Do you disclose CCW when stopped by LEO ?

you're required to disclose in TX, but I probably would anyway. Whan I had my wreck last week the deputy wanted to know if "my piece was loose"...lol...I told him I had it and it was secured in my wife's car (she beat him to the scene) and all was good.

ahem...WildtheaveragejoeAlaska

WHATEVER! j/k Ken, good to see ya, thanks for the fast shipping on the mags!
 
RIght, and I still fail to see what that has to do with the Fifth Amendment. You alter your driving habits (or behavior as he says) and you aren't going to get pulled over. The guy driving at 65mph (if that's the speed limit) most likely isn't going to be bothered by a cop, as opposed to the guy that is doing 85mph in a 65 zone. Same with what you drive. You drive a car that has missing taillights, you will get pulled over. While most people consider such actions minor, you are in fact already BREAKING the law by doing the above items.
 
there's a part that says something about self incrimination..may not mean anything to you, but I see the 4th and 5th Amendments as sacrosanct
 
The 4th and 5th amendments have NOTHING to do with advising an officer of wheter you are carryinng a lawful CCW

WildwhatsillinessAlaska
 
Irrelevant. If you are legally carrying a concealed weapon, you are not 'incriminating yourself' by showing your license.

All in all, always remember that there are two interpretations to any law...the letter and the spirit. It's up to you to decide which to abide by in your particular situation. Just don't be surprised if the cops don't fully appreciate your desire to adhere to your belief that 'concealed means concealed'..

I've always said that during an encounter with the local law may not always be the appropriate time to make a political statement or to take a stance on anything other than 'what is it gonna take to let me be on my way'...
 
Another thought would be to alter the behavior that causes one to be stopped by the police in the first place.
Click to expand...

While in most cases this is true, it does not apply for all cases. For example, even if you drive perfect, and make no mistakes, what about when your tail light or brake light burns out? It happens. Or what if someone hits you? There are all kinds of reasons to need to give an officer your "papers" that don't involve any negligence or wrong doing on your part.

Heck, the police can even make a mistake. I was pulled over once and told my tabs were expired. I said "No, they're not." He said "Yes, they are." I said again "No, they aren't." He then asked me to step out of the vehicle and come to the back with him to look at the plate. We did, and they were not expired. He was sorry, and left fairly quickly after that, but he still ran my licence. I never said anything about CCW. Didn't even think about it, because the whole thing was so bizaare. It just never crossed my mind. And in Washington you are not required to tell, nor are you required to hand your weapon. (This is what the sherriff told me when I got the permit)
 
Trigger happy

With that kind of attitude I am surprised you are able to go CCW.
In Florida most of the people are hispanic and so are the police % wise. So what would be the big deal???

I feel you are just being a responsible citizen and if you can't be responsible, who would give you a gun permit or why?

HQ
 
For decades, the "driving while Black or brown" phenomenon was well known in the minority population, but largely unnoticed among other Americans. But beginning in the 1990's, empirical evidence emerged to support the anecdotal accounts of racial profiling on America's highways. This evidence demonstrated that Black and other minority motorists were and are being stopped at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the overall population or on the highways. For example:

A U.S. Department of Justice report on police contacts with the public concluded that in 1999, African Americans were 20 percent more likely to be stopped than White Americans, and 50 percent more likely than Whites to have experienced more than one stop.19 Police were more than twice as likely to search an African American or Hispanic driver than a White driver.20
In the three-year period from January 1995 to December 1997, Blacks comprised more than 70 percent of the drivers stopped and searched by the Maryland State Highway Patrol, although they made up only 17.5 percent of the overall drivers (and overall speeders).21 These disparities were explained by a state document called the "Criminal Intelligence Report," which contained an explicit policy targeting Black motorists.22
A study of traffic stops on the New Jersey Turnpike between 1988-1991 found that Blacks were 35 percent of those stopped, though only 13.5 percent of the cars on the turnpike had a Black occupant and Blacks were only 15 percent of all traffic violators.23 A 1999 State Attorney General's Report studying Turnpike stops and searches in 1997-1998 concluded that almost 80 percent of searches involved Blacks and other minorities.24
In the early 1990's, an investigation of the practices of the Volusia County, Florida Sheriff's Department revealed that although Blacks or Hispanics were only five percent of the drivers on a portion of I-95 that ran through the county, they were nearly 70 percent of drivers stopped on that stretch of highway. Blacks and Hispanics were not only stopped more than Whites, they were also stopped for longer periods of time than Whites.25
Recent studies confirm the persistence of the "driving while Black or brown" phenomenon. LAPD data for the period July-November 2002 reveals that while Blacks comprised only 10 percent of the overall population of Los Angeles, they were 18 percent of those subjected to traffic stops. Moreover, 22 percent of Blacks who were stopped were asked to step out of their cars, as compared to only seven percent of Whites stopped. Once out of their cars, 67 percent of Blacks were patted down and 85 percent subjected to a body search. Fifty-five percent of Hispanics removed from their cars were patted down and 84 percent searched. By contrast, only 50 percent of Whites were patted down and 71 percent searched.26
 
Sooooo.....what's your point?

This is a thread about whether or not you should let an officer conducting a traffic stop know that you are carrying...not an opportunity to launch into a diatribe about the injustices of racial profiling.

