Democratic Debate - Hillary & Obama on Guns

Gun ownership rights are a very important to me. I doubt that any of my current gun uses would come under fire with the exception of CCW. I do see tragic results from any of either democrap as pres! The "free" healthcare for everyone is sure to break our bank. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD why must either one rip off the wealthier? Well to pay for stupid socialist ideals of course!
Brent
 
Oh no?

Quote: "Political fact: The complete prohibition of firearms on a national basis will never occur."

California
Illinois
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Hawaii

That's about 2/3 of the US population that lives in extreme ant gun states, where total gun prohibition is the goal and will eventually be achieved through their own state AWB's, restrictions, "Smart Gun" laws, ammo taxes, gun registration schemes, lead environmental scares, gun buy backs, ammo micro-stamping, and "No Issue" or "May Issue" (essentially no carry) laws, or as in New Jersey's case, everything is outlawed in its entirety, but then they allow its surfs, to own a certain type of gun, by providing exceptions to the total state bans. Unless Americans wake up, even the liberal ones, that the 2nd Amendment is one of the most important rights Americans have, or else the US Supreme Court finally does their job this time, gun rights are under fierce attack for a majority of US citizens and could be lost. Just ask someone from England, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, etc.... It's great that Florida and Arizona are gun friendly, but don't bet on it lasting, with 2/3 of this country convinced it is the guns that kill people, not criminals. Join the NRA, teach your family and close friends that guns are your right that shall not be infringed and vote accordingly.
 
Wild, the main point was,

I agree that guns should not be the only reason you vote or don't vote for a candidate, but if a candidate is that vehement about taking our guns, what other freedoms would they take just as fast?
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I see you chose to ignore that part of my post. :rolleyes:

And you state as FACT:

Political fact: The complete prohibition of firearms on a national basis will never occur.
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Really? Since its a FACT you should have no problem providing some proof for that? (And maybe you could send that proof to people in alot of the states that are quickly moving towards just that)
 
I agree that guns should not be the only reason you vote or don't vote for a candidate, but if a candidate is that vehement about taking our guns, what other freedoms would they take just as fast?
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One has got nothing to do with the other.....

I would rather see their stance on 1st am issues as opposed to the postureing necessary to satisfy interest groups.

Really? Since its a FACT you should have no problem providing some proof for that? (And maybe you could send that proof to people in alot of the states that are quickly moving towards just that)
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Please re read..I said political fact. You guys can yammer all you want about all the idiotic laws in indivdual states but the fact remains that no rational human being bele4ives that we will ever see total firearms prohibitions on a national level.

WildyoushouldseethedumbquestionsihavetoanswerformycanAlaska TM
 
People thought we would never see nationwide prohibition on alcohol either...

Believe me, if they get enough of a foothold, it can and will happen. Its insane and irrational to believe otherwise. I won't put any amount of oppression past a government. Their track records prove otherwise.
 
Please re read..I said political fact. You guys can yammer all you want about all the idiotic laws in individual states but the fact remains that no rational human being believes that we will ever see total firearms prohibitions on a national level.
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Maybe I am irrational, exactly what would you call it if all 50 states are as below? My oldest Son lives in NJ. It's basically impossible to get CCW and they even regulate what type of ammo (No HP'S) you can use for SD. If you want to buy for home use you have to get a permit for each gun ahead of time. For the people living in these states it's the same as a national law.

"Political fact: The complete prohibition of firearms on a national basis will never occur."

California
Illinois
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Hawaii

(BTW, just north of me in Charlotte NC you have to get a separate permit for each pistol purchase, one at a time. I takes about there weeks to get a permit to purchase.)

I think we are hearing a now familiar argument. Yes, Obama and other liberals would restrict your gun rights if they could. But don't worry, so elect them to office because they will never have to power to enact their anti-gun feelings. How about lets not take any chances with my gun rights and not elect the Obama crowd....sounds like a better solution to me!
 
People thought we would never see nationwide prohibition on alcohol either...
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Oh puhleeez. Not even close to relevant.

