TheeBadOne
Moderator
Traffic laws are about safety. So is enforcement of those laws (nay sayers not withstanding).
http://nhtsa.gov/people/Crash/LCOD/index.htm
http://nhtsa.gov/people/Crash/LCOD/index.htm
Do You Have To Talk To Police?
- Thread starter VirgilCaine
- Start date
Public safety isn't what it is ALL about. I have seen way too many people pulled over and given fines for things that were not endangering anyone, and so have you - you never knew someone who got a ticket for doing 40 in a 35 when they were the only car within a mile? Like any power it gets abused, and it gets abused something awful too. Surely you have personal knowledge of speed trap towns? Nolanville Texas? Tushka Oklahoma? Bet you know of some. Bet you know of places in your normal driving area where the rolling meter maids have a habit of parking behind an overpass or around a curve or whatever, and you know you better not be doing more than 2mph over the speed limit when you go through there too....
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
The courts, city coffers, doughnut fund. I really don't give a damn where the money goes, and neither do most other cops. What I DO care about is preventing accidents. If a warning won't get it through some thick heads that what they're doing is dangerous, then maybe a hit in the pocketbook will. And while I've heard of depts. that stop and cite for 5 over (and I'm sure there's some out there), I've never seen one and I don't stop until 10+ over. Except for school zones, I don't write until 15+ over unless there's other reckless behavior involved. I would MUCH rather piss some TFL members off than scrape one more mess of bloody hamburger out of what used to be a motor vehicle.
Capt Charlie - for every one like you there are a dozen that will write you up for 1mph over if they are in the mood. I guess I am guilty of the sin of generalizing, shame on me.
Like all people in all walks of life there are good ones and bad ones. I personallhy received a ticket once for going 51mph in a 50mph zone. I was driving down Texas Hwy 180 and at the top of the hill it was 55mph, at the bottom of a very steep gradient it was 50mph speed limit. Even though I had dropped 4 mph going down that hill I still got a ticket - no safety issues involved there at all. Nolanville had extended it's city limits to the bottom of that hill (and it was probaly 5 miles away from the town itself) and changed the speed limit at the bottom just to take advantage of people - a town of about 1,500 had 10 or 15 full time cops that did nothing but patrol their section of 180 and write tickets.
I have seen tons of similar BS tickets and received a few more myself.
Like all people in all walks of life there are good ones and bad ones. I personallhy received a ticket once for going 51mph in a 50mph zone. I was driving down Texas Hwy 180 and at the top of the hill it was 55mph, at the bottom of a very steep gradient it was 50mph speed limit. Even though I had dropped 4 mph going down that hill I still got a ticket - no safety issues involved there at all. Nolanville had extended it's city limits to the bottom of that hill (and it was probaly 5 miles away from the town itself) and changed the speed limit at the bottom just to take advantage of people - a town of about 1,500 had 10 or 15 full time cops that did nothing but patrol their section of 180 and write tickets.
I have seen tons of similar BS tickets and received a few more myself.
Hunter Rose
New member
Heh: in general, any time I'm stopped it goes like this:
-Pull over, turn off headlights, turn on dome light
-Roll window down, liscense out window in left hand, right hand at 12 on steering wheel
-Guage officer's attitude (is he respectful? Pissy? Rude?). Respond accordingly...
I had an officer stop me for suspected DWI (I had just left a bar, and the alchohol didn't hit me until AFTER I was on my way home). By returning the respectful attitude he had, I recieved a warning.
I've also had officers come across with all KINDS of attitude. I remain as respectful as possible, but make sure I have their name and badge number (so I mention the right person when talking to their superiors)
-Pull over, turn off headlights, turn on dome light
-Roll window down, liscense out window in left hand, right hand at 12 on steering wheel
-Guage officer's attitude (is he respectful? Pissy? Rude?). Respond accordingly...
I had an officer stop me for suspected DWI (I had just left a bar, and the alchohol didn't hit me until AFTER I was on my way home). By returning the respectful attitude he had, I recieved a warning.
I've also had officers come across with all KINDS of attitude. I remain as respectful as possible, but make sure I have their name and badge number (so I mention the right person when talking to their superiors)
Well...
