Dennis Farina Arrested w/Gun in Luggage
- Thread starter ammoeater
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The Tourist
Moderator
Tim, you're missing the point.
I meant "assigned to jobs," not having the freedom to elect your course in life.
Many people believe that patients should have their lives "directed." For example, look at the hoopla surrounding the Virginia Tech shooting.
To many Americans the idea of being a mental patient means that you are defective and substandard. You are "nuts."
My beef is that a TFL menber should know all of the tricks used by a faction of the government that seeks to limit choices--even under the Bill of Rights. We should be cognizant of the old "divide and conquer" method of debate.
Frankly, if you want effective letters written to your local newspaper editor you should find a bipolar gun owner in your neighborhood and have him do your writing.
I'm a gun owner, and I am bipolar. I'm just not going to be diminished by my own kind, even in a debate.
I meant "assigned to jobs," not having the freedom to elect your course in life.
Many people believe that patients should have their lives "directed." For example, look at the hoopla surrounding the Virginia Tech shooting.
To many Americans the idea of being a mental patient means that you are defective and substandard. You are "nuts."
My beef is that a TFL menber should know all of the tricks used by a faction of the government that seeks to limit choices--even under the Bill of Rights. We should be cognizant of the old "divide and conquer" method of debate.
Frankly, if you want effective letters written to your local newspaper editor you should find a bipolar gun owner in your neighborhood and have him do your writing.
I'm a gun owner, and I am bipolar. I'm just not going to be diminished by my own kind, even in a debate.
fat old gun nut
New member
gun and airplanes
I fully agree with one of our members.
"Stupid should hurt"
I fully agree with one of our members.
"Stupid should hurt"
The Tourist
Moderator
TimRB said:
Yes, I am. They are more capable of thinking at several different planes and grasping small nuances in speech and implications in address.
But let's get back to the debate. I'll bet none of you know Mr. Farina. As such, none of you know the circumstances of his travel, his mindset, his arrest or the disposition of his case. At this point, all of you have a better chance at guessing if he is wearing boxers or briefs.
Lots of times in a debate there's a certain smugness that arises when none should exist. Frankly, he could buy and sell any one of us with the millions he has made in movies, TV and books.
As to my conversation with Tim, it was a ploy of "turnabout." When are making assumptions about others, it's all fun. When the tables turn, suddenly it's an attack.
So, at the end of the day, I guess I agree with Fat Old Gun Nut. Stupid should hurt. And the more time I spend around normals the more I find it doesn't matter to them, it doesn't matter at all.
Let's give Mr. Farina a break until all of the facts come out.
As long as you take your meds, you are probably fine. The problem is, too many mental folks feel that they can stop taking their meds, and then they relapse. There are reasons mentally ill people are excluded from lawful firearms possession. I have dealt with too many mental patients to say they should be armed. Sorry they have medical conditions that make them unsafe, but thats the roll of the dice......
The Tourist
Moderator
tc556guy said:
That's not your call. You simply have an opinion.
You tag-line under your signature leaads me to believe you are a soldier. (Thank you for your service.) I respect the things you may have seen, but let's play "turnabout."
As a 'boomer, my generation saw lots of boys come back not only with shattered limbs, but unstable minds. The problem is that there are 78 million of us, a large voting bloc.
Let's say that some charismatic Presidential candidate, a liberal gun-grabber, convinced the country that returning vets were too unstable to be around firearms. And with little or no scientific information, all of the vets were stripped of their enumerated rights.
You'd be madder than a wet hen.
And so it is here. Patients are less dangerous than drunken wife-beaters. If you want to stem the tide of real violence, aggressively pursue cases of domestic violence, not us.
How does this relate to the thread?
Briefly, we're making the same snap judgements about Farina's behavior. Some might think he's asking for special privileges, some just like to see the mighty fall. Some might not like his acting. Some might not like LEOs. He fits all of those categories.
But just as in the case of a rank-and-file citizen expounding theories on medicine, we are guessing what transpired in the Farina case. For all we know he's back on the payroll as a Fed, and got caught by routine security measures.
Overall, this is the thing that bothers me. It's the unschooled making broad statements about things they know little about.
