But isn’t a concealed handgun over a long arm a concession to comfort and appearance in itself? I hear about never letting comfort or appearance matter but if this were really the case would we be discussing handguns? Certainly we would be discussing far more effective long guns or small AR style “pistols”
Do we need Hi-Capacity in everyday Carry?
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FireForged
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LOL.. I thought I was disagreeing with you but then read a couple of your previous posts and discovered that I do in fact agree with your sentiments.
I was proud of my disagreement but had to delete it to prevent me from looking like an ever bigger jackass than I already am.
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Do we need it?
Do we need to wear helmets while driving our everyday car or truck, or just when riding motorcycles and scooters?
Do we need to carry fire extinguishers in every car or truck we own?
Lots of questions could be asked of everyday choices. Justifications can abound and vary, too.
To answer your question OP ... Me? No.
I started as a young cop at the beginning of the 80's carrying a .357MAG service revolver on-duty, and either that or a Colt Commander off-duty. I eventually carried hi-cap pistols on and off-duty over time. (I also carried .44MAG revolvers off-duty at various times, since they were approved for duty and off-duty use, but they were often popular in the heyday of the revolver.)
I finished my regular career carrying an issued 7+1 compact .45 on-duty (plainclothes assignment), and more often than not carrying a 5-shot snub revolver off-duty. My compact and subcompact 9's, .40's and .45's still saw a lot of range time (free ammo, right?
), but so did my assorted snub revolvers. The snubs saw more carry time, though.19 years of my LE career included serving as a firearms instructor, with all the opportunities for receiving training often afforded by serving in that role. I continued to serve my agency in that role for another 8 years after I retired (reserve status), helping younger instructors and armorers, helping teach classes, etc.
I only own 1 pistol that even uses hi-cap mags, and those are 12rd mags. The rest of my pistols use 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10rd mags. The lower capacity magazines don't keep me awake at night.
I still often carry 5-shot snubs, too, and when some pants pockets won't accommodate a snub, I pocket holster a shorter and slimmer LCP.
Now that I'm fully retired I'm not going to be invoking my former peace officer status and actively looking to intervene in some crime I may observe. Trouble is going to have to actively seek me out and look for me. Until such time may come that I can't shoot my smaller weapons well, I'll continue to favor them over the larger ones. Capacity? Not one of the things that makes me lose sleep.
If I were going to worry about running out of something during some unexpected, dynamic and chaotic incident it would probably be time before it would be ammunition. Another thing that might concern me is the ability to bring training and experience to bear to enable me to make aimed, effective hits in whatever time is allotted.
TANSTAAFL. Ammunition capacity doesn't change that.
Just my thoughts.
silvermane_1
New member
As other's have posted, no ever wish they has less ammo in a shootout. Also to the whole question of "Do we need Hi-Capacity in everyday carry?" feeds into the pro gun-control advocate's narrative.
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The overriding truth, reference being dragged into using your concealed carry handgun? You most likely will have no control, non! Of the location, or who you will be facing, or what weapons they will have.
Going back in time a bit? 5 or 6 years? A very good friend of mine, at that time he was a Police Officer, in a large City. The City I lived in also. At that time I was regularly (all the time!) carried a Glock 19 and a spare G17 magazine.
He was not retired, I was.
A phone call "Can you come and pick me up, the tow bar they are fitting is the wrong one" I had no idea what the problem was, but the solution on my part was easy, go and get him! He was not in the best part of town either.
Lots of small businesses, good prices, and an active stroll! Ladies of the night worked days too!
He was standing on the Street when I got there, we were in Cell phone reach.
My buddy won pistols regularly in the Glock matches, he was, and still is, a great shot. His answer to my question. What are you carrying?
"I was only going to be a couple of hours, and would be in the shop!" Nothing.
How have I changed re carrying? Quite recently, the Glock 43X at 10 plus one, has become my every day carry, plus a spare 10 round magazine, both on the belt. Plus a very bright Surefire flashlight, also on the belt, next to the spare Mag. Factory trigger, best of any Glock I have, Ameriglow night sights, factory fitted, Blue Box. Old people do not go out after 10 PM?
I would normally answer "That's right" But on Saturday night, coming home from Baby Sitting, Girl 9 Boy 7. Son rolled in via Uber, 11-30 PM! Been out since 7 pm. The Munchkins fast asleep since 9-30.
We arrived home at midnight. Disable alarm via remote, backed into the garage, English don't you know, I can reverse! Remote, door down.