Having driven for 35 years, I've been pulled over a few times...And for the most part the LEOs were very courteous, and because of that I cooperated. (But doesn't mean I offered any info without being asked...However, the last couple times have been a different story... The most recent time, I was tooling down open (virtually no other traffic) the highway doing EXACTLY the speed limit(in and area where 90% of the vehicles are usually speeding), when I passed a State Trooper (who are generally a cut above the locals anyway.) He pulled out and hit his lights, so I pulled over, having NO IDEA why he was stopping me...
He had...get this...stopped me because the window tint on the car was too dark! (Now, I know there are rules and regulations for this, as its a matter of safety for the LEOs, so they can see what's going on inside the car). Now, here's the deal...While the windows were tinted, you could easily see through the car from one side to the other (you could look in the drivers window and see what was on the outside of the passenger side.) AND they were considerably lighter tint than my sisters BRAND NEW CAR, that came with factory tint windows. AND they've been tinted like that since I got the car 5 YEARS AGO.
AND THEN, he proceeds to tell me that the exhaust was too loud, as it had a "high flow" muffler on it (also 5 years old). Now, I've owned 5 similar cars (same make/model, 2 different years--Firebirds) and I know that it was no louder than the stock exhaust, on any of them, and 4 of the 5 were modified similarly. In short, the car was not at all loud, especially compared to even some factory available high-performance cars.
So, I got a ticket for BOTH the window tint and the exhaust. And yes, I argued about it with him. This was definitely a situation where a warning was more than adequate. I didn't care if the windows were tinted or not(I removed it to avoid future hassles), and as I mentioned the exhaust was no louder than a stock exhaust, on that car.
If I had been speeding, or doing something else unsafe, I would have sucked it up, and taken the hit. But this is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?
(P.S. It was the end of the month...so I figured he needed to "make quota"..Sheesh!)
While I have great respect and admiration for most LEOs, its idiots like this that cause people to lose respect for them(I train dogs, and know many K-9 officers from alll over the country, and a few overseas). And, over the last few years, I see more and more of the ones that engender enmity in the general public. Wish it weren't that way, but that's the trend I see.
Having driven for 35 years, I've been pulled over a few times...And for the most part the LEOs were very courteous, and because of that I cooperated. (But doesn't mean I offered any info without being asked...However, the last couple times have been a different story... The most recent time, I was tooling down open (virtually no other traffic) the highway doing EXACTLY the speed limit(in and area where 90% of the vehicles are usually speeding), when I passed a State Trooper (who are generally a cut above the locals anyway.) He pulled out and hit his lights, so I pulled over, having NO IDEA why he was stopping me...
He had...get this...stopped me because the window tint on the car was too dark! (Now, I know there are rules and regulations for this, as its a matter of safety for the LEOs, so they can see what's going on inside the car). Now, here's the deal...While the windows were tinted, you could easily see through the car from one side to the other (you could look in the drivers window and see what was on the outside of the passenger side.) AND they were considerably lighter tint than my sisters BRAND NEW CAR, that came with factory tint windows. AND they've been tinted like that since I got the car 5 YEARS AGO.
AND THEN, he proceeds to tell me that the exhaust was too loud, as it had a "high flow" muffler on it (also 5 years old). Now, I've owned 5 similar cars (same make/model, 2 different years--Firebirds) and I know that it was no louder than the stock exhaust, on any of them, and 4 of the 5 were modified similarly. In short, the car was not at all loud, especially compared to even some factory available high-performance cars.
So, I got a ticket for BOTH the window tint and the exhaust. And yes, I argued about it with him. This was definitely a situation where a warning was more than adequate. I didn't care if the windows were tinted or not(I removed it to avoid future hassles), and as I mentioned the exhaust was no louder than a stock exhaust, on that car.
If I had been speeding, or doing something else unsafe, I would have sucked it up, and taken the hit. But this is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?
(P.S. It was the end of the month...so I figured he needed to "make quota"..Sheesh!)
While I have great respect and admiration for most LEOs, its idiots like this that cause people to lose respect for them(I train dogs, and know many K-9 officers from alll over the country, and a few overseas). And, over the last few years, I see more and more of the ones that engender enmity in the general public. Wish it weren't that way, but that's the trend I see.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Generalizing and painting with a broad brush. According to you, there's just about nothing but bad Cops (1 out of 13 are good, the rest are bad).
I've told you a million times not to exagerate....
Do You Have to Talk to the Police?