The Tourist
Moderator
TimRB said:
We're doing just that. A large portion of the forum has Farina tried and convicted already. We don't even know half of the back-story. I'm simply opining a situation of a rush to judgement.
Do you know why this incident happened in its entirity?
HarrySchell
New member
I don't think you're sincere at all. In fact, that kind of thinking is what truly holds us back.
For example, many whine and gripe about politically correct implications, and how "entitlements" damage this country. That is, until government action limits something they love to do, or impugns their positions.
For example, when a college picks candidates by a quota system, people squeak about the "unfair advantage" this group holds. Then the next day their favorite automobile company starts limiting designs due to CAFE standards, or EPA rulings or crash tests. Then they can't get that new pick-up truck they want. Of course, now the government is "draconian."
Supposedly, it's not an "unfair advantage" is the government gives them what they want.
Right now the gun rights of many Americans might hinge on just how we as a society deal with people who seek aid for mental problems. And we don't need some smart aleck in a hobbyist forum, who probably bases everything he knows on Readers Digest articles, to smear a large section of this country as "nuts."
Here's the way this shakes out. I am bipolar, but I don't consider myself 'suffering' from that condition. I have the same IQ that Einstein had. I have better motor skills. Sharper eyesight. I can out-think you at chess or cards. I never studied for college tests, I didn't have to, I had near total recall. And I'm average in my family. My brother's mental acuity goes off of the graph--there isn't a standard to measure him.
So before you insult us as "nuts," consider this. Be greatful this is a republic and not an oligarchy. We'd have you "normals" doing oil changes and cleaning toilets.
Tourist,
No, I wasn't sincere. I used the term "nuts" with regard to the expectation of getting a gun through an airport security check point, which I consider to be an exceptionally unlikely event. Because it is so unlikely to work, I question someone's grasp on reality if they think they can do it successfully. One way to describe people so functionally out of touch is the "nuts" label.
I don't think people who are bipolar, fighting depression, etc. are necessarily out of touch with reality or dysfunctional to the point they should be disarmed. The new tactic of labeling people crazy or "nuts" so their guns can be confiscated is ripe for potential abuse IMO...for me it echoes the incarceration of Soviet dissidents in insane asylums.
It does appear to me we can agree on the fact that Farina had a weapon in his bag and got caught. One can guess why, but nobody knows for sure and I doubt anyone here thinks they do. We all have opinions about it, and how nice it is we all think differently.
As to you taking offense to my use of the word, that is up to you and perhaps your thinking you understand what is on my mind, which you cannot do with any certainty.
I gave up mind-reading when I got divorced, after realizing I had lived with a woman for 29 years and really didn't know at the end what was real and what wasn't.
Sorry you're offended, but I won't retract my statement based on the foregoing.
I have no problem with people who are successfully coping with their challenges, obeying the laws and living constructive lives. If that is what you are doing, I am proud to make your acquaintenance.
There are other people, depressed, bipolar, whatever, who won't take their meds or otherwise do what they have to do to make the best of their situation...and expect others to pick up after them or tolerate otherwise unacceptable behaviors.
Case in point: very smart employee with a cocaine habit. Really good when not under the influence, but would disappear on benders. Finally got him into a program but he had used up his chances. He would not stay with the program, and refused a urine test after a disappearance. I fired him.
Different times, places and people, similar problems. Some finished the program and stayed clean. Everybody won. Some did not, they had to leave.
Take care.
For example, many whine and gripe about politically correct implications, and how "entitlements" damage this country. That is, until government action limits something they love to do, or impugns their positions.
For example, when a college picks candidates by a quota system, people squeak about the "unfair advantage" this group holds. Then the next day their favorite automobile company starts limiting designs due to CAFE standards, or EPA rulings or crash tests. Then they can't get that new pick-up truck they want. Of course, now the government is "draconian."
Supposedly, it's not an "unfair advantage" is the government gives them what they want.
Right now the gun rights of many Americans might hinge on just how we as a society deal with people who seek aid for mental problems. And we don't need some smart aleck in a hobbyist forum, who probably bases everything he knows on Readers Digest articles, to smear a large section of this country as "nuts."
