Do Collies Make Good Protection Dogs??

[wjd]

Hi all. Newbie here. Hope nobody minds my butting in.

Collies are great dogs. Besides, look how many times Lassie pulled Timmy's bacon out of the fire.

Seriously, I'm with some of the others here. Any dog of reasonable intelligence that is well treated will do. Don't overlook the mutt. They can be just as reliable as any other breed. In addition, mutts generally don't suffer from some of the problems associated with overbreeding.

Again, as some of the others have stated, give the dog a good home and he will do his part, its in his nature, whatever his breed or lack thereof.

 

[zot]

collies are insane if their pure , big mean unpredectable biters,
beast dog I've had is german shepard, black lab, rottweiler, best
mix, especcialy if they show the lab part more, big mean killing machine but loving too. this means the dog described is a mutt,
not 3 dogs

 

[zot]

for last post,DUH!!

 

[Zundfolge]

God help whomever decides to break into my home. Our 80lb Border Collie / Golden Retriever mix has a serious protection dog streak and will probably eat anyone who enters unwelcome.

(that's Murphy from off my wife's web page)

Of the dogs listed the Collie may not be the best protection/attack dog, but the are probably the most alert watch dogs of the bunch.

 

[Rail Gun]

I have to reccomend against the german shepard. I used to have a white shepard and hated it. It was a bad dog. It would definatly be good for protection. It would chew up everything and destroy things. It finally bit a little child that was visiting so I took him to the pound that next day and told them she bit a child and was vicious so they would destroy her. Don't even thnk about getting a german shepherd if you will have children around.

We now have a St. Bernard and he is the best dog in the world. He never chews anything, and is the friendliest dog in the world. He is even a very considerate dog. I love him.

Think about what you want the 'protection dog' for. If you want an attack dog then get a german shepherd like junkyard owners do... If you want a house pet then don't. As far as I'm concerned the dog is a good watch dog. He barks real good when someone's coming to the door, or the back door. At night if the dog would let you know someone was near your house or init the dog would give you the time to load, and that's what I think the protection role should be, to buy time to load...

Take care

 

[boris_01]

Rail, The problem that you had with the White German Shepherd Dog was exactly that. He was a White German Shepherd Dog. The WGSD's were originally bred specifically for the color of the coat. Breeding lighter and lighter colored GSD's together until the white coat came about. The color of the coat took presidence before the temperment or working ability of the breed. WGSD's temperments GENERALLY tend to be unstable when you view the WGSD's as a WHOLE. When you look at WORKING GSD's, you very seldom see a WGSD. Please do not judge all GSD's by your one experience with the breed. That would be like judging a race of people by one experience that you had with one person. I advocate that anyone interested in ANY BREED, do some research on the breed before purchasing a dog. Do research not only on the breed type, but also in the field of purpose that you want the dog for. As I stated on my earlier posts on this subject, I am a dog trainer. This is what I do. I train pets, search and rescue, sport, detection and police k9's. I not only have experience with GSD's, Malinois and Dutch Shepherd's. But with various other breeds. As opposed to others posting who are posting their opinions from limited experience with these breeds in this field of training. And as far as junkyard dogs, I believe that you will find more Rotties and Pitbulls than GSD's. GSD's are a very versitile breed. You will find them in search and rescue, Police K9's, theropy dog's and Guide and service dog's. BUT THIS DEPENDS ENTIRELY ON THE TEMPERMENT OF THE DOG. St. Bernard's make good family dogs. But I did know of one that bit a child in the family that owned it. But that was one dog. I did not judge the breed on that one dog. The size of the dog makes it a good deterant dog. But as a protection dog, I have never seen one able to be trained as a real protection dog. (Which this post was originally about.)

 

[coati]

White German Shephards

The smartest and most obediant dog I ever owned was a White German Shepherd. She'd walk over hot coals to please you, and while well tempered around little kids and other dogs, she'd not tolerate vermin, noises she didn't understand, and raised angry voices from the neighbors.

However, she was put to sleep at the age of 18 months due to uncontrollable cluster seizures that started at age 1. As boris_01 expertly described, these dogs' color was what mattered to breeders, not their health.

We have mighty mutts now. Spare yourself having to put a young dog down. You don't want the experience.

By the way, in our many attempts to resolve this dog's seizures, we went to a dog neurologist. Guess what the predominant color of animal in the waiting rooms was? White.

Anyway, in answer to the breed question, I'd go with a large-chested shepherd mix with big hips. Or, any dog will do for protection. Most will naturally protect the Alpha dog (you).

 

[qkrthnu]

Comparing dogs is kind of difficult.

Borris is absolutely correct in terms of a highly trained protection dog. Go with what's proven (shepards, malnois etc)

Raising/Training/Handling a highly trained protection dog is a lifestyle. And chances are it will take years to get good at it.

