Disturbing police/ SWAT picture
- Thread starter shamus005
- Start date
marlboroman84
New member
I never said that. I said if they WERE dealing around the kid they deserved what they got.
It's not MY war on drugs. I just don't advocate children being exposed to it.
Some people deserve the hard toe of a government boot. Who is not for me to decide though. Luckily for some.
I agree with ya there.
Why the cop is in the room bothers me almost as much as why the picture was taken. BTW, I wouldn't expect the cop to sit his weapon on the coffee table.
I never called you a cop hater or even implied it. I don't care what my neighbors do as long as they shut up and let me sleep, until it directly affects me they can do what they want. When someone publishes a picture that obviously criticizes cops then I have the right to make conjecture about the photo if I wish, as do we all.
I hate hypocrisy as well, almost as much as I hate our criminal justice system.
It's because most American gun owners are either to lax to do anything or they are to crazy and "tacti-cool" to be taken seriously by lawmakers. It's the middle ground where the fight really is, because those in the middle are fighting the ignorance of both sides.
I again agree with you. I'm sure most of that wasn't aimed at me, if it was pm me and we can talk. I understand where you are coming from, the fact is everyone likes to toss their view out there. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's not, but everyone loves to get their opinion heard the general problem is the idiots scream the loudest.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
None of it was.
Rich
Laws prohibit smoking around childrenhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-11-27-smoking-bans_x.htm
"All your children are belong to us," quoth the Almighty State.
How long until they prohibit teaching your own kids how to shoot, by calling it "a form of child abuse?"
Well if there were drugs in the house of a sizable amount then the officer in the photo obviously had more concern for the child's welfare than his parents did.
If you're dealing around your kids you need to have your door kicked in and some sense knocked into ya.
Thanks = big +1 on this statement. I've seen the direct results of children living with meth users - hair samples taken from these children by DHS for analysis - indicated positive for meth and marijuana in two cases i was involved with. In both cases the children were removed from this environment.
Some people deserve the hard toe of a government boot. Who is not for me to decide though. Luckily for some.
Another statement I'm in full agreement with.
The above picture offends you? - go into some of ratholes that these tweakers live in with these children and take a hard look around. These kids don't stand a chance.
Some of the hyperbole around here in the name of "justice" should be replaced with common sense.
12-34hom.
If you're dealing around your kids you need to have your door kicked in and some sense knocked into ya.
Thanks = big +1 on this statement. I've seen the direct results of children living with meth users - hair samples taken from these children by DHS for analysis - indicated positive for meth and marijuana in two cases i was involved with. In both cases the children were removed from this environment.
Some people deserve the hard toe of a government boot. Who is not for me to decide though. Luckily for some.
Another statement I'm in full agreement with.
The above picture offends you? - go into some of ratholes that these tweakers live in with these children and take a hard look around. These kids don't stand a chance.
Some of the hyperbole around here in the name of "justice" should be replaced with common sense.
12-34hom.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
12-34Hom-
Can't disagree with your sentiments; only your policy.
There is virtually no infringement of God Granted Rights that has ever been perpetrated without the tacit consent or outright support of the people.
And so it is here. We no longer talk of Ideals like Freedom, Liberty and Self Reliance. Rather, we point to vignettes:
"Doesn't that crack user scare you"
"Don't you think that child is better off in the arms of a armed government agent than at the feet of a meth merchant?"
"Don't you want us to catch this terrorist?"
"Isn't it time these school shootings stop?"
"Isn't a simple Registration List or National ID a small price to pay for so much more Safety?"
"Isn't it time our children stop being exposed to the tools of death?"
When the chorus answers "Yes", you have the loss of freedom. Yet the terror and death continues, inevitably; it simply takes a different form, with easier targets. Nobody is more safe.
Choose your future. But do it without hypocrisy. If you feel that more laws and more raids can make a difference in the War on Drugs, it can certainly make a difference in the War on Firearms Violence. And, in the latter War, make no mistake about it: we are each "The Enemy", and we deserve to be targeted, monitored and controlled.
Rich
Can't disagree with your sentiments; only your policy.
There is virtually no infringement of God Granted Rights that has ever been perpetrated without the tacit consent or outright support of the people.
And so it is here. We no longer talk of Ideals like Freedom, Liberty and Self Reliance. Rather, we point to vignettes:
"Doesn't that crack user scare you"
"Don't you think that child is better off in the arms of a armed government agent than at the feet of a meth merchant?"
"Don't you want us to catch this terrorist?"
"Isn't it time these school shootings stop?"
"Isn't a simple Registration List or National ID a small price to pay for so much more Safety?"