Here's the way this shakes out. I am bipolar, but I don't consider myself 'suffering' from that condition. I have the same IQ that Einstein had. I have better motor skills. Sharper eyesight. I can out-think you at chess or cards. I never studied for college tests, I didn't have to, I had near total recall. And I'm average in my family. My brother's mental acuity goes off of the graph--there isn't a standard to measure him.
So before you insult us as "nuts," consider this. Be greatful this is a republic and not an oligarchy. We'd have you "normals" doing oil changes and cleaning toilets.
Tourist,
No, I wasn't sincere. I used the term "nuts" with regard to the expectation of getting a gun through an airport security check point, which I consider to be an exceptionally unlikely event. Because it is so unlikely to work, I question someone's grasp on reality if they think they can do it successfully. One way to describe people so functionally out of touch is the "nuts" label.
I don't think people who are bipolar, fighting depression, etc. are necessarily out of touch with reality or dysfunctional to the point they should be disarmed. The new tactic of labeling people crazy or "nuts" so their guns can be confiscated is ripe for potential abuse IMO...for me it echoes the incarceration of Soviet dissidents in insane asylums.
It does appear to me we can agree on the fact that Farina had a weapon in his bag and got caught. One can guess why, but nobody knows for sure and I doubt anyone here thinks they do. We all have opinions about it, and how nice it is we all think differently.
As to you taking offense to my use of the word, that is up to you and perhaps your thinking you understand what is on my mind, which you cannot do with any certainty.
I gave up mind-reading when I got divorced, after realizing I had lived with a woman for 29 years and really didn't know at the end what was real and what wasn't.
Sorry you're offended, but I won't retract my statement based on the foregoing.
I have no problem with people who are successfully coping with their challenges, obeying the laws and living constructive lives. If that is what you are doing, I am proud to make your acquaintenance.
There are other people, depressed, bipolar, whatever, who won't take their meds or otherwise do what they have to do to make the best of their situation...and expect others to pick up after them or tolerate otherwise unacceptable behaviors.
Case in point: very smart employee with a cocaine habit. Really good when not under the influence, but would disappear on benders. Finally got him into a program but he had used up his chances. He would not stay with the program, and refused a urine test after a disappearance. I fired him.
Different times, places and people, similar problems. Some finished the program and stayed clean. Everybody won. Some did not, they had to leave.
Take care.
The Tourist
Moderator
HarrySchell said:
And frankly, that's something that the average TFL member has not had to do. Look at the demographics.
Chances are the average member here is somewhere between 25 and 45 years of age. They probably have some disposable income to even afford the most basic firearms, ammunition or reloading supplies. There is a great probability that the average member here is a hunter, or a wilderness camper--and "outdoors" kind of a guy. They also are fiercely independent and capable, and seldom the last guy picked in softball.
And because they live their lives in this manner they have no real concept of exclusion or derision. Aboutthe worst they have experienced is being called a "redneck" by upper class society.
So let's remember when some new piece of legislation or compulsory requirement takes place--even something as simple as an "earn a buck" program. As they begin to realize they no longer call the shots, their reaction is anger.
Now, imagine a world where you live and support yourself, behave in a lucid manner, have an IQ in at least the top 20% of the population and desire the same freedoms and goals as any other neighbor.
Oh, did I forget something? Yes, I forgot to add that in every move you make, every judgement or belief you proffer, every individualistic choice any other citizen gets, your behavior will always be questioned. Do something avant guarde and they will accuse you of "being off your meds." Show justifiable indignation and you've "gone postal." Demand your share of the same enumerated rights as the drunken, toothless, wife-beating townie passed out next to you and you'll find restrictions adopted for "your own good."
Harry, you're probably a good person. Obviously you're one of the good guys or you wouldn't even bother coming here. And I don't mind you taking an alternative position to mine.
Having said that, unless you are bipolar, you haven't a clue what goes on in my life. The sneers, the knowing glances, the abject fear.
I once got out of a fight simply because I told the guy I was bipolar. I used his fear against him.
Now, back to the debate. This is the way most people take complicated situations and boil them down into simplistic actions. They fish around for a stereotype, and make a snap decision. I do not know if Mr. Farina is guilty, innocent, forgetful, bipolar, on assignment, set up to be framed, smug, hostile, or just profiled due to his celebrity.
