CZ97 a bad deal getting worse
- Thread starter Brutus
- Start date
I am just a gun owner, and shooter. I have been using guns since the 1970's. I've had, and have firearms from the former Combloc states, Germany, Italy, the U.S., etc. I find guns from Poland, East Germany, the Czech Republic, Russia, etc are for the most part some of the most reliable and accurate pistols made. I have never had a Makarov from any country fail., nor a P-83 or P-64 fail. The CZ's are now stellar, and every bit as good or better than the Sigs.
cougar gt-e
New member
Cz slide stops break frequently enough that competitors keep multiple spares. Seen a couple of them break.
Other than that, they are dern reliable platforms. In my opinion, anyway.
Noticed the OP said he bought it from what he thought was a reputable gun dealer. So because you got a jammer, the dealer is not reputable? How is that the dealers fault? Then I see people saying take it back to the dealer. I've bought troublesome used guns before. I've bought troublesome new guns. But I've never once tried to pass the problem back to the dealer. Dealers are there to sell you stuff, not hold your hand when you can't fix a problem or be bothered to find an alternative solution.
OP made the decision to purchase a used gun at an agreed upon price. The LGS is dying in favor of big box internet retailers and it is in part because of people who want everything for nothing.
OP made the decision to purchase a used gun at an agreed upon price. The LGS is dying in favor of big box internet retailers and it is in part because of people who want everything for nothing.
101combatvet
New member
No not really. A dealer should guarantee the used firearms that he sells, new firearms should be guaranteed by the manufacturer. As a dealer that weapon should have been tested before it was purchased by the dealer. In most cases the dealer will make things right because his reputation is on the line.
Why should the dealer have to eat his profits on already thin margins? Most dealers I've ever known just visually inspect used trade ins. A lot just don't have the area to test fire used guns. You say it should have been tested by the dealer before they bought it. Unless they have an indoor range, how is that even feasible? They're going to spend that much time taking it to a range, checking it out, and then haggling over price with a customer to make a few bucks that they might have to eat later if the person they later sell it to claims it doesn't work right.
You'd probably want some free mags and gear from the dealer too just from having been so inconvenienced.
Again, it's that mentality that is contributing to the death of the LGS. Just about every gun store I have frequented in my state have been "all sales final" as they should be. Used or not. I've had some offer to let the customer try a gun if it was used and if they had the facility to do so. Or offer to help contact the manufacturer. But eff the attitude of just taking it back to the gun store to dump it on them.
You'd probably want some free mags and gear from the dealer too just from having been so inconvenienced.
Again, it's that mentality that is contributing to the death of the LGS. Just about every gun store I have frequented in my state have been "all sales final" as they should be. Used or not. I've had some offer to let the customer try a gun if it was used and if they had the facility to do so. Or offer to help contact the manufacturer. But eff the attitude of just taking it back to the gun store to dump it on them.
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Tactical Jackalope
New member
This and trigger springs. I've also see a few extractors.
Pond James Pond
New member
As it happens, yes.
On what grounds does being placed in a military capacity in one country entitle you to make a judgment on dozens of others you've not been to?
If you feel qualified to pass judgement on Czech Rep, that's your call, but let's leave it at that, eh?
chris in va
New member
As we're having a you-know-what contest, here are a few of my CZ failures the past ten or so years.
Kadet slide: firing pin retainer plate slid down and pin + spring shot backward into the dirt. CZ sent new spring, no issues since. Absolutely no ammo feed failures though.
75BD: Soft factory mag springs, short barrel leade issues with lead bullets.
97b: the most problematic...two barrel bushing failures, barrel lug sheared off, short barrel leade causing hell with my lead reloads. It's still my favorite though.
P01: absolutely zero issues. None. My daily carry and occasional competition gun.
1995 Sig 220: trigger return spring broke. Common issue with the older versions.
Kadet slide: firing pin retainer plate slid down and pin + spring shot backward into the dirt. CZ sent new spring, no issues since. Absolutely no ammo feed failures though.
75BD: Soft factory mag springs, short barrel leade issues with lead bullets.
97b: the most problematic...two barrel bushing failures, barrel lug sheared off, short barrel leade causing hell with my lead reloads. It's still my favorite though.
P01: absolutely zero issues. None. My daily carry and occasional competition gun.
1995 Sig 220: trigger return spring broke. Common issue with the older versions.
Part of the reason I purchased the 97 without hesitation was my other two CZ pistols have been flawless. Both my PCR and 85 Combat have had thousands of rounds through them with nary a hiccup. Only complaint is the serrated trigger on the PCR is rough on the trigger finger after a couple hundred rounds.
In fairness the majority of my experience with CZs is with the PCR and P-01. Maybe it's skewed my opinion because like you I've had good luck with them.