"Isn't it time our children stop being exposed to the tools of death?"
When the chorus answers "Yes", you have the loss of freedom. Yet the terror and death continues, inevitably; it simply takes a different form, with easier targets. Nobody is more safe.
Choose your future. But do it without hypocrisy. If you feel that more laws and more raids can make a difference in the War on Drugs, it can certainly make a difference in the War on Firearms Violence. And, in the latter War, make no mistake about it: we are each "The Enemy", and we deserve to be targeted, monitored and controlled.
Rich
Double Naught Spy
New member
Wow, all this debate over the context of a picture for which there is no verified source or confirmation.
Certainly no reporter has ever sensationalized an event to make it seem more significant so as to dupe folks into inappropriate responses or to promote personal agendas against law enforcement or the government.
Certainly no reporter has ever sensationalized an event to make it seem more significant so as to dupe folks into inappropriate responses or to promote personal agendas against law enforcement or the government.
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose?
There is virtually no infringement of God Granted Rights that has ever been perpetrated without the tacit consent or outright support of the people.
There it is.
We no longer talk of Ideals like Freedom, Liberty and Self Reliance.
Instead of supporting electing politicians [see your above quote] - we are in dire need of some Statesmen or women to step forward with a common vision that includes "we the people" as their basic motivation.
The currant crop of politicos is a dismal representation of what this country used to stand for and was admired throughout the world.
Yet, thousands of folk flock to our borders hoping to become one of its citizens. Radical Islam is bent on our destuction exactly because of the freedoms and rights we share and hold so dear.
I have an everlasting faith in this country and what it stands for, the blood of thousands of women and men who sacrificed everthing, so i can enjoy my liberty can never be altered up or in vain.
My path has never been clearer to me.
12-34hom.
There is virtually no infringement of God Granted Rights that has ever been perpetrated without the tacit consent or outright support of the people.
There it is.
We no longer talk of Ideals like Freedom, Liberty and Self Reliance.
Instead of supporting electing politicians [see your above quote] - we are in dire need of some Statesmen or women to step forward with a common vision that includes "we the people" as their basic motivation.
The currant crop of politicos is a dismal representation of what this country used to stand for and was admired throughout the world.
Yet, thousands of folk flock to our borders hoping to become one of its citizens. Radical Islam is bent on our destuction exactly because of the freedoms and rights we share and hold so dear.
I have an everlasting faith in this country and what it stands for, the blood of thousands of women and men who sacrificed everthing, so i can enjoy my liberty can never be altered up or in vain.
My path has never been clearer to me.
12-34hom.
JuanCarlos
New member
Seriously, that's the first thing I thought when 12-34hom's post. I've been to some whacked-out tweaker ratholes. That looks more like middle to lower-middle class suburbia, right there...or at least a lower-middle class apartment.
This I do not agree with. There is no parallel between smoking around your children and letting them shoot. Smoking in a confined area with another person causes them physical harm; this is okay if we're talking about adults who consent to this harm, but in general I don't think children are mature enough to make such decisions to consent nor are they likely to have the power to not consent when we're talking about their parents.. Thus by smoking in a confined are with a child you are essentially abusing them.
Letting a child shoot, on the other hand, is highly unlikely to cause any harm whatsoever (assuming you do so safely), and has beneficial effects. Second-hand smoke has no beneficial effects, and it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to expose somebody to it safely.
Of course, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the topic at hand...
Rich Lucibella
Staff
DoubleNaught-
The image is verified. See my references on page 1.
JuanCarlos-
Think second hand smoke is not in the same Public Health Hazard arena as firearms? Think again. The American Medical Association is the organization that brought us "proof" of the first; they are equally as adamant about the second. It just hasn't made Prime Time yet. In short, cigarettes and firearms are every bit equal in danger according to those who would make your life safer by controlling your personal behavior. You simply happen to agree with one crusade but not the other. That's why Freedom keeps losing; everyone has a pet agenda and sooner or later .gov addresses them ALL.
Charlie-
I really don't understand your post. Are you claiming that, as long as laws are passed, it's our duty to respect and rally 'round them even if we find them morally repugnant?
Rich
The image is verified. See my references on page 1.
JuanCarlos-
Think second hand smoke is not in the same Public Health Hazard arena as firearms? Think again. The American Medical Association is the organization that brought us "proof" of the first; they are equally as adamant about the second. It just hasn't made Prime Time yet. In short, cigarettes and firearms are every bit equal in danger according to those who would make your life safer by controlling your personal behavior. You simply happen to agree with one crusade but not the other. That's why Freedom keeps losing; everyone has a pet agenda and sooner or later .gov addresses them ALL.
