Wildalaska
Moderator
La de da
I bet all the folks with their concealed carry permits would disagree.
But hey, we view the world differently. To me it's a wonderful place.
WildicanbuyagunandbeoutofthestoreinlessthanfiveminutesAlaska ™
Democratic Debate - Hillary & Obama on Guns
- Thread starter JWT
- Start date
La de da
I bet all the folks with their concealed carry permits would disagree.
But hey, we view the world differently. To me it's a wonderful place.
WildicanbuyagunandbeoutofthestoreinlessthanfiveminutesAlaska ™
JuanCarlos
New member
Five minutes? Lucky dog. Took me nearly ten minutes last time.
Technosavant
New member
In many states, gun owners have been GAINING rights, not losing. In my native MO, we had one of those idiotic "permit to purchase a concealable weapon" systems. It took special permission from the sheriff's department, $10, and 7 days to buy a handgun. That's gone. We also have one of the best CCW systems in the US (it isn't Vermont or Alaska, but we accept everybody's permits, regardless of residence, and ours is accepted very widely). We also gained castle doctrine last year. Neighboring KS citizens can now purchase NFA items. FL residents have the end all be all of self defense civil protection.
Yes, the states that tend toward nanny statism have continued to do so, but we have been rolling it back in many others.
Unfortunately, the wrong folks at the federal level can wipe it all out with the stroke of a pen, since the feds don't recognize ANY limits on their power anymore.
They don't recognize the limits on federal power because none have been enforced upon them. If no one tells them no, then why should they assume we disapprove? And the 2/3 of the US population living in communist held states is BIG problem. What's worse is that the people in those states do not fight for themselves at all for the most part and simply roll over and accept that they've been overrun.
Madmag,
I won't get in top an argument with you regarding gun rights in certain "liberal" states, but, since 1934, gun rights have improved GREATLY here in Texas. First, the concealed carry law. There was no such thing as a "carry permit" in Texas before 1995-1996. If you were not an LEO, you couldn't legally carry a handgun in public here, period. There was no way for a normal civilian to do so legally. Second, the "traveling law" here has been clarified with an updated law. You used to have to prove that you were going to another county here if you were caught with a loaded handgun "accessible" in your vehicle (thus "traveling", and not just carrying it in your car all the time". That requirement is no linger necessary. Third, is the "castle doctrine" here. It no longer includes a "duty to retreat".
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that things are coming up roses. We have made inroads in certain areas, though.
I won't get in top an argument with you regarding gun rights in certain "liberal" states, but, since 1934, gun rights have improved GREATLY here in Texas. First, the concealed carry law. There was no such thing as a "carry permit" in Texas before 1995-1996. If you were not an LEO, you couldn't legally carry a handgun in public here, period. There was no way for a normal civilian to do so legally. Second, the "traveling law" here has been clarified with an updated law. You used to have to prove that you were going to another county here if you were caught with a loaded handgun "accessible" in your vehicle (thus "traveling", and not just carrying it in your car all the time". That requirement is no linger necessary. Third, is the "castle doctrine" here. It no longer includes a "duty to retreat".
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that things are coming up roses. We have made inroads in certain areas, though.
Fburtgx
I went through the Texas permit program in 1996. I lived in El Paso. It is a good program and was a model for others that wanted to have reciprocity. There are always some good areas, and the program in Texas is an example. But I was mainly speaking of overall since early years. I lived through the older times and there is simply no comparision...at least to me. I remember a time when you could open carry or conceal in most areas without a hassle. The police just didn't care as long as you where not out robbing places. CCW permits are good, but they are in themselves also restrictive.
BTW, since you are in Texas. When I moved to El Paso I went out in the desert shooting with friends. One still lives there. None of us had permits at the time. We just loaded up a pick-up with our guns and went out in the desert. Could have been NM because the state line is just on the west side of El Paso. We had rifles, pistols...more than one each. No one seemed worried about the police. Maybe we were naive, but anyway we were not bothered.