But I do know how "snap decisions" feel when made by self-appointed watchdogs of society. Especially when they are wrong in most cases.
JuanCarlos
New member
Maybe the Hollywood crowd isn't a monolithic entity that all thinks the same way and supports the same ideals. There are more than a few stars that are pro-gun, they just happen to be the minority. Do we know whether or not Mr. Farina is one of them? Charlton Heston was an actor, after all.
Also of note: the "luggage" in question was a briefcase, so it's again not hard to believe that he regularly keeps the weapon in there, and had forgotten to remove it before heading to the airport. This is not something that is exactly unheard of. Though the fact that the gun wasn't registered doesn't exactly help matters.
HarrySchell
New member
Tourist,
You are right, I really don't have a clue what is going on in your life, but I have been under my own cloud for sometime. I expect many people here have been been dealt setbacks and struggled in some ways. That few here discuss their personal challenges in the detail you do does not mean they haven't been up against a wall.
I bought a company in 03, wife divorced me for it, long story and very unhappy times between us, with me the villain. I am estranged from my siblings, again I am the villain. I was broke (and the company too) by the end of 03 through early 06. We avoided Ch. 11, paid every last dime but some called me a thief and liar while some were more than kind and patient. My kids live far away so I don't see them much, but the emails are friendly and it is always a treat (the old man has learned a lot in the last few years, heh.)
I have to live in CA!
Depressed, well, yah, I been there. Sleep apnea, physical and nervous exhaustion...still not fully right. Right enough to keep moving and doing what I can to make a positive contribution as opportunities arise, clean up my own messes, too.
Started running marathons, not bad for an asthmatic crowding 60. A friend trusted me yesterday with his tricked-out 550-hp race car at Willow Springs Raceway. Sure life could be better, but I am highly blessed compared to a lot of folks. If your life isn't the best, then maybe you need to find the best in the life you have. And laugh at yourself and your predicament.
God still loves you, and if He can love you, knowing all there is about you, then it can't all be so bad, IMO. So stand to and take the hassle with as much grace as you can. By that example, you will touch some people and inspire them in ways you may never hear about, but they will be the stronger for watching you bear up.
So many others don't do their part and blame others. You will be different.
You are right, I really don't have a clue what is going on in your life, but I have been under my own cloud for sometime. I expect many people here have been been dealt setbacks and struggled in some ways. That few here discuss their personal challenges in the detail you do does not mean they haven't been up against a wall.
I bought a company in 03, wife divorced me for it, long story and very unhappy times between us, with me the villain. I am estranged from my siblings, again I am the villain. I was broke (and the company too) by the end of 03 through early 06. We avoided Ch. 11, paid every last dime but some called me a thief and liar while some were more than kind and patient. My kids live far away so I don't see them much, but the emails are friendly and it is always a treat (the old man has learned a lot in the last few years, heh.)
I have to live in CA!
Depressed, well, yah, I been there. Sleep apnea, physical and nervous exhaustion...still not fully right. Right enough to keep moving and doing what I can to make a positive contribution as opportunities arise, clean up my own messes, too.
Started running marathons, not bad for an asthmatic crowding 60. A friend trusted me yesterday with his tricked-out 550-hp race car at Willow Springs Raceway. Sure life could be better, but I am highly blessed compared to a lot of folks. If your life isn't the best, then maybe you need to find the best in the life you have. And laugh at yourself and your predicament.
God still loves you, and if He can love you, knowing all there is about you, then it can't all be so bad, IMO. So stand to and take the hassle with as much grace as you can. By that example, you will touch some people and inspire them in ways you may never hear about, but they will be the stronger for watching you bear up.
So many others don't do their part and blame others. You will be different.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
*a-hem*
I hate to break it to you but most of you know absolutely squat about true discrimination or hatred.
The Tourist
Moderator
I wear many hats, among them LEO and military. I have had to deal with many EDPs over the years, enough to know what i'm talking about when I say that mental people should not have firearms. Yes, its an opinion, borne out by experience. I'm truly sorry that life rolled the EDPs amongst us a bad hand, but many of them simply are too unstable to be trusted with firearms.