Charlie-
I really don't understand your post. Are you claiming that, as long as laws are passed, it's our duty to respect and rally 'round them even if we find them morally repugnant?
Rich
We all see thru different eyes.
It is obvious to me that most if not all posts here can see that we have a serious problem in this country concerning out freedoms. All can see things changing and not necessarily for the better.
I have not the talent to even try at a answer just to add this. All of us should be grateful to have been so fortunate to have lived in this country when we have. No other people , I don't think, have ever had the freedoms along with the wonders of modern technology's to use and enjoy at our disposal ever in the history of man kind. I know some changes can or would be a good thing but again just be so thankfully to have lived when we have.
Just a thought, cause the times they are a changing.
It is obvious to me that most if not all posts here can see that we have a serious problem in this country concerning out freedoms. All can see things changing and not necessarily for the better.
I have not the talent to even try at a answer just to add this. All of us should be grateful to have been so fortunate to have lived in this country when we have. No other people , I don't think, have ever had the freedoms along with the wonders of modern technology's to use and enjoy at our disposal ever in the history of man kind. I know some changes can or would be a good thing but again just be so thankfully to have lived when we have.
Just a thought, cause the times they are a changing.
mvpel, any sort of smoke-filled environment for children could reasonably be considered child abuse. It's only because smoking was once, and is still to some, fashionable that people view it as a lifestyle choice rather than a significant health hazard.
End the drug war and you (that's the general "you"; I don't know if you smoke) can have all the nicotine gum and nicotine patches you want. You'll suffer fewer health-related side effects, you won't annoy non-smokers, and your clothes and home and car won't smell of smoke.
How is target shooting remotely comparable, as long as there's adequate ventilation and hearing protection? If the government ended the War on Silencers, we'd all need less hearing protection. And without so much regulation of guns in general, range owners would have more energy to maintain a safe shooting environment rather than complying with myriad nonsense bookkeeping regulations.
End the drug war and you (that's the general "you"; I don't know if you smoke) can have all the nicotine gum and nicotine patches you want. You'll suffer fewer health-related side effects, you won't annoy non-smokers, and your clothes and home and car won't smell of smoke.
How is target shooting remotely comparable, as long as there's adequate ventilation and hearing protection? If the government ended the War on Silencers, we'd all need less hearing protection. And without so much regulation of guns in general, range owners would have more energy to maintain a safe shooting environment rather than complying with myriad nonsense bookkeeping regulations.
There was a time when a warrant could not be served before the sun rose, nor after it had set... Something about castles and thieves in the night.
When did it become reasonable to assume the people breaking down your door, yelling and screaming unintelligbly, and waking you from a dead sleep had to be the police?
There was a long term study, done in Europe by the UN's WHO, that refutes everything about ETS that the American studies claim to find. This study was a real, double blind study, and not the "meta" studies that we have had here. Funny that the Americans won't recognize it... Kinda like the anti's and their perennial rhetoric.
There is nothing inherently safe about being Free. It carries many risks. Safety requires some loss of freedom, yet even then, there is no guarantee that you will remain safe.
When did it become reasonable to assume the people breaking down your door, yelling and screaming unintelligbly, and waking you from a dead sleep had to be the police?
There was a long term study, done in Europe by the UN's WHO, that refutes everything about ETS that the American studies claim to find. This study was a real, double blind study, and not the "meta" studies that we have had here. Funny that the Americans won't recognize it... Kinda like the anti's and their perennial rhetoric.
There is nothing inherently safe about being Free. It carries many risks. Safety requires some loss of freedom, yet even then, there is no guarantee that you will remain safe.
The photo reminds me of the cover art on John Ross' Unintended Consequences (and if you have not read it, you should!).
I'm agreeing with every point Mr. Lucibella has made. I especially appreciate the comment regarding being labeled a cop hater/basher just for questioning these things.
It's ironic that so-called conservatives claim to be "small government," yet many (most) of them can't get enough government when it comes to getting rid of something they personally don't like (like illicit drug use). That's the real similarity between the "liberals" (pseudo-liberal socialist-statists) and the "conservatives." They want to use government like a sledgehammer when it suits their desires.
I think the world needs more Rich Lucibellas and more Claire Wolfes and a lot let less people who vote straight part tickets without a good reason. Our collective loss of the ability (or perhaps choice) to think critically is probably a huge factor here.
I just wish more people would just stop and really think about what the dignity of the individual, personal liberty, and freedom (and of course the commensurate personal responsibility) are really all about. The massive failures of so many to live responsibly does not justify infringing on the genuine, inherent rights of even a single individual, much less all of us.
