $60,000 and guilty, that must have been one heck of an assault

Not really...just a plain old misdemeanor domestic....But his "good" lawyer drove up the costs with multiple court appearances, motions, private investigators, etc....I think the guy is half paranoid and the lawyer took full advantage of that. How hard would it be to rack up a bill of $60,000.00 at $300.00 per hour, and more for court time with a client who who didn't believe the first lawyer who told him "You don't have a case. I'm not going to take your money, but there are plenty of guys out there who will take whatever you give them."
 
geez, Yankee, please

make

paragraphs.

I guess I would talk to the police and smile and stuff. If my car was full of drugs or something I would peel out and run over his foot like those idiots you see on the video shows, thus signaling that I was a criminal. :p

I'm lucky in that I apparently have a "law-abiding" look. :)
 
Highway Justice?

If nothing else, this thread shows just how subjective "law enforcement" is and how way too much latitude is given to the cops. "Do what I want, and you get a warning. If I don't like your attitude, I yank you out of the car and get rough with you." Oh yeah? Yank THIS. :p

Having said that, if I were pulled over for some traffic violation, I would give basic information, simply because it lets me get on my way, and avoids the inevitable waste of time that results when some insecure cop overcompensating for other "shortages" feels the need to impose his will and his imagined superiority over you. To spell it out: you can be delayed (detained) until the cop is satisfied you aren't just leaving the scene of a homiced or toting drugs. This means he can ask you all sorts of boring little questions that help convince him you are a drug kingpin or establish your innocence. If you decline to answer, then he will have to take further measures, such as running a really THOROUGH check on you, that takes a LONG time, and waiting for the drug dog to sniff your car, and wait for backup because you seem dangerous. This is the pissing contest you have a great chance of entering and "winning?" by not cooperating. And before any of you law dogs chime in, don't bother denying it, cause I have first hand experience on both sides of the badge, kay? :)

As a little antectdote (sp?) I was traveling with my wife on a business trip to Arkansas. Our newborn son was riding in the back in his car seat. We came up on a trooper. I wasn't speeding. My car was in compliance. I was pulled over (wow, big surprise). He starts asking me all the "drug" questions: where was i gong, where was i staying, how long was i going to be there, hotel reservations, etc. anything to catch me in a lie. I am a middle aged guy traveling with my family. I am not in a 3 piece suit, but in the picture on my license I am in a shirt and tie. Then, get this, he asks, "Is that your wife?" He must of seen the change in my face, because the string of questions stopped abruptly. My tax dollars at work. Nice going, Dick Tracy. What was my crime? Driving a fancy car with tinted windows. ;)

If it were a matter of being questioned about an actual crime, the answer is quite different. Shut up and call the lawyer. Period.
 
To spell it out: you can be delayed (detained) until the cop is satisfied you aren't just leaving the scene of a homiced or toting drugs.

No you can't. Not constitutionally anyway unless the cop has more reasonable suspicion than for just a traffic violation.
 
Say what?

Frank--

Yes you can, and the constitution has very little to do with it, since you are not being arrested or searched. Furthermore, the terms you banty about such as "reasonable suspicion" are so vague and subjective as to become useless in limiting police powers. But finally, there is the real world vs. the imaginary one, or to put it another way, how it should be, vs. how it really is. Start challenging the cops authority next time you get pulled over. Tell us how it went.

While I'm at it, let me just clarify one thing. I am not making sweeping generalizations here aimed at every single cop who ever did the job. Theres a lot of good ones out there, and a few have posted here. However, there is more than enough of this going on to justify the mini-rant IMO.

The thing that is most troublesome to me about the current state of things is that more often than not, it is the people who can least afford a ticket who end up getting one, because they dont "look respectable." I can contrast my teens and early twenties with my 30's. Even though my driving habits have changed little, my appearance has changed a great deal. Young, long hair, hot rod=pulled over. Ticket if possible. Older, well dressed, short hair=slow it down. I am oversimplifying, but you get the idea.
 
Once while driving in Dallas I pulled up to a red light, a police man was in the right lane writing a ticket. I was in the middle lane. A car didn't stop behind me, rammed my rear bumper and backed up and took off around me in the left lane, thru the red light, thru cross traffic and disappeared. I sat there in shock and the cop looked up, the went back to what he was doing.

I pulled into the parking lot and got out and asked him if he was going to radio for help to catch the hit and run. He told me that there was nothing he could do and to forget about it. The rear of my car was pretty bent up. I asked him if he was going to at least acknowledge the incident with a report for my insuance company. He told me he was too busy.

So I called 911 and told the dispatcher that A: I was a victim of a hit and run and need a policeman and B: That a Dallas Police Office had witnessed the crime and was still on the scene and refusing to do anything about it and that I wanted to file a complaint against him.

5 Minutes later there were three more cruisers on the scene and these cops tell me in no uncertain terms that if I wanted a report for my insurance company they would be happy to provide one. They also told me that if I wanted to file a report on the officer that refused to do anything that they had my license number and that I would find it hard to drive 10 feet in Dallas without a ticket for the next 12 months. Straight up threatened me with abuse of power. They weren't the least bit bashful about it either.
 