The fact is most dog owners aren't going to be putting that kind of time & energy into their dogs.

And IMHO the same dogs that excel when it comes to highly trained protection work aren't necessarily the best when un-trained. ie. I wouldn't put an untrained Shepard over an untrained Pit Bull.

American Pit Bull Terriers are pretty well known for being naturally protective of family, especially children. And a well bred Pit Bull will be alot more game than other breeds from the get go.

The idea that Pit Bulls are fearless when it comes to hunting wild boar, but releuctant to approach a human "Threat" I don't buy either. I don't believe that dogs think that way. If they sense something to be a threat to their family, I don't think it matters what form it comes in.

That being said I think there are many other breeds that are also better suited to "Un-trained Protection", American Bulldogs, Rotts, Great Danes, and many many more.

Check here for a nice list of breeds you might not be familiar with that would most likely be good candidates

http://www.moloss.com/

L8r,

QKRTHNU

 

[ProStreetChevelle]

help?

Boris, you've got great info, thanks for sharing it!

May I ask you and the forum for some guidance? What breeds do you recommend for guard-type dogs? My wife and I are looking for a dog that will be good for staying in the house with us at night, be either an indoor or outdoor dog during the day, be good at listening for "bumps" in the night and bark when they hear it, or listening for intruders around our perimeter. Also, short hair and/or dogs that don't shed much would be nice. We're thinking a mid-sized dog, and one that would adapt to a new baby in the house should one come along.

The dog would get training as well, although I suspect I have a lot to learn there as well.
Thanks for any pointers or URLs you might provide!

 

[boris_01]

ProStreet, I suggest to most everyone to get a dog for deterant purposes only. Truth is most people never really need a actual "Protection" trained dog. A protection trained dog is a big responsibility and liability. Just look at the dog mauling case that was recently at trial where the presa canarios ( I believe) mauled the young lady to death. The owners were found guilty. And rightly so. For deterant purposes, many breeds. Pitt bull, German Shepherd, Malinois, Rottwieller, etc. As a alarm dog, small dogs like Jack russells, Chihuahuas, Shelties make great alarm dogs. Primarilly because their whole world is inside the house. And they develop such strong bonds because of it. When they feel their world is about to be invaded upon they sound off. German Shepherds are great all around dogs. (My personal favorite.) Great alarm dog, companion, highly trainable, visably authoritative. Just one draw back per your situation......They shed profusely. So it would take an effort with the grooming. You can find them on the small side. And you can pick one with the temperment that suits you. Very versitile breed. But not all German Shepherds are great. Or all breeds for that matter. I suggest getting a young adult dog so that you can test the temperment and know what you are getting. You never know how a puppy will turn out. And finally, don't believe the tale that a dog will naturally protect you. No breed will naturally protect. What most people perceive as protectiveness is more involved than I want to go into now to explain why they possibly react the way they do. So did I help or confuse?

 

[ProStreetChevelle]

yes, you did help!

Thanks Boris for the reply. I agree with you about the liability in some dogs and their training and/or temperment. I don't want a dog that has a higher risk of doing something damaging, but I also realize that a lot of that risk can be minimized by proper training and breeding and care.

What we're interested in is a family dog that will act as an alarm, one that's big enough to be a deterrent but also not so big that it's a liability or one that my wife couldn't control or hold back on a leash.

German Shepards keep coming up but I've never been fond of them due to their long hair, and they are a little bigger than what I would prefer. I would like something around 25-30 pounds, short hair, good with kids, but is an alert-type dog. Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[TaxPhd]

Boris,

Good stuff. Thanks!

For the most part, I agree with your comments:

"And finally, don't believe the tale that a dog will naturally protect you. No breed will naturally protect."

How familiar are you with the Fila Brasilero? They seem to have a good reputation for "natural protection."

 

[Seeker]

We have a Dobie/German Shepard mix that is a great dog. We got him at the humane society almost five years ago when our son was 3. He has always been gentle and friendly with chldren and guests. He also sounds and looks ferocious when need be. I tend to prefer mixed breeds (especially Dobie/German Shepard mix) as opposed to pure breeds, I think in general it makes for a better rounded and more stable dog - IMO.

 

[jmlv]

I like my dogs big. the bigger the better

in some cases. current couch potato is a smallish(for the breed) Saint Bernard. she definately does get most folks attention. And she is protective of the home.
Boris,
I have been doing research on the giant breeds for a number of years. Two of the most protective and guard like are of the mastriff breed. These dogs are downright dangerous to non family members And this is with no training but basic obedience
These dogs are the Filia Brassero of brazil and the Neopolitian
Mastiff from italy. These animals while from different backgrounds actually have similar traits. and are of a similar size (150 - over 200LB) Have you worked with either of these breed? I am personally intrested in the Neo and want one in the future. I realize that will require special needs to make sure the dog has limited acess to strangers when I am not around including family not living with me. (These dogs are extremely dangerous to strangers trepassing they can and do bite. - with no protectionguard training whatso ever) they are ausome companians and home guards through. like anything else great power required great responsibility.