Right outside of our two-story townhouse, really bright LED Street light.
One in 5? probably, drivers had been drinking. Not I. Did I need to be armed, there is that question NEED! Yes or no? I did anyway.
Going back in time a bit? 5 or 6 years? A very good friend of mine, at that time he was a Police Officer, in a large City. The City I lived in also. At that time I was regularly (all the time!) carried a Glock 19 and a spare G17 magazine.
He was not retired, I was.
A phone call "Can you come and pick me up, the tow bar they are fitting is the wrong one" I had no idea what the problem was, but the solution on my part was easy, go and get him! He was not in the best part of town either.
Lots of small businesses, good prices, and an active stroll! Ladies of the night worked days too!
He was standing on the Street when I got there, we were in Cell phone reach.
My buddy won pistols regularly in the Glock matches, he was, and still is, a great shot. His answer to my question. What are you carrying?
"I was only going to be a couple of hours, and would be in the shop!" Nothing.
How have I changed re carrying? Quite recently, the Glock 43X at 10 plus one, has become my every day carry, plus a spare 10 round magazine, both on the belt. Plus a very bright Surefire flashlight, also on the belt, next to the spare Mag. Factory trigger, best of any Glock I have, Ameriglow night sights, factory fitted, Blue Box. Old people do not go out after 10 PM?
I would normally answer "That's right" But on Saturday night, coming home from Baby Sitting, Girl 9 Boy 7. Son rolled in via Uber, 11-30 PM! Been out since 7 pm. The Munchkins fast asleep since 9-30.
We arrived home at midnight. Disable alarm via remote, backed into the garage, English don't you know, I can reverse! Remote, door down.
Right outside of our two-story townhouse, really bright LED Street light.
One in 5? probably, drivers had been drinking. Not I. Did I need to be armed, there is that question NEED! Yes or no? I did anyway.
I have a Shield 45 and a Shield 9mm. The Shield 9 is equipped with a 9 round magguts +2 spring system, so I have 9+1. I carry the Shield 9 more often than the 45 just because of the higher capacity. At the range, the Shield 45 goes empty pretty darn quick with the 6 round mags it seems.
ammo.crafter
New member
what's enough?
I prefer the "feel" of a single stack mag to that of a high cap double stack.
If I need more than 8-9 rounds, I'm in big trouble.
I prefer the "feel" of a single stack mag to that of a high cap double stack.
If I need more than 8-9 rounds, I'm in big trouble.
I think the reason why this thread has hit six pages and counting, with no resolution, is that there is no resolution. It comes down to the nebulous psychological matter of "feeling prepared" and clearly that is different for absolutely everyone. If you carry only a one-round handgun, you probably are carrying one more round than you'll ever need. I haven't been in a physical altercation since 7th grade. I haven't been threatened with violence since college, and that guy was so drunk he was being held up by his roommates while he slurred his threats at me. I'm over 40 and live in a suburb and the worst crime I've witnessed was someone toilet papering the wrong house.
One person doesn't carry at all and feels perfectly prepared, and in most instances he's probably right. Someone else carries an LCP and feels fine. Someone else doesn't, but then does when he adds a spare magazine. Someone else carries a full size .45 with two magazines plus a backup revolver in his pocket.
None of this comes down to "need." It comes down to Sig doing some engineering wizardry that fit 4 more rounds into the same space that everyone else fits six. People bought it in droves because it was new, novel, a pretty capable little pistol, and I'm guessing they figured "Hey, why not? Carries extra rounds, that's cool, and I have a handgun buying habit anyways."
Springfield jumped in and did one round better. I imagine that a year from now, after it's shown that these new designs have staying power, we'll see Smith and Ruger and Walther and Beretta and whoever else start jumping in because 10+ round micro compacts will have become the new normal.
Not because anyone *needs* that many in a micro pistol. But because they *buy* them, and therefore everyone else will build them so they can make money too.
That's how I see it anyways. Bottom line: if I didn't already own a compact model for carry, I'd probably buy either a Sig or Springfield because .... why not? The extra rounds aren't hurting anything, it's kinda cool that I have them. But I wouldn't feel any safer having 12 in my magazine than 8.
One person doesn't carry at all and feels perfectly prepared, and in most instances he's probably right. Someone else carries an LCP and feels fine. Someone else doesn't, but then does when he adds a spare magazine. Someone else carries a full size .45 with two magazines plus a backup revolver in his pocket.
