Do You Buy Innovative Handguns?

^ I didn't know about this VolleyFire or that it existed, yet I just looked and saw my comment from last year about it on TTAG.

Yeah, what an "invoative" pistol. I'll say the same thing I said last year about it: pass.

I don't like it being in .25 ACP, ammo is costly compared to .22 LR and Mag. For defense, it's not even as powerful as .22 LR. Why would anyone buy it compared to a .25 Beretta? Or a Raven .25 that holds the same amount of rounds, but gives an extra 3 shots and faster reloads?

At least with .22 Mag, with a firing pin hitting two cartridges, it can mitigate the misfires of rimfire, so at least one shot would go off. Then, if both fired, two hits would be better than one. Even then, I'd rather have it in .22 LR and just for a range toy, which is what most "invoative" guns are.

I doubt the gun will ever come out because nobody will be willing to pay more than $200 for it.
 
Sometimes I do.

Sometimes it works out--my STI GP6 (Grand Power K100) has been a winner.

Sometimes it doesn't--my Caracal was recalled.
 
The rotating barrel isn't a new idea but I think the Beretta PX4 Storm was innovative. It's a superb firearm.

It's a cartridge as opposed to a gun but I like .327 Federal Magnum. When five or six rounds is the norm, an extra shot is great. It's also nice to get power levels between 9mm and .357 magnum with recoil more on par with .38 special. It's cool to see technology advancing cartridge design for wheel guns.

I also like some of what I've been seeing with modern manufacturing and new copper solids. The Xtreme Penetrators from Lehigh, for instance, offer something new and actually interesting.
 
Well, if we're gonna include ammunition in this discussion, I'm gonna have to toot the Polycase ammunition horn again. The blended copper/polymer bullet is really incredible when you consider it lowers recoil, yet is as damaging to the human body as a hollow point is, yet will never have failures to expand like a hollow point can or be a danger if, inconceivably, it overpenetrates.

From 2 inch barrels to 20 inches, the Polycase is going to preform the same and its going to make magazines weigh a third less than what they do with normal ammunition.

And the possibility that the range ammunition without the flutes might be as effective as the defense ammo with the flutes is in tumbling in the body makes my wallet giddy because I could practice with the same ammunition I use for defense. Oh, and in .38, .380, and 9mm it's very reasonably priced. Maybe not as cheap as steel case, but it is what it is.

If Polycase wants to do something crazy, they should make the ammo in an aluminum case. With the polymer bullet, it would make the loaded cartridges so light they may actually float away!

.327 is innovative? A longer case that holds more powder and has thicker walls isn't innovative, Dick Casull did it with .454 and people before him did it with .44 and .357 Magnum. I love .327, but not innovative.
 
.327 is innovative? A longer case that holds more powder and has thicker walls isn't innovative...
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I think it is when they are blazing new ground, doing it on a small scale at high pressure for smaller arms to offer the new benefits I mentioned previously. Speaking of those smaller arms, I think the LCR is a nifty innovation too. Of course, I'm no expert.
 
No.

Handguns are fairly mature technology. Consider the popularity and age of the 1911. These days, pretty much all innovation is in materials and manufacturing.

Furthermore, innovative pistols tend to be fairly expensive, and risky since the high cost and unproven principals often result in discontinuation.
 
I've been trying to place my finger on what innovative is. At first I wanted to note there is nothing innovative in pistols. But there is to some degree in my lifetime.

Striker fired
10MM
Rotating barrel
The idea of a "bullpup" pistol where the magazine is in front of the chamber

The list goes on awhile. My initial answer was "no I do not buy innovative" and yet I carry a striker fired pistol and have a bit of a crush on the 10MM round.

So at some point I do buy "innovative." I thought about this a lot as I tried to put my finger on what innovative is and why I don't buy more innovative (or have not in the past) or if I am just wrong and actually do buy innovative.

It then occurred to me... most of the time the innovators don't "make it" The best known striker fired pistols were not the first. 10MM in its infancy is best described as a failure. So if "innovative" means first to market with new technology I don't buy it. I let other companies find the flaws and adjust before considering innovative.
 
Yeah, Glock is a great pistol, but I fail to see how it (and any other polymer pistol) should cost more than $400.
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The cost to produce anything has nothing to do with it's value. We pay hundreds of dollars every day for products where the packaging costs the manufacturer more than the product inside. It's not just guns.

I'm not afraid to try new things. Some work, most don't. But if people didn't keep trying new things we'd still be defending ourselves with spears and communicating by carving messages in stone.
 
I don't like it being in .25 ACP, ammo is costly compared to .22 LR and Mag.
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Agree. That's why I will wait for the 22 Mag. or Long Rifle model.
Of course it's just business response, but I did contact Standard Manufacturing, and they said they still plan to put the Volley Fire in production. Just been busy with another product. Thinking maybe their double barreled pump shotgun.
 