Oh, for the days of the great Homer Garrison,Jr. head of the Texas Highway Patrol, Dept. of Public Safety in Texas!
His Highway Patrolmen were the most curteous, devoted LEOs of that time as well as underpaid as are all Texas employees. They had a lot of pride and most citizens were proud of them.
Today they are not Patrolmen, just Troopers and in a lot of cases revenuers looking mostly for seat belt violations, expired safety stickers and open alcohol containers in a vehicle. As yet it is hard to decide whether they work for the State of Texas or Mad Mothers against "drunks"? Or the
feather merchants in Washington who keep passing inane legislation and threaten the State with "No Highway Funds unless you enforce this or that".
I haven't been pulled over in years, never had a DWI or drunk in car, so don't know why I'm griping!
Oh, for the days of the great Homer Garrison,Jr. head of the Texas Highway Patrol, Dept. of Public Safety in Texas!
His Highway Patrolmen were the most curteous, devoted LEOs of that time as well as underpaid as are all Texas employees. They had a lot of pride and most citizens were proud of them.
Today they are not Patrolmen, just Troopers and in a lot of cases revenuers looking mostly for seat belt violations, expired safety stickers and open alcohol containers in a vehicle. As yet it is hard to decide whether they work for the State of Texas or Mad Mothers against "drunks"? Or the
feather merchants in Washington who keep passing inane legislation and threaten the State with "No Highway Funds unless you enforce this or that".
I haven't been pulled over in years, never had a DWI or drunk in car, so don't know why I'm griping!
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Some real world facts and statistics
"JohnBT
Knowing that everything you say will be used against you? Oh, thats right, you're LEO huh? You'd just have to flash your badge, so your answer is a little invalid. What about us citizens?
No offense, just took it as a citizen question."
________________
Um, what are you talking about? My father was a Virginia Trooper back after WWII, but I've never been in law enforcement.
Talking is only dangerous if you're prone to putting your foot in your mouth.
John
Knowing that everything you say will be used against you? Oh, thats right, you're LEO huh? You'd just have to flash your badge, so your answer is a little invalid. What about us citizens?
No offense, just took it as a citizen question."
________________
Um, what are you talking about? My father was a Virginia Trooper back after WWII, but I've never been in law enforcement.
Talking is only dangerous if you're prone to putting your foot in your mouth.
John
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Facts
The Vietnam War lasted a decade and was (and is) an incredibly emotional subject based on American soldier's KIA. The conflict lasted a decade and 47,410 US soldiers were KIA.
Every year US traffic fatalities average around 43,000 (a steady statistic).
This means that every year we lose the equivalent of the entire Vietnam conflict on our streets and highways! EVERY year!
We as a society have grown numb to traffic accidents/deaths. People are being slaughtered out there and it doesn't register, we've grown use to it. What we haven't grown use to is violent death. If a traffic accident happens nearby and 2 are killed, it's section D page 2 in the paper, if it makes it at all.
That same day, if there was a shooting downtown where 1 person was injured (much less killed) it would be headline news and may even dominate the media over the course of the week.
Stay Safe Out There
The Vietnam War lasted a decade and was (and is) an incredibly emotional subject based on American soldier's KIA. The conflict lasted a decade and 47,410 US soldiers were KIA.
Every year US traffic fatalities average around 43,000 (a steady statistic).
This means that every year we lose the equivalent of the entire Vietnam conflict on our streets and highways! EVERY year!
We as a society have grown numb to traffic accidents/deaths. People are being slaughtered out there and it doesn't register, we've grown use to it. What we haven't grown use to is violent death. If a traffic accident happens nearby and 2 are killed, it's section D page 2 in the paper, if it makes it at all.
That same day, if there was a shooting downtown where 1 person was injured (much less killed) it would be headline news and may even dominate the media over the course of the week.
Stay Safe Out There
Rich Lucibella
Staff
TBO-
Great argument for educating the public. No argument for policing them, IMHO.
There's only two possible arguments for the government's right to protect people from themselves by use of force:
1) The People are in service to the state and the State may decide what is best for each individual, regardless of whether his actions affect anyone around him.
2) In defense of the "Peoples'" Children. (That's the one we usually select for the ".gov Knows Best" argument.)