None of this comes down to "need." It comes down to Sig doing some engineering wizardry that fit 4 more rounds into the same space that everyone else fits six. People bought it in droves because it was new, novel, a pretty capable little pistol, and I'm guessing they figured "Hey, why not? Carries extra rounds, that's cool, and I have a handgun buying habit anyways."
Springfield jumped in and did one round better. I imagine that a year from now, after it's shown that these new designs have staying power, we'll see Smith and Ruger and Walther and Beretta and whoever else start jumping in because 10+ round micro compacts will have become the new normal.
Not because anyone *needs* that many in a micro pistol. But because they *buy* them, and therefore everyone else will build them so they can make money too.
That's how I see it anyways. Bottom line: if I didn't already own a compact model for carry, I'd probably buy either a Sig or Springfield because .... why not? The extra rounds aren't hurting anything, it's kinda cool that I have them. But I wouldn't feel any safer having 12 in my magazine than 8.
There is no such thing with personal choice and perception.
I think it was pointed out earlier also that trends in Law Enforcement and military tend to drive personal choices. LEAs have overwhelmingly chosen to go with magazine capacities North of 14 rounds with the officer carrying around 50 rounds of ammo. This is quite a jump compared to the old six shooter with a 2-3 speed loaders. When the military dumped the 1911 it was controversial at the time. But most of the country has followed suit picking higher capacity over bigger bullet.
Cosmodragoon
New member
Much like caliber, there is no universally perfect choice. You just have to find the right option for your individual needs and circumstances.
That said, what we really need is for high capacity to remain an option. That's something that is always under attack. For those of us who have contributed to this thread, let's hope we've contributed as much towards keeping the option available wherever we live.
That said, what we really need is for high capacity to remain an option. That's something that is always under attack. For those of us who have contributed to this thread, let's hope we've contributed as much towards keeping the option available wherever we live.
We're still awaiting the 9th to decide upon the Duncan v. Becerra suit challenging the newest hi-cap magazine law. The latest filing, by the state AG, occurred last month, for motion for summary judgment.
The list of filings can be found here:
https://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/
The latest filing (Oct 7, 2019) is linked here:
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019-10-07-Appellants-Reply-Brief.pdf
This may well be a pivotal case, especially considering the language used by the federal judge in southern CA.
This case isn't just important for CA, but for the entirety of the 9th circuit, and it would add yet another decision that might attract the interest of the supreme court due to the growing split among circuits.
Also, as I was reading elsewhere (but as a lay person), due to the language used by the federal judge in this case, a loss for the state might result to the same language next being applied to another challenge of the original hi-cap mag/feeding device law, possibly overturning it. (If that happens, it might be interesting to see the same language similarly applied to challenge the state's micro-stamping law, the assault weapon laws and perhaps even the Roster of approved firearms.)
Things are in flux.
I'm fine with you deciding what's enough rounds for you and me doing it for me, and neither of us telling the other how our foolish, impractical decision will get us killed.
What we should agree on is NOT having the state set an arbitrary limit for us, removing one more personal decision from our lives.
What we should agree on is NOT having the state set an arbitrary limit for us, removing one more personal decision from our lives.
Ignition Override
New member
If we don’t see the threat (very hard when behind us, or hiding/ waiting at home for us to step from the car) until the Threat’s Gun is Already pointed at us, only a suicidal fool reaches for any weapon.
In these cases involving people I Know, having even 40 rds. would not have helped.
In these cases involving people I Know, having even 40 rds. would not have helped.
Ignition Override
New member
zoo: these robbers (with guns aimed) stood about two feet away from the victims who described the events.
The two who had concealed handguns didn't want to risk getting shot, kept their hands very still, handed over their wallets and were not hurt.
Apparently the victims made the right responses.
Many people believe that victims should still reach for a concealed or open carry handgun. We all know that many robbers shoot victims who do so.
The two who had concealed handguns didn't want to risk getting shot, kept their hands very still, handed over their wallets and were not hurt.
Apparently the victims made the right responses.
Many people believe that victims should still reach for a concealed or open carry handgun. We all know that many robbers shoot victims who do so.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Well just like the gun itself, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
When it comes to the magazines. Spares aren't just for the added ammunition, but to also fix a malfunction. We all know the magazine is the Achilles heel to the semi-automatic anything.
I carry at least one spare mag at all times.
When it comes to the magazines. Spares aren't just for the added ammunition, but to also fix a malfunction. We all know the magazine is the Achilles heel to the semi-automatic anything.
I carry at least one spare mag at all times.
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