I'm agreeing with every point Mr. Lucibella has made. I especially appreciate the comment regarding being labeled a cop hater/basher just for questioning these things.
It's ironic that so-called conservatives claim to be "small government," yet many (most) of them can't get enough government when it comes to getting rid of something they personally don't like (like illicit drug use). That's the real similarity between the "liberals" (pseudo-liberal socialist-statists) and the "conservatives." They want to use government like a sledgehammer when it suits their desires.
I think the world needs more Rich Lucibellas and more Claire Wolfes and a lot let less people who vote straight part tickets without a good reason. Our collective loss of the ability (or perhaps choice) to think critically is probably a huge factor here.
I just wish more people would just stop and really think about what the dignity of the individual, personal liberty, and freedom (and of course the commensurate personal responsibility) are really all about. The massive failures of so many to live responsibly does not justify infringing on the genuine, inherent rights of even a single individual, much less all of us.
This picture should not surprise anyone at all. Looks like the cop is enjoying watching a young boy using the restroom, kinda like a pedophile. Citizens and citizens who wear badges that approve of these types of enforcement ARE THE PROBLEM. You cannot state that you love this country, and all the men/women who died so we can be free, then state you approve of these tactics. Sorry, but what we see in this photo is not freedom, not even close to it.
Police are NOT military, but we have Police that view themselves as military. The way they act, the tactics they use, they way that some (IMO a budding majority) police officer's think that they are some sort of soldier going to war. It is disturbing to see photos like this. I loathe anyone, anyone who advocates these actions. The war on drugs needs to be stopped. The people who approve of incidents like this need to be stopped, off the streets, and NEVER be allowed to wear a badge. IMO, police officers who "get off" on this are worse than the criminals.
It will come to a head, and I believe it will happen soon. And when it does, it will be ugly. The Atlanta incident in and of itself should be a light bulb for all of us, makes you wonder why its "yesterday's news, never heard of again".
Anyone, with a functioning brain, has a duty not to obey an unjust, morally wrong law. As a free citizen, it is your duty to take a stand.
Jeez, a swat ninja, watching a small boy go potty like chester the molester.
Police are NOT military, but we have Police that view themselves as military. The way they act, the tactics they use, they way that some (IMO a budding majority) police officer's think that they are some sort of soldier going to war. It is disturbing to see photos like this. I loathe anyone, anyone who advocates these actions. The war on drugs needs to be stopped. The people who approve of incidents like this need to be stopped, off the streets, and NEVER be allowed to wear a badge. IMO, police officers who "get off" on this are worse than the criminals.
It will come to a head, and I believe it will happen soon. And when it does, it will be ugly. The Atlanta incident in and of itself should be a light bulb for all of us, makes you wonder why its "yesterday's news, never heard of again".
Anyone, with a functioning brain, has a duty not to obey an unjust, morally wrong law. As a free citizen, it is your duty to take a stand.
Jeez, a swat ninja, watching a small boy go potty like chester the molester.
JuanCarlos
New member
That might be a little overboard...though from the picture he does look pretty intent on watching the poor little guy. I don't think I even watched Iraqis that intently when they hit the john.
You know, more and more I find myself actually blaming the officers for the crap that happens, too. It's mostly a recent thing, and perhaps it's in response to some of the posts I've seen by LEOs/ex-LEOs around here, but it seems like my attitude is changing.
For the most part, yeah I still think they're (SWAT members specifically in relation to this thread) just doing their jobs...I put most of the blame on the policymakers that put them there in the first place.
Then again, that only goes so far. I mean, pretty much everybody knows what being a SWAT member means nowadays...possibly seeing real action once in a blue moon, but otherwise kicking down the doors of petty drug offenders and hoping you don't have to kill anybody in the process. At some point somebody has to decide they're okay with this line of work. I mean, the guy waterboarding some sap in eastern Europe right now is just following the directions of policymakers, too...it doesn't mean I suddenly think he's a swell guy.
Granted, pacifists (or even just those who oppose our current military policies) could probably say the same about my involvement in Iraq. Then again, a military in general is pretty much a necessity for the self-defense of the nation; Every two-bit city and podunk town doesn't necessarily need a SWAT team.
Vermont Carry
Moderator
Quadruple amen
Government is invading american's homes so often it is effectively routine. You allowed government to enjoy the power from the now "routine traffic stop," you allowed it to wage an endless war on us (which government lies and calls a "war on drugs"), so this is just a continuation. I don't see americans anywhere deciding to roll back government's unconstitutional powers.