Believe me, if they get enough of a foothold, it can and will happen
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According to the doomers and gloomers, thats been going on since 1934 and we are for the most part better off gun wise.....

Its insane and irrational to believe otherwise.
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To the inmates in the asylum, the folks on the outside are the crazy ones LOL:p

I won't put any amount of oppression past a government. Their track records prove otherwise.
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Yeah we have no safeguards in the US:rolleyes:

You guys are as bad as the folks on the Daily Kos

Wild30yearsofthesamescreechingisgettingabitmuchAlaska ™
 
My oldest Son lives in NJ. It's basically impossible to get CCW and they even regulate what type of ammo (No HP'S) you can use for SD. If you want to buy for home use you have to get a permit for each gun ahead of time. For the people living in these states it's the same as a national law..
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So? Go back 30 years and see how many states allowed CCW? How about...NY? There was one LOL...not in Texas though...


And further...are folks denied their permits to buy arbitrarily? Does the law allow that? Does a permit equate to a ban?


I think we are hearing a now familiar argument. Yes, Obama and other liberals would restrict your gun rights if they could. But don't worry, so elect them to office because they will never have to power to enact their anti-gun feelings.
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I don't think anyone is aying that...all folks are saying is that there are more benchmarks than guns.

WildwhatabeautifuldayAlaska ™

No worries though...neither of the two "gun grabbers" are remotely qualified to be Presdident...so its a non issue.

I do wish McCain was a bit more progressive though.
 
According to the doomers and gloomers, thats been going on since 1934 and we are for the most part better off gun wise.....
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Wrong. What are your facts? I have been around since the old days. You have got to be kidding. You use to be able to get a CCW by just going down to the local sheriff office and spending $10 bucks. Or, not even get one and carry for SD and no one would say anything. I use to open carry in rural areas all the time, now try and see what happens. We are absolutely not better off gun wise, things are a lot stricter. That's not doom & gloom...just the way it is.
 
I don't think anyone is aying that...all folks are saying is that there are more benchmarks than guns.
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Yes, there are other benchmarks. And on just any old political forum those benchmarks may be what they talk about all the time. But here gun rights are toward the top of the importance list, so answering each criticism of Obama with the mantra that there are other things in life besides gun rights ain't working for me.

Worrying about gun rights is not doom & gloom, it's legitimate concern for our gun rights and it's what what we do here.....well a lot of the time anyway. The real question is why would you or anyone be surprised, given todays politics, to find gun rights concerns being expressed on a gun forum? Most of the time we are not talking about making cookies you know.:confused:

As far as over reaction for gun rights. Maybe we could have used a little of that in the States that was listed in the previous post. It sure appears that under-reaction has not worked very well.

Warning: This is a gun forum and you may hear strong opinions expressed in favor of gun rights.:cool:
 
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madmag, well said.

wild:

People thought we would never see nationwide prohibition on alcohol either...

Oh puhleeez. Not even close to relevant.
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Its relevant because it is something that was once legal everywhere, with no need for licensing for use (like guns were), then it was completely prohibited nationwide, (like guns if they get their way) and no one ever thought in their wildest dreams that it would ever happen.

I'd like to think it CAN, and is LIKELY to happen, and keep up the good fight to see that it doesn't, instead of getting complacent, because, you know, it'll NEVER happen.....isn't that why we carry? cuz we know better than to think it will never happen? ;)

Yeah we have no safeguards in the US
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Yeah Wild, we do have safeguards, until they chip away at them enough to completely remove them.

C'mon Wild, your smarter than that.
 
Its relevant because it is something that was once legal everywhere, with no need for licensing for use (like guns were), then it was completely prohibited nationwide,
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Agree.

States with very restrictive gun laws. The list is getting longer...not shorter.
California
Illinois
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Hawaii
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Add NC just to the north of me. In Charlotte NC you have to get a separate permit for each pistol purchase, one at a time. I takes about there weeks to get a permit to purchase.