 

[boris_01]

Large breeds such as the varied Mastiff breeds are intimidating in appearance. We have been involved with the training of several of these breeds. But not with great success. Honestly, many people missread what they call protectiveness. People often believe that a dog who barks, growls, snaps at or bites is protective or is a good candidate for a protection dog. But not necessarrily so. Self preservation is the primary instinct in the animal kingdom. Or the human kingdom for that matter. To expect an dog to override that instinct and to put himself in the way of a threat is expecting a lot. Humans do not do it NATURALLY. Humans have the ability to reason and assess a situation before reaction, allowing us to overide the self presevation instinct. Dogs do not. What most people call protectiveness is a dog who perceives a threat and reacts in a way of defense. The level of confidence determines the level of threat that the dog sees in a situation. It could be something as simple as what a PERSON may sees as nonthreatening, like standing motionless, staring at the dog. ( a threatening posture in the animal world) Or a child shyly and slowly reaching out to touch the dog. Again slow motions sometimes seem as a threat or challenge to a dog. If the confidence level is low anything out of context may trigger a defensive reation. Such as the dog in a new environment with different surroundings. Someone new comes over to visit, who the dog sees as a possible threat because they do not know them. ETC. Protectiveness implies that the dog can distinguish a threat and without concern for it's own safety react to protect another. Not saying that it does not happen, but not often. More often it is simply missinterpreted defensiveness. But defensiveness is not a bad thing. In training a actual protection dog you use the dogs defense drive and his prey drive to stimulate him to bite. Conditioning him through situational training to gain control and to teach him correct reation to the situation. In training you are able to direct or channel prey or defense drives to build confidence and make a more balanced dog. In our experience a lot of the Mastiff breeds simply do not have the desired prey drive to carry them through a threatening situation and to bulid their confidence. But they do have defense drive. And defense drive coupled with lack of confidence creates a "sharp dog". (Meaning quick to bite.) Remember the level of confidence determines the level of threat the dog perceives. Well time to go to work. Maybe more later.

 

[ATeaM]

"I would like something around 25-30 pounds, short hair, good with kids, but is an alert-type dog. Thanks for any suggestions!"

Three words, English...Staffordshire...terrier. Awesome dog.

For those of you who like the big dogs, check this site out - www.moloss.com

 

[ATeaM]

Staffs are in the 30-40 lb range, kind of like an English predecessor to the pitbull, smaller, blockier and much more managable. Uncommon in this country but incredible dogs. I'd own one if there weren't already so many adoptable pitbulls who need a good home. If your not afraid of the name, pits make a great pet as well albeit almost twice the size of an English Staff.

 

[jmlv]

Neo's

Boris,
I understand what you are saying. But I don't beleave it applies to these animals at least not totally. Neo's are desended from the origional roman war dogs and susposedly the bloodlines have been kept pure all these years in italy. They have been (and still are) used as estate guards. They are large, fearless, and protective. Now weither they are protective so much of their owner(I personally beleave so but who am I) or just his property (their home) I can't say for sure. They apprently are one family dogs and highly distrustful of strangers.
In no way are they suitable for police work. far too powerful and dangerours for street use. I don't know personally how much you know about this breed in particular (as opposed to the mastiff breeds in general) but feel you may be surprised if you researched them in depth. (and the Filia as well) I would like to hear your comments after some indepth research on these dogs if you have the time.

 

[boris_01]

JMLV. Yes I have experience with Neopolitian Mastiffs. You said that you have been doing research on the breed? I assume by that , that you do not personally have experience with the breed? Just been researching them? Don't believe the hype. You will always hear great things about a breed from proponents of the breed. They are obviously not my breed choice but I work many different breeds. I speak from experience. If a dog works, great, if it does'nt, I chalk it up to experience. I'm not a dog racist.(for the lack of a better term) If the dog works, We'll work it. And there are exceptions to all breeds.

 

[mjn]

GSDs

My German Shepherd is smart but totally non-aggressive- I keep telling him it's embarassing when he lets the neighbor's Chihuahua beat him up, but he does it anyway!

My question is, is there anything that can be done to reduce the amount of shedding they do? My wife is getting pretty fed up with the hair all over the house. I think it's partly because of the change of seasons, but it's getting out of hand. I do feed him high quality food. Any other suggestions?

TIA.