I was going to buy a model 40 Glock. I admit I want one. I have no real practical role for it that is not already filled. I was at a gun show with the cash to buy one. I left the show with a Colt Trooper Mk.III .357 mag with 6 inch barrel that is in as close to like new as one that I shoot will ever be.


I still plan to get the Glock some day. It is just that a Colt in that condition at that price was too good of a deal for me to walk away from. I can always get the Glock from somewhere later on down the road.
 
With the exception of my Walther PPS-M2 that I bought a few years ago not long after it first came out, I’m not an “early adapter”. I like to let others work the early production bugs out of the latest & greatest to hit the shelves. I have been buying out of the used gun cases of late so I let the original owners take the depreciation hit.

I’m backing off of getting one of the Gen5 Glocks, my Gen3’s serve me just fine, and I don’t like the idea of laying out up to $700 for a Gen5 19 with the AmeriGlo sights (the Gen5’s with those sights are up to $100 over the base model, which is outrageous). I’ll wait until next year for the original owner to sell or trade theirs, and get it for around $400!
 
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I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that no one has yet mentioned the R51. :eek:

But I guess I will; yes, I tend to buy some new interesting thoughts or designs; Beretta PX4, Ruger SR22, and lately the R51. The first two are okay but not spectacular. The latter has cured me; the Peterson device idea, and the overall look of the gun sucked me in, but I was so disappointed with it that I'm going to wait for future guns to be "proven" before I bite. And as a Beretta fanatic, I think I haven't been really excited over anything recently; I think the PX4 is ugly, even though I bought it, and I won't even bite on the APX; Beretta, please stay away from striker guns! There are plenty of others on the market.

(Well, I guess I did buy a Ruger Mark IV Hunter early on and more recently than the R51; and I'm happy with it...so I'm not entirely cured).
 
I did "adopt new firearm technologies immediately" at least three times. These innovative handguns included a Kriss Vector .45 pistol, a DoubleTap Derringer and a Phillips and Rogers Medusa multi-caliber revolver.

The Kriss and the Double Tap had their list prices drop by more than 30% not long after I bought them.

The Medusa went up in value but parts and service are near impossible to find.

Based on the above, I will not be quite as quick to be the first kid on the block to buy innovative handguns in the future.
 
I pack a Chiappa Rhino for my concealed carry. Upside down revolver. It works great. No muzzle flip.
 

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berettaprofessor said:
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that no one has yet mentioned the R51. :eek:
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R51? I thought we were talking about guns, not paperweights.

The Pederson action is cool and I'd love to have a single stack 9mm that uses it, but just not from Remmie. Remmie's in recovery mode.

EDIT: And you can't just support something that's not well made because it's "innovative." Kel-Tec is a prime example. The PMR-30 is pretty innovative, but it's Kel-Tec, I've never heard much praise for any Kel-Tec handgun other than the P32. I also know that .22 Magnum is not meant to be run in a semi auto out of a detachable box magazine.
 
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The Keltecs are all "well-made." They use quality materials that are appropriate for their intended purpose. Their P11 put Keltec on the map. The PF9 is still one of the smallest, lightest, thinnest 9mm pistols. The P3AT was the gun that Ruger copied for the LCP.
Whether you "know" .22 mag is not meant to be run in a semi auto out of a box magazine is irrelevant. The PMR 30 does it well.
 
R51 hum, yeah I have one of them. Not aot of shooting with it yet, but probably 50 trouble free rounds so far. Another 50 or so fmj "range fodder" plus a few mags of SD hollow point, and it might fit in the SD rotation.
So far, feels good, shoots good, is accurate, and reliable.
 
Whether you "know" .22 mag is not meant to be run in a semi auto out of a box magazine is irrelevant. The PMR 30 does it well.
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Holly cow Bill. Go buy that lotto ticket. We agree again!!!!
My PMR30 has run fine with everything hut Hornady Critical Defence. Lots of fun to shoot, and 30 rounds of any 22 Magnum would be nothing a bad guy would want to encounter.
I also agree that there is nothing wrong with Kel-Tec. I also have a P32 that once it was given a proper cleaning, and lube has worked quite well.
 
There are so many developed, established, quality handguns out there.
Sometimes, like Kimber's K6s, which refines the old hammerless
snubnose, with rounded edges, quality sights, and a tight finish. IMO,
a design which is redone to enhance the features most attractive to that
specific purpose of SD/CC is innovative.
The Kel-Tec company, with it's lightweight 30 round PMR30 was innovative, but the
@ 5 years it took to bring readily available numbers of it to the market caused a
loss of interest.
 
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