Agreed. I don't think it's just looking back on the good old days. But having lived through the 40's to now,it's clear to me that guns rights have become much more restrictive through the years. Take CCW. And many states simply did not address the issue, or they simply did not enforce bans on CCW. The main issue in the 40's-50's was what you did with a gun. As long as it was SD carry nobody cared much. I certainly never worried about having a pistol in my suitcase when staying in hotels when I traveled. Now when I visit our Son in NJ I leave my pistol home. I am afraid to carry even locked up in the trunk.

Overall gun rights have diminished over the years...not increased.
 
Any time you lose a right guaranteed under the BOR, through a process that skirts the amendment process, you have cause for worry. I'd be upset if we lost the 3A prohibitions against quartering soldiers in our homes during times of peace or war. The 3A may sound obsolete, but human ingenuity being what it is, I'm not ready to pitch it on the ashbin of history.

Anyway, as for the thread topic, here's something interesting from the Washington Times today (4/19/08, “Obama vulnerable on firearms issue” S.A. Miller), http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps...80419/NATION/121864374/1001&template=nextpage
The NRA gave an "F" grade to Mr. Obama's and Mrs. Clinton's voting records, which include votes to ban certain types of ammunition and to make firearm manufactures liable for gun violence. Mr. McCain got a "C."

Although Mr. McCain has a strong gun rights voting record, he supports campaign-finance laws that limit political advocacy by issue groups, such as the NRA, and supports tighter firearms sales regulations at gun shows.
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Yeah, I am not happy with McCain's gun rights record, so just imagine how I feel about Obama/Hillary.


Alarmist
Added: Just a final comment (for a while). This deal of telling us gun owners not to be alarmist ain't working. A few years ago NY was about he only state with really restrictive gun laws. Now we have the States listed below. The list is getting longer...not shorter. So, I intend to start being more of an alarmist.

California
Illinois
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Hawaii
North Carolina (due to added permit to purchase pistols in Charlotte area).


I added NC
 
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According to the doomers and gloomers, thats been going on since 1934 and we are for the most part better off gun wise.....
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Wildalska, still waitng for your facts on how we are better off gun wise?
 
Concealed carry
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I kinda figured that. So, you have no facts to support the premise that we are somehow better off gun rights wise than years ago. The reason you have no facts is that we are worse off. Including CCW, which came about due to stricter gun laws...not the other way around. Not to mention that now we have states that require you to get a special permit just to purchase. That's in addition to the normal required background check.

I will add another interesting restriction that has not had much press, but could rear it's head again. I have been involved in some HOA (Home Owner Association) issues in recent times. Doing some research I read a story about a year ago about a sub-division in Florida that tried to add HOA restrictions to not allow guns in private homes within the gated community. It was challenged and stuck down because the rules where not part of the original HOA rules. Maybe it would always be stuck down, but the fact that some have the idea is reason for concern.

Worth repeating:
California
Illinois
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Hawaii

That's about 2/3 of the US population that lives in extreme ant gun states, where total gun prohibition is the goal and will eventually be achieved through their own state AWB's, restrictions, "Smart Gun" laws, ammo taxes, gun registration schemes, lead environmental scares, gun buy backs, ammo micro-stamping, and "No Issue" or "May Issue" (essentially no carry) laws, or as in New Jersey's case, everything is outlawed in its entirety, but then they allow its surfs, to own a certain type of gun, by providing exceptions to the total state bans. Unless Americans wake up, even the liberal ones, that the 2nd Amendment is one of the most important rights Americans have, or else the US Supreme Court finally does their job this time, gun rights are under fierce attack for a majority of US citizens and could be lost. Just ask someone from England, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, etc.... It's great that Florida and Arizona are gun friendly, but don't bet on it lasting, with 2/3 of this country convinced it is the guns that kill people, not criminals. Join the NRA, teach your family and close friends that guns are your right that shall not be infringed and vote accordingly.
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As before I add NC due to having to get a permit just to purchase.

In the 30's, 40's, & early 60's we had fairly free gun rights. You could CCW just about anywhere without bothering about a license. Police just didn't bother you unless you used a gun in a hold-up. You could open carry many places. If our gun rights diminish as much in the next 20 years as they have in the past 20 years then we are in big trouble.
 
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