Parents regularly expose children to second hand smoke, swimming pools, bullies, ice hockey, sand lot football, bicycles, mini-bikes, ATV's, poor moral values, poor self esteem, neighborhood sex offenders, teacher sex offenders, clergy sex offenders, alcohol abuse, poor eating habits, bad food, unhealthy food, mindless TV and simple poor parenting.
There is no excuse for poor parenting. But the answer isn't to police each of these activities; it's to educate and hope for the best. There simply is no end to the lengths you might go to keep people safe from themselves or their parents.
The question on the floor is, "At what cost".
Rich
Great argument for educating the public. No argument for policing them, IMHO.
There's only two possible arguments for the government's right to protect people from themselves by use of force:
1) The People are in service to the state and the State may decide what is best for each individual, regardless of whether his actions affect anyone around him.
2) In defense of the "Peoples'" Children. (That's the one we usually select for the ".gov Knows Best" argument.)
Parents regularly expose children to second hand smoke, swimming pools, bullies, ice hockey, sand lot football, bicycles, mini-bikes, ATV's, poor moral values, poor self esteem, neighborhood sex offenders, teacher sex offenders, clergy sex offenders, alcohol abuse, poor eating habits, bad food, unhealthy food, mindless TV and simple poor parenting.
There is no excuse for poor parenting. But the answer isn't to police each of these activities; it's to educate and hope for the best. There simply is no end to the lengths you might go to keep people safe from themselves or their parents.
The question on the floor is, "At what cost".
Rich
Rich Lucibella
Staff
As would then be the "good citizen ratio".
If this thread degenerates further there WILL be some adjustments made. Kindly knock it off.
Rich
Edward429451
Moderator
Whoops, you must not be the man I'm thinking of.
There's a LEO that calls himself JohnBT and I thought you were him. Sorry.------------------------------------------------------------------------\
BTW! Got pulled over today. He said he couldn't see my seatbelt against my dark shirt. When he seen I had it on when he walked up to my truck, he proceeded to have me test all my lights for him.
Broad daylight. He acted like he was looking for a reason to write me. Revenue you know. I suppose I was submissive enough for him because he didn't write me for the cracked windshield. Maybe I should've licked his hand for being nice about that. He still made me late though. He sure didn't want to search though with all the furnace & A/C stuff piled up in the back. I think that clicket or ticket stuff is just preemptive probable cause of sorts. Oh I didn't see you were wearing your seatbelt, but since I'm here, what else ya got?
Hunter Rose
New member
Edward: I think you're probably right about the "Clickit or Ticket" stuff...
I actually had a fun one when I started riding a motorcycle. Thought my speedo was off, so *I* approached a stopped County officer, and asked her to clock me to verify. She did (turned out it was about 5 mph off). The she proceeds to run the tags, and start asking questions about what's in my saddlebags. I finally asked her point-blank: "If I had something to hide, do you think I would've stopped to ask your help with the speedo?". She didn't have a response...
I actually had a fun one when I started riding a motorcycle. Thought my speedo was off, so *I* approached a stopped County officer, and asked her to clock me to verify. She did (turned out it was about 5 mph off). The she proceeds to run the tags, and start asking questions about what's in my saddlebags. I finally asked her point-blank: "If I had something to hide, do you think I would've stopped to ask your help with the speedo?". She didn't have a response...
Easy answer to this one
Treat others as you want to be treated.
99.999999999% of the officers out there are only doing a job and trying to do the best job they can.
If you ack like an a--, then you deserve to be treated like one.
If you think all cops are bad, then think what life would be like without any.
I am not a cop and never been one, but I am lucky in that I have friends that are.
Treat others as you want to be treated.
99.999999999% of the officers out there are only doing a job and trying to do the best job they can.
If you ack like an a--, then you deserve to be treated like one.
If you think all cops are bad, then think what life would be like without any.
I am not a cop and never been one, but I am lucky in that I have friends that are.
locked'n'cocked
New member
it would be kind of nice if you didnt have to talk to them. the cops around here arn't to friendly, most dont even wave back if you wave at them. about the abuse of power thing earlier, it happens. on a side note, about the last week of every month there are a lot more cops out than usual, it is not uncommon to see 3-4 people pulled over at a time on the highway near my house. quotas maybe?
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Destructo6
New member
For DHS, flashing your badge (improper use of credentials) is a serious offense, like a lose your job kind of offense. I can't vouch for other agencies, but...