I went through the Texas permit program in 1996. I lived in El Paso. It is a good program and was a model for others that wanted to have reciprocity. There are always some good areas, and the program in Texas is an example. But I was mainly speaking of overall since early years. I lived through the older times and there is simply no comparision...at least to me. I remember a time when you could open carry or conceal in most areas without a hassle. The police just didn't care as long as you where not out robbing places. CCW permits are good, but they are in themselves also restrictive.
BTW, since you are in Texas. When I moved to El Paso I went out in the desert shooting with friends. One still lives there. None of us had permits at the time. We just loaded up a pick-up with our guns and went out in the desert. Could have been NM because the state line is just on the west side of El Paso. We had rifles, pistols...more than one each. No one seemed worried about the police. Maybe we were naive, but anyway we were not bothered.
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Madmag,
I see what you're saying. However, what you mention is not so much of an issue of laws, but an issue of enforcement. I think the same thing could be said about many other activities such as drinking, noise, driving, etc. As the population grows, we seem to lose our common sense and seem to depend more on laws and an unnecessary compulsion to make more laws. In addition, rather than just "look the other way", law enforcement sees the need to crack down on everyone.
I've worked in setting with small numbers of folks, and there wasn't much in the way of rules. You were just expected to do what was "fair and right". I've also worked in settings with lots of people, where there were tons of committees, and everything was a huge bureaucratic mess.
I see what you're saying. However, what you mention is not so much of an issue of laws, but an issue of enforcement. I think the same thing could be said about many other activities such as drinking, noise, driving, etc. As the population grows, we seem to lose our common sense and seem to depend more on laws and an unnecessary compulsion to make more laws. In addition, rather than just "look the other way", law enforcement sees the need to crack down on everyone.
I've worked in setting with small numbers of folks, and there wasn't much in the way of rules. You were just expected to do what was "fair and right". I've also worked in settings with lots of people, where there were tons of committees, and everything was a huge bureaucratic mess.
Wildalaska
Moderator
So what?
WildwhogivesahootAlaska ™
mattamuskeet
New member
Barack Obama=Balack Osama
If just any citizen does not want to salute our flag or show respect by wearing a lapel pin, then that's their right, and even through I don't like it it's a free Country. The problem is that a US Senator and candidate for POTUS is not just any ordinary citizen. I do expect that any Democrat or Republican candidate that expects to lead this country show respect to our flag. I guess you could also say why fly the flag over the White House...same issues and thought process. So, saying why is OK, but I can tell you that it will cost Obama votes, but maybe he is so flush on votes that he feels there is no need to show respect for our flag....but you never know what may come back to haunt you later. Or should I say what chickens may come home to roost.
sw_florida
Moderator
If America is becoming more and more left wing, where do these new voters come from?
1. Immigrants from left wing countries? I don't think so: They fled from left wing politics.
2. People look at regions governed by the Democrats and say, "Hey, crime is down and jobs are up there."? I don't thinks so: Where are those regions?
3. Evolution is weakening the mind of the American people. I think so: Criminals and idiots breed safely in the modern world, and what do we have? American Democrats...
1. Immigrants from left wing countries? I don't think so: They fled from left wing politics.
2. People look at regions governed by the Democrats and say, "Hey, crime is down and jobs are up there."? I don't thinks so: Where are those regions?
3. Evolution is weakening the mind of the American people. I think so: Criminals and idiots breed safely in the modern world, and what do we have? American Democrats...
Wildalaska
Moderator
:barf:
Um I dont quite think this is the place for such childish bigoted screeching. You may want to consider an edit, the mods here are omniscient as well as omnipotent.
I don't equate holding ones hand over one's heart as respect. I don't give a hoot about flag pins. I don't want phony issues to distract from the serious questions raised about Mr. Obama.
WildhesaleftloonAlaska TM