Nobody is saying it doesn't happen...we're saying that your attempt to justify your cavalier attitudes about whether or not you should let a cop know you're legally carring concealed by citing the 4th and 5th Amendments only highlight the fact that you need to go back and actually learn more than soundbites about the U.S. Constitution and smacks of a certain ignorance.

Wanna know why most people get patted down? Black, white, hispanic, asian.... I promise you that - regardless of the reason for the stop - most of these people were...shall we say....less than cooperative? Like I said, during a traffic stop is not the appropriate time to stand up for your political beliefs.

Oh....and statistics will say anything the author wants them to say. Quoting a study with a bunch of statistics isn't usually the best way to win an argument.
 
So...If you were stopped and the search began

Trigger Happy...

When is it you would say, hey wait! I am armed! (after they throw you to the ground or shoot you)?

Curious as to how far you are going to carry your charade?

HQ
 
Like AK said, here in PA, we're not required to disclose to LEOs that we are armed when traffic or "terry" stopped. However, like others, I do. I think it's just good manners when dealing with the law, so that there are no suprises. Those who walk the "thin blue line" are already in Code Orange when they come up to your driver's window. Too many traffic stops have gone bad here in PA recently, and at least one officer has been critically injured or killed because of it. The situation is stressful enough...let's not make it any harder on them. They're honestly just doing what their job is - what we, the taxpayers, pay them to do.

Trigger Happy, as much as I would like to admire your points, I can't. I too feel you need to not make something as a police officer talking to you or asking you questions as a racial "stabbing" of your civil rights. Yes, it's unfortunate that minorities get targeted by law enforcement and the justice system. Can I point out something else? Blacks make up 13% of the general population, yet make up 80% of the correctional system inmate population. That's a BIG number.

The Boys In Blue may not like using these statistics, but it keeps them alive. Ignorance of that fact has KILLED good cops.

I've also worked in a field where I had to be concerned about somebody I investigated or questioned being armed. Let me tell you this: If you fail to disclose to me that you're armed, then turn around and I search you and find a gun, a magazine/speedloader, or even a single solitary cartridge...you'll be eating floor tire, asphalt, or the wall!

So do us all a favor: Feel free to have your political views, but respect the views of others. Like my old chief (a veteran police officer) told me and others, "I've been shot at, punched, kicked, hit with a car, and been cursed at. But I would put my life on the line to protect these same people. That's my sworn oath to myself, others, and God."

It's called "mutual courtesy".

-38SnubFan
 
Here in NC I'm required by law to notify a LEO if I'm stopped or otherwise in their presence. I'm also required to surrender the weapon for the duration of the encounter if asked to do so. I got pulled over a few years ago , kept both hands on the wheel and notified the trooper immediately . He asked me to hand him the weapon with my left hand and then scolded me for carrying condition 1. LOL. Didn't bother to tell him I was left handed after that. He never asked to see my permit. I'm guessing it's attached to my driver's license in the computer. The officer was very courteous other than returning the weapon to me in about 15 pieces included a handful of ammo and an empty mag. I was doing 77mph in a 55 and got a warning ticket. Somehow I got the feeling he didn't like hanging out with armed civilians.
 
Trigger Happy

Let's go off on your tangent for just a moment.

I work for the only department in the United States that has successfully completed a U.S. Justice Dept. Consent Decree. It took us seven long years to accomplish that, and constantly being under the thumb of DOJ was not a picnic.

We conducted quarterly risk assessment audits with DOJ personnel present for every one of them. The audits essentially consisted of two areas: charging practices in those areas easily abused, and racial bias. The charges tracked included things like Obstruction of Justice, Resisting Arrest, Disorderly Conduct, etc. Possible racial bias was also tracked, and red flags went up on any officers who's stops involved 30% or more minorities. The red flags resulted in a microscopic analysis of the officer's actions, review of VICS tapes, private interviews with those the officer had encountered, etc.

Sounds good, so far, right? It would've been, had DOJ used a lick of common sense, which they're apparently incapable of. They analyzed the data statistically, which might work with a large dept. like LA or NYPD, but for a smaller dept. of 50 officers with statistically insignificant numbers, officers were being unfairly branded as biased.

Let me put it this way. You're a cop on my dept. You do your job well, but you work a sector with little activity in the way of resisting arrest. You charged two people last quarter with resisting, one white, and one black. You are now at 50% minority involvement and you're red flagged. Your professional life just became a living hell.

So much for statistics, huh?

By the way, in our 7 years under the decree, there was not one single allegation of racial bias sustained by USDOJ.

Now.... back to the thread topic ;) .
 
Ok is it safe to go back to the topic?I had a carry permit in pa,i'm now in NJ.However if i was to get pulled over i would have handed over my card with my other papers.Only for the fact that was mentioned previously.I'm never in the mood to get shot for rolling through a red light or for speeding.I want them to know i am armed and then let them decide how to handle it.I have the utmost respect for law enforcement.I have close family in law enforcement and i know what they go throughon the job.I can safely say that any time i have been stopped it was for some action i took.
 
We are required to inform the leo of our license and whether or not we're carrying. So far it hasn't happened to me yet. Only time I've ever had to show it so far is when a guy tried to do me in with a bat and I had to draw on him.
 
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