Yes you can, and the constitution has very little to do with it, since you are not being arrested or searched. Furthermore, the terms you banty about such as "reasonable suspicion" are so vague and subjective as to become useless in limiting police powers. But finally, there is the real world vs. the imaginary one, or to put it another way, how it should be, vs. how it really is. Start challenging the cops authority next time you get pulled over. Tell us how it went.

Absent reasonable suspicion of anything more than a traffic stop, the police can detain you as long as it take to complete the business of a traffic stop. That means long enough to write a ticket for whatever violation they're writing you for, and running you and your car through the computer. If you're out there for a half hour for a speeding ticket, you've been detained too long. What you do about it is up to you, but the police can not do that to you "within the rules". "Reasonable Suspicion" isn't so vague as to justify the police holding you for an hour because a liquor store was held up 20 miles away two days ago by a guy described as a white male, 20-40 years old, in a blue ford and you happen to be white, 39, and driving a blue Taurus.

That's "within the rules". If you want to talk about what the police can get away with "outside the rules", if you're not willing to complain about it, we can talk about it about as long as it would take to discuss what regular motorists can get away with "outside the rules".
 
How hard would it be to rack up a bill of $60,000.00 at $300.00 per hour, and more for court time with a client who who didn't believe the first lawyer who told him "You don't have a case. I'm not going to take your money, but there are plenty of guys out there who will take whatever you give them."

OK, so your friend was a fool. When Arthur Arduin gave me that speech, well, put it this way, the cops put me in a cell, my lawyer got me OUT. 'nuff said.
 
OK, so your friend was a fool. When Arthur Arduin gave me that speech, well, put it this way, the cops put me in a cell, my lawyer got me OUT. 'nuff said.

The point wasn't that he was a fool, the point was that there are just as many lawyers who would screw you over for a dime as there are cops who would screw you over after you made admissions to them about your involvement in a crime.
 
The point wasn't that he was a fool, the point was that there are just as many lawyers who would screw you over for a dime as there are cops who would screw you over after you made admissions to them about your involvement in a crime.

The important difference is that I CHOOSE my lawyer. Which cop I get is a crapshoot. No one ever went to jail for saying too little.
 
No one ever went to jail for saying too little.

That's not true, plenty of people go to jail because they won't say anything to the cops. It may be a little more accurate to say "No one was ever convicted for saying too little".

Example: A guy shoots a burglar. Cops find a dead guy in a homeowner's living room. Homeowner says "I'm not saying anything." Homeowner gets arrested, taken to jail, and processed. The lawyer can get him out later after he talks to the judge and gets a writ. If he would have stated what happened, he probably would not have been arrested.
 
Frank is 100% right. It falls in the same category as an investigative detention. If you detain a person for any reason, you MUST be able to show that all actions taken were taken or attempted in a reasonable time frame. Anything else is illegal detention. For example, I Terry stop a man that vaguely matches the description of a burglary suspect at 0300. The burglary happened one block away, 15 minutes prior. He has no ID. I can detain him only long enough to establish his identity and whether or not he was involved. You can't take a lunch break during this; every minute must be an active attempt to find out if he's involved. But here's the kicker. Let's say NCIC/LEADS is down, and won't be back up until 0600. If that's the only way I can ID him, I can detain him until then. For a simple traffic violation, the officer better have a good explanation if it took him 30 minutes to write a citation, and there was no other reason to detain.

They also told me that if I wanted to file a report on the officer that refused to do anything that they had my license number and that I would find it hard to drive 10 feet in Dallas without a ticket for the next 12 months. Straight up threatened me with abuse of power. They weren't the least bit bashful about it either.
Butch50, Dallas has a very good Internal Affairs Division. You should have gone to them. Cops under investigation by IA are prohibited from having contact with a complainant, and were they to do what they threatened, it would be intimidation of a witness, which is a felony.
 
No you can't. Not constitutionally anyway unless the cop has more reasonable suspicion than for just a traffic violation.

My BS meter pegged on this one. In reality the plolice can hold you if they feel like it and the only way you can do anything without coming to violence is file a suit. What with the way the courts are coming down on the side of tyranny, It wont be long before people start to realize they can't get justice legally. Then they will start with street justice, and it appears that just what todays JBT deserves, becasue they have litle respect for rights anymore.
 
I'd like to nominate Capt Charlie for "Good Cop of the Week". That was the BEST suggestion I've seen on here in a LONG time, ESPECIALLY from a LEO.
 
Originally posted by MikeTx:

My BS meter pegged on this one. In reality the plolice can hold you if they feel like it and the only way you can do anything without coming to violence is file a suit. What with the way the courts are coming down on the side of tyranny, It wont be long before people start to realize they can't get justice legally. Then they will start with street justice, and it appears that just what todays JBT deserves, becasue they have litle respect for rights anymore.
Okay, you've stated it now. You don't like "the Police", any Police. We get it. Understand that blank slate hate is irrational, among other things.
screwy.gif
 
Hail Schutzstaffel. It's just a matter of time until you guys start guning down home owners for refusing to leave their property after the government decrees it is theirs.
 
Whats wrong Mike? That last seatbelt ticket piss you off?

Im sure the relationship you have with the local fuzz is a get what you give scenario.
 
Back
Top