I'm not sure I consider it dumping. I don't think people are advocating that Brutus go to the store, toss the pistol to them, and make a scene. You're right that a lot of stores can't realistically test fire pistols. That said, most lgs in my area give a pretty low percentage on used firearms unless it's in store credit or a consignment. A lot of them have flat out told me that they have better margins on used pistols than new pistols.
A lot of local stores I have seen fail have done so because of poor service and bad business planning more so than customers. I've seen people willing to pay an extra to support local business.
So what's my point? Maybe the store could help Brutus out by tossing it in USPS Priority for him as FFLs can do with handguns. They don't even have to cover the cost of the shipping, the savings between Priority and FedEx or UPS overnight would be something.
LockedBreech
New member
In my own experience most LGSs are dying because the prices and shopping experience are god awful. I'm a pretty nerdy looking guy - well, I'll just own it, I AM a nerd - and I've lost count of the times some Bubba LGS owner has condescended to me about Call of Duty before trying to sell me a $675 XD while his buddies lean on the counter, drink coffee, and rant about Obama. The LGSs who actually have some semblance of service and competitive pricing seem to be doing just fine.
chris in va said:
It is not really a contest it is more a questioning of one persons claims about failures they have witnessed vs what they read on the internet.
Did this happen more than once? Weak CZ springs are a known issue. Did the new spring prevent the issue from occurring again? There was a time when people replaced a lot of the springs in CZs even on NIB guns because of weak springs. It seems like this is a thing of the past I have not seen people reporting spring issues as much in the last 3-4 years like they did in the past.
chris in va said:
Short chamber or tight chamber is a characteristic of CZs. I would not go as far as to call it a defect. If you are reloading all you have to do is adjust your OAL to the chamber and it should shoot lead with no issues. I have had to adjust some 9mm loads to CZ chambers but it IMHO is not a big deal. Adjusting the OAL to the chamber not only helps feeding but increases accuracy. YMMV
chris in va said:
The subject of this thread.
The 97 has always been a bit of a finicky animal. The barrel bushing and barrel problems are well known and documented. It has always been my understanding that CZ is aware of the issues and works with original owners to correct the known problems. This is why I suggested the OP contact CZ directly and see what they can do for him. This is also why CGW offers upgrades on the 97 like their E conversion. http://cajungunworks.com/product/e-conversion-for-cz-97b-bd-625-00/ There are known issues with the design and once they are addressed you have a very nice pistol. This is why I personally would not pay more than $500 for one because eventually sending it off to CGW is something every 97 owner should do. LOL For me personally I skip the 97 because it is too big for my hands.
chris in va said:
This has been my experience as well. I am at about 6,000+ rounds out of mine and it continues to run like a top. It really seemed to smooth out after about 500 rounds.
One issue I did have with it was with the factory grips. The rubber coating came off one of the corners and the metal inside the grip marred the frame. It annoyed me but a little auto paint and new CZ custom grips corrected the issues.
chris in va said:
The spring on P220s can be problematic but most people never fire enough rounds for them to fail. There are other problems with the P220 like rail wear, on newer pistols, rust on the old slides, internal extractors in the stainless steel slides, the change over from the internal to external extractor etc... Any design as old as the P220 will have a few bumps in the road but nothing that would cause you to throw the baby out with the bath waters. If you know the guns history you know which vintages and time frames to avoid and how to correct the minor issues that might pop up.
I guess my line of investigation in this thread was attempting to separate the wheat from the chaff. You clearly have experience with both CZs and Sigs and are able to identify and clarify the issues you have experienced. I can do the same. Others in this thread do not seem to be able to do the same.
I personally believe that CZ makes a good if not great pistol. I loved them back when I could by a 75B or a 75B compact all day long NIB for $300-$350. Those days are long gun but at the same time their offerings, overall fit and finish have improved. You cannot say that about most gun manufacturers these days. IMHO
Pond James Pond
New member
I have never set foot in a US gun shop so can't say if it's deserved or not, but that imagery was so perfectly described that I feel like I've been gun-trading for years!!
Brilliant!!
The shop I bought the gun at has an indoor range used to be a good place before the owner sold it. Now it's become a yuppy haven. Prices are extremely high for new guns and I have regulated it to range only status. When I spoke to the manager about the problems with this pistol he didn't offer to have his gunsmiths look at it, instead he offered me $300 cash or a 20% cinsignment deal. Needless to say he lost a customer that day. Don't even like using their range but it's the closest to home.
Pond James Pond
New member
I'm not familiar with what you mean by a consignment deal, but are you saying that he offered you $300 toward fixing the gun, or he offered to buy it back for $300?
Pond James Pond
New member
Why, the cheeky little.....